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MEAT IS MURDER....


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jades

as for the taste i dont remember except for the fact that when we go to vp2 in new york i wanna throw up because the stuff seems so real. it sucks. wait i think we met maybe rocksteady a while ago, or maybe a hieroglyphics show in Philly (constant elevation/losst unknown ring a bell, fahdayz, frenz, ikon, we came down a bunch with tone bones and crick.???)

that dystopia song kicks ass, and i should follow suit and post some green rage lyrics or something tot hat effect but i just put up a huge tour de france post so the animals can wait.

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Originally posted by boxcarwilly:

when we go to vp2 in new york i wanna throw up because the stuff seems so real.......

Whenever I am in NYC I always eat at these 3 places (along with others)

1.BOTS

2.VP2

3.House of Vegetarian on Mott St...(The hot steakew is faboulous.)

4.Micheal and Zoe's

 

Here is a list of other great vegetarian restuarants I have been too. If you live in the cities listed and haven't been to them... go now!!

1.Veggie Vault - Louisville,Ky (now closed)

2.Kim's Asain Grill - Louisville,KY

3.Soul Vegetarian - Chicago and Atlanta.

4.Harmony Vegetarian Restuarant - Atlanta and DC

5.Some great Chinese restuarant on Cherry St. in Philly.

6.Astro Burger - Los Angeles

7.Faque Burger - San Diego

There are more, but i can't think of them right now....

 

Originally posted by boxcarwilly:

..... i should follow suit and post some green rage lyrics or something tot hat effect

Green Rage!! Ha ha ha ha ha!! Man...I remember them. I used to give Justin such a hard time about being in that band when he was in Ink and Dagger.

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vp2..oh god!!!!

 

as for other cities ill start with mine,

boston

buddha's in chinatown is a cafeteria youll get sick there.

buddhas 2 on harvard ave is better but travel the extra 4 minutes and go to

GRASSHOPPER it is so good, get happy family with battered gluten and extra beef so kick ass.

SLC

evergreen-black pepper steak so kick ass and there is a great tattoo shop across the street BiG DELUXE

park ivy- tho it closed used tohave the staygold special turkey ham bacon and chicken salad mayo and mustard on a roll so vegan so good with soup like 5 bucks.

 

Philly

mom's pizza never been only heard the glories.

cherry street have heard the glories too.

 

other cities i dont know to well. some great spots in la

 

but usually i stick to the bandito vegetarian burger no cheese add guac and bbq sauce at chilis oh yeah ask for curly fries they have em but wont tell you.

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...ok so i am a carnivore, but i have a bunch of vegetarians friends, and have come to like alot of the stuff...never will dig tofu, its just the texture, anyhow, i though you guys would find this quote amusing:

 

"We are care takers of God's creation. We have a moral obligation to treat them humanely, and, when we do slaughter them, to do so in a painless matter"

 

-Burger King Spokesman Bob Doughty, outlining his company's policy toward treatment of animals

 

 

....yes the world is a fucked up place of rationaliztions...r

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...yes i am a carnivore, as in T-REX to the bone, im allergic to photosynthesis...a quote like that and you get hung in semantics, thank you for helping this confused omnivore out, wow talk about expansion...leave me alone im fucking hungover and dont give a fuck about this thread...i only posted that quote for the heads that do...arrrgghhh...you are so intelligent indeed...well einstein, how bout instead of correcting my fucking defintions and status as a meat eater, you do something really prodcutive and give me a fucking hangover cure...rOe

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Guest jarryd

k mental, im not even bothered by your post, im not offended or anything

 

because frankly, i could care less http://www.12ozprophet.com/ubb//smile.gif'>

 

 

-also i hear that tylenol or aspirin helps a headache, and coffee might help you feel a bit more awake? sorry im not exactly an expert, or "einstien" as you said, i just felt it necessary to give my OPINION. sorry if you dont like it.

 

[This message has been edited by jarryd (edited 07-13-2001).]

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Guest jarryd
...ok so i am a carnivore

 

um, dont you mean omnivore?

i think that some people on this board fail to realize that people who eat meat, dont just eat MEAT. i mean to maintain a healthy diet you have to eat the right amount of both meat and vegetables. jesus, this goes back to like grade 2 with the food tables [or whatever the hell they were] eating meat isnt going to kill you, but if you had a steady diet of JUST meat, it would probably turn out quite unhealthy.

 

and the health food stores, i personally think that if a person maintained a healthy, steady diet of both meat and veggies [and bread and dairy stuff] that they wouldnt have to go find pills that would help them make up for the protiens and vitamins that they arent getting from not eating such things.

 

now i dont really care what everyone does with their bodys, vegans eat veggies yay for them and "carnivores" eat meat, yay for them too

 

but im an omnivore http://www.12ozprophet.com/ubb//smile.gif'>

haha and im extremely healthy

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alright personally i do not give a shit what people put into their bodies, the problem lies when i just allow ignorance to go on, killing innocent sentient beings, much like a child rights "enforcer *for lack of another word*" i try to uphold some form of communication with the idiots who think it is their right to kill animals that they think are theirs for food. this is why i preach, i am straightedge but you rarely hear me preach that, because someone pumping drugs into their body doesnt do shit to me (and when it starts to that is when i get angry/preachy) but when it comes to animals someones gotta be their voice similar to children. they cannot speak up.

