Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
Guest Dr. Drew

War from an Iraqi's perspective

Recommended Posts

damn your so funny tease. ha ha ha ha. yeah, innocents killed in the name of protecting our selfes is so funny. its a joke right? and all the kids dying of disentary (you might have to look this one up i know you have trouble with big words) and cancer is one big sitcom.

tune in to cnn for the next hillarious episode of The Iraq War.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why doesen't whatreallyhappened.com post this article.

 

I was a naive fool to be a human shield for Saddam

By Daniel Pepper

(Filed: 23/03/2003)

 

 

I wanted to join the human shields in Baghdad because it was direct action which had a chance of bringing the anti-war movement to the forefront of world attention. It was inspiring: the human shield volunteers were making a sacrifice for their political views - much more of a personal investment than going to a demonstration in Washington or London. It was simple - you get on the bus and you represent yourself.

 

So that is exactly what I did on the morning of Saturday, January 25. I am a 23-year-old Jewish-American photographer living in Islington, north London. I had travelled in the Middle East before: as a student, I went to the Palestinian West Bank during the intifada. I also went to Afghanistan as a photographer for Newsweek.

 

The human shields appealed to my anti-war stance, but by the time I had left Baghdad five weeks later my views had changed drastically. I wouldn't say that I was exactly pro-war - no, I am ambivalent - but I have a strong desire to see Saddam removed.

 

We on the bus felt that we were sympathetic to the views of the Iraqi civilians, even though we didn't actually know any. The group was less interested in standing up for their rights than protesting against the US and UK governments.

 

I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in Baghdad - a taxi driver taking me back to my hotel late at night. I explained that I was American and said, as we shields always did, "Bush bad, war bad, Iraq good". He looked at me with an expression of incredulity.

 

As he realised I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak in broken English about the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I had only heard the President spoken of with respect, but now this guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil money went into Saddam's pocket and that if you opposed him politically he would kill your whole family.

 

It scared the hell out of me. First I was thinking that maybe it was the secret police trying to trick me but later I got the impression that he wanted me to help him escape. I felt so bad. I told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am not with the UN, I'm not with the CIA - I just can't help you."

 

Of course I had read reports that Iraqis hated Saddam Hussein, but this was the real thing. Someone had explained it to me face to face. I told a few journalists who I knew. They said that this sort of thing often happened - spontaneous, emotional, and secretive outbursts imploring visitors to free them from Saddam's tyrannical Iraq.

 

I became increasingly concerned about the way the Iraqi regime was restricting the movement of the shields, so a few days later I left Baghdad for Jordan by taxi with five others. Once over the border we felt comfortable enough to ask our driver what he felt about the regime and the threat of an aerial bombardment.

 

"Don't you listen to Powell on Voice of America radio?" he said. "Of course the Americans don't want to bomb civilians. They want to bomb government and Saddam's palaces. We want America to bomb Saddam."

 

We just sat, listening, our mouths open wide. Jake, one of the others, just kept saying, "Oh my God" as the driver described the horrors of the regime. Jake was so shocked at how naive he had been. We all were. It hadn't occurred to anyone that the Iraqis might actually be pro-war.

 

The driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want this war." He seemed convinced that civilian casualties would be small; he had such enormous faith in the American war machine to follow through on its promises. Certainly more faith than any of us had.

 

Perhaps the most crushing thing we learned was that most ordinary Iraqis thought Saddam Hussein had paid us to come to protest in Iraq. Although we explained that this was categorically not the case, I don't think he believed us. Later he asked me: "Really, how much did Saddam pay you to come?"

 

It hit me on visceral and emotional levels: this was a real portrayal of Iraq life. After the first conversation, I completely rethought my view of the Iraqi situation. My understanding changed on intellectual, emotional, psychological levels. I remembered the experience of seeing Saddam's egomaniacal portraits everywhere for the past two weeks and tried to place myself in the shoes of someone who had been subjected to seeing them every day for the last 20 or so years.

 

Last Thursday night I went to photograph the anti-war rally in Parliament Square. Thousands of people were shouting "No war" but without thinking about the implications for Iraqis. Some of them were drinking, dancing to Samba music and sparring with the police. It was as if the protesters were talking about a different country where the ruling government is perfectly acceptable. It really upset me.

 

Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising that freedom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Pistol

Why doesen't whatreallyhappened.com post this article.

 

The driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want this war."

 

oh, well if one cab driver says that every iraqi person wants war, i'll go ahead and ignore the fact that 3/4th's of the worlds news agencies are reporting otherwise. that hundreds of iraqi people either still living in iraq, or living outside of it but maintaing ties, claim otherwise. i mean, muhammed the 'gabby iraqi cabby' said it, john the student heard it, it must be true.

