Frate_Raper Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Suki and Austin, I'm first year I get some chesse half assed diplomia with options to go one to grad school when I'm done and what I'm being pushed into right now is this notion of hand rendering is "in" at the momnet and they're saying it will be the RAGE in a few years. So what I'm wanting to know is are you guys seeing this? is air brushing etc being used to the extent I'm being told.I know marker renderings etc for roughs and thumbs is ill but whats up? I've been told about all the hard work and that I'm not going to be blinging in the first 5 but FUCK IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRYBOL Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I went to school for 4 years for graphic design, and found a job shortly after. I guess all I can say is if your really into graphic design, stick it out. I really dont like the job I'm doing but I've learned allot by being out in the field. and I recently started a freelance company where I can go off design wise. as far as salary goes when you go for a interview I would put down at least $30,000 for starting salary. In a year or two it will go up allot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SukiSukiNow Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 When I was in my undergrad program I started dling freelance and all through grad school I did freelance. Why? It fit in perfect with my schedule. I was in school Monday - Sunday either in class, using the computer lab, meeting my instructors, and I was also out of my mind and agreed to be a "mentor" to a group of students. Plus, I was getting student loans and it would have been less if they knew I had a real job. So I would do freelance and not claim taxes and I certainly did not let the school or government know I was getting paid. Secure jobs are nice, but I really had to work around my school schedule, my projects that took me all day and night to finish, and the fucking computer lab. You have plenty of time for a 9 to 5. Although, in undergrad I did work part time as an inern for a small design firm who let me come in basically when I could. As far as styles and trends go, they are always going to change. They come and go. It's a good thing to keep up with what's new and hip but I think it's important to know tradional skills and styles. No matter how much we are dependant on computers you have to know how to do things the tradional way. So Frate, yes, it is important that you know how to render by hand. I still hand draw some type faces and fonts, I still use spray mount sometimes, I still use an exacto knife, I still use my color swatches. My clients were impressed when they were shown hand drawn thumbnails and some wanted left that rough hand drawn style. Sorry I tend to ramble, I'm such a nerd. I get excited talking about design and typography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAustin Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Like Suki said...styles ALWAYS change. Design tends to be the hot minute type of deal. Here today...gone tomorrow. Hand skills will always be in demand. Too many people become too dependent on the computer. It seems to me that a few years after "computer illustration" became mainstream, the backlash started. Hand drawn, markered, painted...whatever just seems to come off better if it was done "real" instead of on a computer. Best example of this would be CGI characters in movies. They look pretty real, even somewhat believable, but something catches your eye and lets you know its CGI. As far as it being the "Rage"....eh one hot minute. I think rough is in right now, how long it stays....who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 jesus, where was this thread when i needed it a couple years ago? not that it really matters, i did my homework before i had myself enlisted.... i went out and hit up every graphics place in the yellow pages, sat them down and chewed off their ears with questions. then i hit up every city in my surrounding area with phone calls to design places and chewed off their ears and vice versa. then i said...fuck graphic design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac ying Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 im commenting here so that i can search myself and look back at it later, thank you goodbye, have a nice time being pretentious, unartistic and broke in a rat race from hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac ying Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 also in the future we can all look back at the death of "graphic design" as having been marked and coinciding and metaphorically represented by the collapse of the world trade center. thank you goodbye.:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SukiSukiNow Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frate_Raper Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR also in the future we can all look back at the death of "graphic design" as having been marked and coinciding and metaphorically represented by the collapse of the world trade center. thank you goodbye.:( I bet this is one of those people that didn't go to art school and yappers on fellas that did because he's scored a few shit jobs making people in the industry photo copies that makes HIM THE ARTIST..................sorry for your complete lack of self cofendice and the fact you feel the need to rip on people that are making bling with out trying to hard. keep your black turtle neck on and keep on sucking at life/.com Thanks for the q and a guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SukiSukiNow Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Check out 3 of my favorite "pretentious" designers: Lucille Tenazas, Herbert Bayer, and Neville Brody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decu goldyn1 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 good thread lots of info here in the fall i start majoring in graphic design i think it'll work for me since the only other thing i want to do is become an a&r and i know the music industry has to be tougher to get in than graphic design Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac ying Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Originally posted by Frate Raper I bet this is one of those people that didn't go to art school and yappers on fellas that did because he's scored a few shit jobs making people in the industry photo copies that makes HIM THE ARTIST..................sorry for your complete lack of self cofendice and the fact you feel the need to rip on people that are making bling with out trying to hard. keep your black turtle neck on and keep on sucking at life/.com Thanks for the q and a guys hey buddy dont get me wrong its a great field filled with authentic people that really have your back. if your gay. hahahahahha bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac ying Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Originally posted by Frate Raper and the fact you feel the need to rip on people that are making bling with out trying to hard. keep your black turtle neck on and keep on sucking at life/.com Thanks for the q and a guys hey buddy come on i love graphic design here ya know im obsessed but its not people who make bling without trying harrd that