 

go vegan or die.

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Originally posted by boxcarwilly:

alright personally i do not give a shit what people put into their bodies, the problem lies when i just allow ignorance to go on, killing innocent sentient beings, much like a child rights "enforcer *for lack of another word*" i try to uphold some form of communication with the idiots who think it is their right to kill animals that they think are theirs for food. this is why i preach, i am straightedge but you rarely hear me preach that, because someone pumping drugs into their body doesnt do shit to me (and when it starts to that is when i get angry/preachy) but when it comes to animals someones gotta be their voice similar to children. they cannot speak up.

 

go vegan or die.

 

i dont know exactly how to reply to this. you sit here saying etch armani and high end stores yet. that fake meat bullshit food is like the food version of that high end clothing. i couldnt afford to live off that shit. but if i could im sure i would rather. not that i care if some innocent animal dies, just the fact thatmeat doesnt amuse me that much. and than you people say to rack all your paint and all that does is hurt buissiness that employ people. you know people those things that we are. and when stores go out of buissiness and those employees end up in the welfare line cause you looted the whole store and they were layed off. i dont see you out there handing them money to put food on the table. and than when they get food stamps so they can actually feed thier children. do you think they are going to buy meat which is cheaper and will let them eat or some fake meat labratory made bullshit that will make it so the family doesnt have enough to eat.. and whats wrong with drinking milk its good for you. last time i checked every vegan i had met looked like an poorly nurished heroin addict. im not even going to bother typing out the rest of my arguement its pointless

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If you dont like the taste of meat thats cool.But if you're a vegan to save animals to me thats ridiculous

One question:

why is it when a male lion kills(some times eats) its own cubs so that there is less competiton <--that is considered nature. But when a human being kills an animal to eat or because they dont want to be eaten by that animal<---- thats considered murder?

 

------------------

fuckitwhocares

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Toy oner hit it right on the fucking nose, not to sound like an insensitive anti-animal asshole or anything but there are enough fucked up problems to deal with within our own species to have to worry about animals on top of that. i mean, lions have been ripping the guts out of zebras and shit for thousands of years, are you gonna bitch at them too?

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oh jeez, steal the fake meat if the cost is a problem or get a job. basically the main problem lies in a severely speciesist mentality, that is preached from the minute we are born, that humans are the highest of all species, which is bullshit. all species are equal, tho adapted. humans are no better than a dog or a dolphin, the only thing that differentiates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is a developed sense of logic. argh just read animal liberation by peter singer i dont feel like arguing. go vegan.

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I don't believe in going vegan. We are by birth omnivores, we eat both meat and plants. It's just the way we were born. What i don't like is how we grow animals for eating. That is the only reason i can see someone going vegetarian. Because they wan't to protest the growth and animal abuse that goes on in slaughter houses. But if you are gonna get mad at me for eating meat instead of soy, then get mad at bears for eating salmon instead of berries. Bears can live on berries, but they wouldn't be healthy.

 

"Life feeds on life"

-tool

 

"now timmy, if a cow got the chance he'd eat you and everyone you care about"

-troy mcClure

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Originally posted by boxcarwilly:

oh jeez, steal the fake meat if the cost is a problem or get a job.

 

i have a job and its not that easy for everyone. and theyre you go again. "steal". that way we can put humans out of buissines and save some poor cow or chicken

basically the main problem lies in a severely speciesist mentality, that is preached from the minute we are born, that humans are the highest of all species, which is bullshit. all species are equal, tho adapted. humans are no better than a dog or a dolphin,

 

very true id rather see you get hit by a train than my dog anyday..

 

the only thing that differentiates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is a developed sense of logic. argh just read animal liberation by peter singer i dont feel like arguing. go vegan.

 

why do you care if some animal is breed to be eaten if i was in the desert starving and there was this plump fat bitch out there with me. id slit her throat and have fat bitch burgers

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Guest cracked ass

A few observations...most of which I've made before in other threads.

1.As a meat eater, I didn't expect to like the various fake meat products, but a few surprised me with their accuracy, primarily TVP. A friend of mine made me pasta with TVP in the sauce, and a fake chili, and both were as good as any I've had with meat.

2.On the other hand, the enjoyment of the consumption of highly accurate fake meat products points to a NATURAL taste for meat inherent in humans.

3.The author boxcarwilly cites says humans are just another animal. I agree. So why does he argue the "stewardship" responsibility of not eating animals just because humans are smarter? Lions eat meat. Bears and sharks eat fish...and sometimes humans. Birds and spiders eat bugs. Birds eat other birds' eggs. Cats eat birds and rodents. In fact, some plants eat bugs. NATURE IS NOT KIND OR NICE. Why do vegans hold humans to a different standard? And why is that standard "it's wrong to kill and eat things with a face"? This is why I call veganism more of a religion than a dietary philosophy, because it is based on some arbitrary morality.