 

lastly, whatreallyhappend doesnt post it because it posts news, taken from news agencies, not emails sent by 23 year old students who while there is a war going on, still managed to somehow leave the country at will.

 

er, i mean, 'whatever'... im sure the 754 civillians confirmed dead, and the thousands and thousands wounded are pretty stoked to have us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"war happens"..i fucking hate that argument. it's like saying "oh yeah my mother just got brutally murdered, but hey you know, that kind of thing happens so i'll just let it slide". how would you feel if another country came along and forced you to live a certain way, and decided what your fate would be? i don't even know why i write this, might as well talk to a brick wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay, so i just like to envision a world without as much violence and killing as you seem to think is the norm, that's all. i'm just not into genocide that much. can we still be friends?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well, 750 people hardly makes a 'genocide'... more Kurds died in the gas attacks and that was a deliberate attempt to exterminate them... but...

 

basically, do any of you believe that the average person in Iraq has a real voice? That they are free to voice a dissenting opinion? How can any of you know so much about the realities of life in that country?

 

Just because 3/4's of the world press say's it's true doesn't make it so... doesn't make it wrong either but...

 

The war is NOT going to stop, I don't even why you guys are arguing aout that anymore, now is the time to argue about what the post-war Iraq will be like because one thing is certain...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

weapons of mass destruction discovered = 0

 

http://www.iraqometer.com/

 

 

"Extending the war into Iraq would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Exceeding the U.N.'s mandate would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

 

From "Why We Didn't Remove Saddam" by George Bush [sr.] and Brent Scowcroft, Time Magazine, 1998

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ey Pistol.

The view point from that article is weak. We made Saddam what he is. The father of the president and the people in power right now did that.

He makes the middle east sound like a field trip.

While Saddam is no doubt a coldhearted sociopath in charge of a brutal regime we have financially supported him regardless of sanctions while the Iraqis suffer. We let thousands of Iraqi Shites die and did not take this regime over 10 years ago.

Now while the world goes to shit were fucking over people who have been steady fucked over for the last 23 years.

Right. And cause some journalist heard a bit of truth and got pussy on being a human shield and wrote about it that makes invasion at the expense of the population of Iraq justifiable?

And besidse that, what the fuck was he doing being a shield for Saddam? Shouldnt he have been shielding civilian interests?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smart,

You're right, genocide is definitely a bit strong a word to use for that. I take that back, honestly. But it's like, how do we know it's not going in that direction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by VAITOMANOCU

But it's like, how do we know it's not going in that direction?

 

we don't... that's life... you don't know if you're gonna get hit by a car or win the lottery or whatever... hope, I guess... perhaps a little faith in the fact that while we've sent a whole bunch of people over there armed to the teeth with orders to kill, they're still basically american kids, why are you so willing to accept that these generally normal people (a lot of them reservists) are eager to commit war crimes or oppress a nation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i guess it's just hard for me to see this whole thing leading anywhere but to disaster...of course i can only hope for a better outcome than that but to me it seems unlikely, that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like it or not, the nation of Iraq will soon be subjugated. We will disarm their Nazi-like Baath Party and round up every Iraqi secret police officer we can find, all the senior military and political leadership and all the die-hard idiots that love Saddam Hussein and ship them all to Guantanamo Bay to live in dog cages. Once these assholes are gone, we will establish a military government over Iraq in partnership with LOYAL ALLIES OF THE UNITED STATES (France can go suck dick--ditto with all the other UN whiners who refused to assist us in liberating the Iraqi people) and simultaneously with establishing a military occupation government over liberated Iraq, we will flood the country with food, medicine, blankets, re-establish electric power, drill wells, etc. in order to provide the Iraqi people with at least some semblance of a normal life. I expect that among the first things to happen will be the recruitment of a normal, civilian police force which will probably patrol in conjunction with American military police in establishing order and arresting fleeing Iraqi torturers, military officers, Baath Party officials and so forth. No doubt, the disarming and de-briefing of Iraqi EPW's and their repatriation back into the Iraqi civilian population will begin as soon as hostilities end. Feeding 500,000 EPW's is an expense we can do without.

Immediate clearing of roads and re-establishment of civilian communications, TV service, radio programs and so on, will most likely be through Radio Free America or another organization similar to that, with Iraqi music and news and commentators from Free Iraqi forces. Most Iraqis will probably prefer U.S. military radio stations, especially young people.

Re-building of Iraqi hospitals, clinics, and civilian governmental buildings (especially jails and courts) will no doubt be a top priority. At first, U.S. martial law will be in effect. As soon as a civilian government can be emplaced (with U.S. military government officials looking over their shoulders) they will assist the Iraqis in obtaining appropriate identification cards, registering voters with U.S.-style universal suffrage, and election of municipal and local "county" level officials, who will work in conjunction with U.S. military occupation forces to co-ordinate road clearing, hospitals and public health, delivery and DIGNIFIED distribution of food, assurance of clean, potable water supply, etc.