piss me off its the hoards and masses of assholes who only became artistically inclined at the dawn of photoshop illustrator bla bla people used to be able to make it off their art because they were artists which is hardly possible anymore because of people like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SukiSukiNow Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 It's a damn good thing I have sketch books I have accumulated starting from when I was 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frate_Raper Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR hey buddy come on i love graphic design here ya know im obsessed but its not people who make bling without trying harrd that piss me off its the hoards and masses of assholes who only became artistically inclined at the dawn of photoshop illustrator bla bla people used to be able to make it off their art because they were artists which is hardly possible anymore because of people like you. Come now lets face the music sucker, I'd say about 60% of the kids I gradutated with from art school went on to "make it" may it be meger yet honest money.Reevaluate yourself and your art, yeah alot of suckers are involved in this feild but more people suck at fine art then this shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac ying Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 yeah but know of those 60% who graduated to make that 50% sucked at art. its not my opinion its a fact. most desiners are on a stick figure level but they still think theyre the shit. sorry big guy but its fucking annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 This thread makes me feel happy and discouraged at the same time..I graduated college for illustration with a focus on graphic design.. Ive had shows and Ive sold artwork... Ive done some design work BUT I have almost come to the conclusion that I just dont have what it takes to make it at graphic design. Not because I am not creative or because I dont have the skills....I can draw (after 7 years of life drawing etc I better be able to) its because I cant stand having to sell myself. I hate trying to market myself to other people. And you really need that to make it. Maybe Ill keep it up but these days I'm wishing I had gone to law school aswell. Anyhow Suki thats wicked that you stuck with it and made it. especially in LA...Speaking of LA I might end up there sooner or later as an art director maybe you could hook me up :) I love graphic design. I love drawing BUT Im at a point in my life where I cant waste anymore time fucking arround. I need to start paying my bitch ass loan back and saving money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donniefrisco Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Hey all_ The one thing I learned about the design industry is its not about the education you received, its all about your portfolio. Learn all you can and bring in the knowledge of graff into your design game ( color schemes, balance, structure). The thing you all benefit from is the fact that you already have experience with typography, composition, and color theory. Transfer your knowledge of what you already and apply to your design work. Learn some fundamentals, and lose your ego. Attitude is huge and networking is probably you best in. Its very competitive and it might take you some time landing a cool job. I currently make 70k and am an Art Director, But I didn't start out as that. I landed a production job and worked my way up. My advice is to take any job you can get at a reputable design house and work your way up from there. Make yourself an asset to a company then bring in your skills to show them you more than just a production artist ( which isn't a bad thing -- production can be cool too). Show your stuff to as many people as possible and have fun. Also, a lot of companies are looking for people with the basic skills for print. Someone who can build mechanicals for print. So another thing you might want to learn is not just design, but the production aspect of it. And lastly, just keep designing. Do tutorials and learn as much as you can. The web is a great resource, take advantage of that. word, have fun d Oh about selling yourself...I feel you on that. I didnt want to either. Playing the bullshit game is something I'm not made of. Let other people do that. If your good you wont have to "sell" yourself, or your work. Others will. Then you get to a level of comfortability and speaking about your work wont feel like bullshit to you. Its all about your comfort level and confidence. If you know you are good at what you do, then fuck everyone else. Its a game, but we're all players, shit. Its a hustle, but we;re already hustlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SukiSukiNow Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Originally posted by MESTHREE Suki thats wicked that you stuck with it and made it. especially in LA...Speaking of LA I might end up there sooner or later as an art director maybe you could hook me up :) I love graphic design. I love drawing BUT Im at a point in my life where I cant waste anymore time fucking arround. I need to start paying my bitch ass loan back and saving money. You can have my job when I leave in 2 years to set up my own business. But what's in it for me? Your computer or your soul? I say we start a 12oz Design firm, yeah? As for selling yourself, I know that sucks ass. I hated having to compromise myself and my concept. Believe me, it took a toll on my sanity and I took some time off and got a job as the specialist for a couple of schools. I created and set up art programs (including computer art) for kids. I had so much fun teaching and wouldn't mind at all going back to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frate_Raper Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR yeah but know of those 60% who graduated to make that 50% sucked at art. its not my opinion its a fact. most desiners are on a stick figure level but they still think theyre the shit. sorry big guy but its fucking annoying. AGREED,whats worse is suckers ripping of what your doing.I had that happen alot in the last 2 years,I want to kick the crap out of a few fellas, yes it's silly and immature but I'm not one to stand by and let some one slide thru life while i work my ass off. I want to start a company with some of the guys I paint with almost all of us have some form of post ed in art.It's crazy to sit a read how many kids have gone thru art school or are in art school on here.I'm also shocked when people from this board are in to other things like bussiness a freind of mine from here will be millionare in 5 years I know it. Mes I picked up on that your not down to talk about yourself/ art work...next time were all at a graffiti loser jam we'll sit and listen to people talking about them selfs and we can make fun of them........more then we would normally.The most humble people in our area our normally friends with you and I....think about it for a second it's weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac ying Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Originally posted by Frate Raper It's crazy to sit a read how many kids have gone thru art school or are in art school on here. this says alot. how many kids never would go to art school