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short argument, lets go biological for all the kids saying that humans are omnivores, which is only an adaptation and an unhealthy one at that, humans intestinal tracts are far to long to actually digest meat so the protein courses its way thru the large and small intestine leaving deposits in the folds, resulting most time in a symptom call diverticulitis, and usually ending up in cancer, proportionately a primary omnivore or carnivore has a small fast digestive tract absorbing nutrients quickly and expelling them so they dont rot in their gut. anyone who eats meat i beg you to go get colon hydrotherapy and watch all the green rotten shit come out that you have had caught in the folds of your intestines for years and then tell me we as humans are supposed to consume flesh.

 

small argument.

 

now to the moral arbitration, cracked i do not hold humans to be higher or lower, tho i do think that we posess the capability to feel compassion unlike most other animals and should exhibit that, to those that cannot defend themselves. so much for being arbitrary.

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Guest dBUSH

If anything I believe in not starving to death. Beyond that- its strictly a personal decision. Growing up in the BBQ capital of the world it's hard to not salivate over some brisquet thats been smoking for 24 hours. Whatever- I can sit down to the dinner table with anyone- hunters or gatherers.

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Guest cracked ass
Originally posted by boxcarwilly:

short argument, lets go biological for all the kids saying that humans are omnivores, which is only an adaptation and an unhealthy one at that, humans intestinal tracts are far to long to actually digest meat so the protein courses its way thru the large and small intestine leaving deposits in the folds, resulting most time in a symptom call diverticulitis, and usually ending up in cancer, proportionately a primary omnivore or carnivore has a small fast digestive tract absorbing nutrients quickly and expelling them so they dont rot in their gut. anyone who eats meat i beg you to go get colon hydrotherapy and watch all the green rotten shit come out that you have had caught in the folds of your intestines for years and then tell me we as humans are supposed to consume flesh.

 

small argument.

 

now to the moral arbitration, cracked i do not hold humans to be higher or lower, tho i do think that we posess the capability to feel compassion unlike most other animals and should exhibit that, to those that cannot defend themselves. so much for being arbitrary.

 

Well, now you're in the land of outright bullshit. There's no question that being an omnivore is healthier than being a straight carnivore. The green stuff that lingers in the intestines (if it's green at all), which can be meat residue or doughnuts or other junk food, gets scraped out by high-fiber foods, so the omnivore (the guy who likes a salad with his steak) can be in excellent gastrointestinal health. Also, diverticulitis is a condition in which partial ruptures in the intestinal lining create small balloons or pockets in the outer intestinal wall, which can get infected. Diverticulitis is primarily caused by straining to take a dump - you put too much pressure on a segment of the colon and a little bulge forms (think of an inner tube which has not ruptured yet, but is bulging out of a hole in the outer tire; if the tube bursts, that would be a more serious condition called diverticulosis). If diet is a factor in predisposing people to diverticulitis, it's only because the meat and junk food residue is too ready to stick to the intestinal walls rather than move along. Again, adding vegetables or another fiber source to a meat diet helps scrape that crap out of there, so more support for omnivorism being healthy.

(I'm not sure why I bother. Past experience teaches me that people who are passionate about a moral stance will cite certain facts and suppress others, and generally distort the science and the truth to better support their stance, rather than try to discover the truth.)

i do think that we posess the capability to feel compassion unlike most other animals and should exhibit that, to those that cannot defend themselves.

You have no proof that other animals do not feel compassion. None whatsoever. I have evidence that most do: pick nearly any animal class, and try to separate a mother from her young. See what kind of reaction you get.

My point here is that if animals feel compassion, they reserve it for their own kind. I can feel compassion for other humans - some of them - and that's about it.

Here's where my use of the term "arbitrary morality" comes in. You obviously feel compassion for cows, chickens, fish and possibly many more life forms. The arbitrary part is where you draw the line. Do you feel compassion for rats, leeches, lice, ticks, spiders, carrots, lettuce, soybean plants? YOU KILL AND EAT LIVING THINGS - maybe just the last three, but they are destroyed to keep you alive. As Tool says, "This is necessary...life feeds on life feeds on life."

So where's your line drawn, and what's the rationale? Is it that you should cause no pain, and the only things you'll eat are those that can't feel pain? Even that stance may be flawed. Scientists hooked up a rhododendron to an EEG machine via electrodes clipped to the leaves and monitored the readout. Yelling at the plant caused the needle to waver, and slicing off leaves or holding matches to the plant caused spikes and valleys on the graph, suggesting a sentience in plants. If you trimmed the hedges or mowed the lawn today, you traumatized some plants - outright torture.

Pain, cruelty, violence: these are inextricably built into nature. I find a human's desire to act against what is natural to be, well, unnatural. Like abstaining from sex, or giving up chocolate, or working out at the gym to build muscles that are only ever used for working out at the gym. And most of these weird behaviors are pursued because of a moral stance or religion.

--------------

Anyway, enough rambling. My final word is, don't take this personally. I don't object to your diet or really to your beliefs. I just find them strange, and I am suspicious when people twist science and fit facts to theories.

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