 

Those Iraqis who cooperate and participate in the establishment of a constitutional government and orderly, democratic one-citizen-one-vote government will be rewarded with a peaceful life. Those who resist and attempt to re-establish Saddam's Nazi Monster government will be shot.

 

Once the country is stable and order has been restored, the U.S. and UK will probably slowly return Iraq to civilian government, after about ten years or so.

 

Nazi Germany was conquered in 1945. It returned to civilian control of the Christian Democrat party in 1955, I believe. We could have killed them all. We could have flattened Germany and let them all starve to death. But we didn't. We rehabilitated the worse, most criminal nation on earth in less than ten years. We can do the same with Iraq, and in less time, probably. Saddam, his sons, all the upper leadership should all be executed. The entired Iraqi Army officer corps should be imprisoned for life in U.S.-controlled prison camps. All Iraqi war criminals should be hanged in public. The U.S. should back the Iraqi currency, so that it becomes at least worth working for. All assets of the Government of Iraq, Saddam's family fortune and those of all the top Iraqi leadership, Baath Party officials, etc. should become property of the Free Government of Iraq, as well as the proceeds from Iraq's oil exports.

Within ten years, Iraq will be similar to Norway, or maybe Poland. A peaceful, prosperous nation that is an ally of the United States and the American people.

 

We can be the best friend they ever had, or the worse, most implacable enemy. Their choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest uncle-boy

hasnt this thread been made like about a million times?

 

we should name the poor little guys already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

whatever Kabar.

 

while thats all well and good for the future, the goverment in place has far to much of relationship with saddam hussein prior that leaves them with a similar amount of blood on their hands.

how can the republican party not have the blood on their hands when they armed hussein?

so while i agree with what you are predicting in the long term, i dont advocate the invasion of a country at the hand of a president in violation of international law under world wide protest in the name of saving lives and safety while killing civilians.

If saddam hussein has blood on his hands from war crimes than surley those who supplied and funded him are equally as guilty. Since the bush reagan administration provided the weapons for the genocide attacks on the kurds, when we execute saddam and company on those war crimes shouldn't we keep it going on down the line?

The Iraqi people make you look like wet panties Kabar.

you did your wartime your military service and your a militiaman, but you aint got nothing on what the Iraqi people have been through.

Your talking about a Nation where 50% of the people are under 15.

My whole take on it is we could have done this way cheaper, way faster and with a no destruction via an internal coup. but the reason we let the last one die and im talking about the murder of 20,000 militia men Kabar- just like you- because they didnt support our interests.

without a doubt Baghdad should have been taken in 91. But trying to take it now is unwise, murderous and has unforseen consequences that perpetuate a world wide war.

fuck that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by oldenglish

If saddam hussein has blood on his hands from war crimes than surley those who supplied and funded him are equally as guilty. Since the bush reagan administration provided the weapons for the genocide attacks on the kurds, when we execute saddam and company on those war crimes shouldn't we keep it going on down the line?

 

WORST ARGUMENT EVER!

 

The Iraqi people make you look like wet panties Kabar.

 

I don't even know what that means, but it's funny...

 

But trying to take it now is unwise, murderous and has unforseen consequences that perpetuate and world wide war.

fuck that.

 

so, somehow you have seen the unforseen? I mean, if it's unforseen then I expect a better suprise than that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

whatever smart.

 

ok we armed saddam and told him it was ok to gas his own people and we bankrolled him for mad long, but now we are just going to take over his country regardless of what the rest of the world says and how many people we kill.

fool thats not an argument, thats the facts.

 

wet pantys is some bitch shit. and if the third world war hasn't started, give it a sec. russia only has what? 3000+ warheads floating around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest uncle-boy
Originally posted by oldenglish

whatever smart.

 

ok we armed saddam and told him it was ok to gas his own people and we bankrolled him for mad long, but now we are just going to take over his country regardless of what the rest of the world says and how many people we kill.

fool thats not an argument, thats the facts.

 

so what do you suggest we do about it?

build a time machine?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by oldenglish

russia only has what? 3000+ warheads floating around?

 

OH SHIT! NO YOU DINT!

 

I FUCKING GREW UP WHEN RUSSIA WAS REAL FOOL!!! WHEN THAT SHIT WAS POINTED AT US ALL DAY EVERYDAY!!! IT WAS ALL ABOUT "THE BUTTON" NOT SOME MOTHBALLED MALFUNCTIONING 30 YEAR OLD SHIT...

 

GO THE FUCK ON, GROWN UPS ARE TALKING!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register for a 12ozProphet forum account or sign in to comment

You need to be a forum member in order to comment. Forum accounts are separate from shop accounts.

Create an account

Register to become a 12ozProphet forum member.

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×