because art wasnt their shit until "graphic design". alot. obviously ive had some shitty experiences and im generalizing. but theres a ton of crap out there competing to eat, it sucks for those of us who grew up with nothing but art to have to deal with all these other people and BULLSHIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAustin Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 the really annoying thing is that most of these kids can't get a job, so they end up doing freelance work and making entirely more money than they should. I have to fix shit that these dumbasses send us on a daily basis. Suki...12 oz design firm...kinda conjures up visions of Black Market. I'm sure it'd be a fun place to work. I really admire the places that turn down work. Hmmm, you want what? Uh, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frate_Raper Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR this says alot. how many kids never would go to art school because art wasnt their shit until "graphic design". alot. obviously ive had some shitty experiences and im generalizing. but theres a ton of crap out there competing to eat, it sucks for those of us who grew up with nothing but art to have to deal with all these other people and BULLSHIT. Not just graphic students slugger....animation kids piss me off most don't work either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zodiac ying Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 yeah but animation students ive met are just weirdos. same with fine art students. i guess its just art school, the real talent is there its just few and far between. but in a place like fine art it doesnt matter. if you suck you suck who cares. in gd you can suck bad but be buddies with so and so and you got the job and the cream while someone with some serious shit that needs the job and could really do something is nowhere. it holds the field as a whole back. art and graphic design is apples and oranges, but it shouldnt be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseLokE1uno Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 most writers i know that go to school do graphic design, i am in animation because i like working with moving images. and most animation students suck at drawing but that doesnt really matter in this feild, on the other hand the really good drawers come up with the illest models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadawhat Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 don't compromise something you would really enjoy working with the rest of your life for something you think may be initially easier to get a foot in the door and/or make more money. this is something I did but it has now come around full circle. i ended up stopping my engineering studies short of my BS, took a handful of different design classes, figured out the direction i wanted to go. While I still work with engineering at the moment I am now pursuing a degree in industrial design and a career change. I would much rather enjoy my career than be miserable and stable in a job that is ridgid and non-stimulating all to often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frate_Raper Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Originally posted by TRIPLE DECKR yeah but animation students ive met are just weirdos. same with fine art students. i guess its just art school, the real talent is there its just few and far between. but in a place like fine art it doesnt matter. if you suck you suck who cares. in gd you can suck bad but be buddies with so and so and you got the job and the cream while someone with some serious shit that needs the job and could really do something is nowhere. it holds the field as a whole back. art and graphic design is apples and oranges, but it shouldnt be. We could rage a jihad against suckers.............or just kill the comp with skill and wit.Art school is like graffiti alot of fags and chumps and the core back bone of kids that do there thing and wait out in the back. You started off sounding like a dickhead but we got alot in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESTHREE Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Suki, haha you can have my computer :) it stinks Im getting a new one next week! thats interesting that you are into teaching. I also work with a kids program and teach arts and crafts stuff. I have also been trying to start up some art programs at local community centres. Art programming in the downtown area of toronto has taken a hard hit in recent years. I love working with kids. And although I may sound pessemistic I just happened to get a decent freelance job yesterday evening....funny how things work out. Frate, I almost always hate talking about my art. I always feel like such a fag. To me my art is all disposable so after a few days I usually dont give a fuck about any piece (artwork not graff) that I have worked on, as far as Im concerned it can stay under my bed or in the closet with the tones of other shit I dont want to look at. Anyhow you know Im always down for making fun of people :D its one of my favourite passtimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comp Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 currently i'm in school for graphic design and yes there are a lot of people who can't draw to save their soul. and you know what? they can't design for shit either, that just means there's a bigger margin to seperate yourself. the more sht you know how to do the more valuable you'll be in a firm. now all this shit probably isn't true because i'm just a student, but whatever. i love this feild because it's made me so much better at my art because i'm so distanced from it. like i'll put a lot into it, but hwen i'm done very rarely am i attatched to the piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Originally posted by SteveAustin the really annoying thing is that most of these kids can't get a job, so they end up doing freelance work and making entirely more money than they should. I have to fix shit that these dumbasses send us on a daily basis. Heh... that would be me! I majored in industrial design during school, so I learned how to design, and have what I consider to be good graphic design skills in terms of layout, color, typography, etc (well, I still have lots to learn on type)... however, since I learned GD almost entirely on my own and through jobs I did, I'm very much lacking in a lot of the technical aspects of printwork. I got web design down pat pretty good from internships at web studios, but I've never done hardcore print stuff. Now I landed this HUGE freelance gig doing packaging design, and am getting pretty overwhelmed with the technicalities of print (color separations, dot traps, line screens, spot colors, etc.) that I've never learned. I was gonna make a thread asking the hardcore graphic designers here on 12oz (Steve, Suki, Raven, and whoever else could help me out) for hints and tips for delivering fully functional, error free artwork for the printers, cause I don't wanna be one of those freelancing dumbasses that send crap real graphic designers have to fix. Would you guys be down to help me out? Pretty please? Beer, El Mamerro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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