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grittylifer

What about the american girl the idf killed?

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Guest uncle-boy

thats freaking disgusting and wrong. i hope they beat the shit out of the bull-dozer driver.

rip

 

(those pictures look kinda fake)

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its tianamen square, only this image doesn't help the us, so it gets pushed aside. she put her life on the line for her beliefs. I wish more of us did the same.

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serisouly. how is this acceptable. I'd expect to her to get cuffed and dragged off, or removed at gunpoint so they could bulldoze....but this? no.

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the real question is this: did she really have any business going over there to protest that shit? would the palestineans have stopped the bulldozer for her?

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Originally posted by casekonly

the real question is this: did she really have any business going over there to protest that shit? would the palestineans have stopped the bulldozer for her?

 

true true

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man this is sad and horrible.....how can that driver sleep at night ...was the house worth a life :rolleyes:

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Only as much as us invading Iraq to "liberate the Iraqi people and oil".

Bulldozing houses constitutes collective punishment which is outlawed under international law. I would hope that Israel would respect international law as we provide great strength for them and yaddahh yaddah fucking yaddah.

 

Arafat and Rabin signed a peace agreement in 1993. Rabin was the democratically elected leader of the Israeli people and the peace agreement was made with lawfull approval of the Israeli goverment. Rabin was asassinated by a young right wing Israeli radical and Israel was overtaken by a militant right wing violent goverment and the peace agreement was never implemented.

 

And if you add that the fact that Israel has nuclear weapons and violates UN and International law dont you think we should maybe take them over while we are on our campaign of bringing democracy?

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No matter what anyone says, if a bulldozer is coming into the area where you can get hit in the head, get out of the way.

Really.

It seems that dying for your cause has no meaning nowadays.

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Originally posted by T.T Boy

im waiting for someone to yell anti semite.

 

:mad2: "anit semite"

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Just to be an asshole, this girl was in her fifth year I believe at evergreen state community college. Maybe because she had been at a 2 year school 5 years but when large objects with wheels on them come towards you MOVE.

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i cant belive you people are demeaning the death of a young nonviolent peace activist??

this person gave her life for her causes and fought a fucking bulldozer and lost.

follow some links and read some other articles. both the settlers and the palestiniens are victimized by violence. however in retaliation the idf and paramilitarys have killed over 3 times as many palestiniens and bulldoze homes while the native population faces food shortages curfews and 70% unemployment and israeli settlers are behind walls in newly constructed three bedroom homes illegal under international law that your tax dollars pay for.

having lived in the middle east i think you really must see the life over their that people live and you would understand.

my best freind when i was a kid was a palestinien and i grew up with a very jaded veiw twoards israel. however since i have had a veiw on this subject-since like 4th grade- this is the worst i have ever seen it.

its straight up concentration camps, oh im sorry they call them refugee camps? native people living as refugees on their own lands where the actions of a few are retaliated against a whole people?

rahhh....

shit like this makes me grumpy.

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Originally posted by ********

this person gave her life for her causes and fought a fucking bulldozer and lost.

 

and that was her choice

it was her decision to make that stand against a goddamn ARMORED BULLDOZER

and while i can respect a person's commitment to theri beliefs,

i am not respectful of her actions

she knew full well the dangers of protesting in a WAR ZONE

as an educated, dedicated yioung woman, she knew exactly what was happening in Gaza and opted to TAKE THE RISK, and ultimately, she decided to PAY THE PRICE]

 

she has become a mertyr for that cause

that does not entitle her to empathy

she was not an innocent victim, she placed herself directly inside the turmoil

 

it is amazing that people like her are around, and good for them..

but like you said..

she fought a bulldozer ...and lost (no shit?????????)

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but arent you a little bit shocked there was no mention of this in the main stream press?

and what about two weeks ago when on cnn i heard from israel that the war was going to start on thursday?

and what about the peace agreement not being implemented?

and i completely understand why she did it. and im shocked there is not more of an outcry.

its not ok to run people over and kill them because they are in the way of your illegal destruction of someones home.

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Yeah, **********, your right, they are concentration camps the Palestinians are living in. They have it bad, but Im proud of them because they are putting up a HUGE fight with the little guns and bombs they have compared to the 2nd most sophisticated military in hte world, israel.

 

Its too bad the media in the US doesnt cover it, not that the intellectuals dont know, but its all the 95% of the US that has no clue.

 

kids, the importance of Palestine is:

 

1- the holy land

 

2- the holiest site for Christians and Muslims and Jews

 

3- the largest rafugee population in the world comes from Palestine

 

4- the country that has violated the most UN treaties is Israel

 

5- Zionism is not Judaism

 

6- The Jews in Israel have become the Nazis the they hated

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Originally posted by ********

but arent you a little bit shocked there was no mention of this in the main stream press?

and what about two weeks ago when on cnn i heard from israel that the war was going to start on thursday?

and what about the peace agreement not being implemented?

and i completely understand why she did it. and im shocked there is not more of an outcry.

its not ok to run people over and kill them because they are in the way of your illegal destruction of someones home.

 

i heard all about this in mainstream press..

the daily newspaper i usually look at had a huge and informative article about it, with graphic pictures..plenty of statements too, from her old college buddies, fellow protesters, people on the scene, plus the other side..

 

i understand why she did it

i just don't agree, and i don't sympathize

 

recently the county government near my city seized many homes..

it's called 'emminent domain'

it says the u.s. government can take back any land they want any time if they need it

it isn't used very often, but it is used, and people LOSE THEIR HOMES TO THE GOVERNMENT ..when was the last time ANYONE herad abou this happening here, unless it was happening to them???

 

Americans with an interest in humanitarian aid and taking up causes for the downtrodden peoples of the world have a calling they follow..missionaries get killed by rebels in South America OFTEN..and who hears about that??

 

she knew what was going on

she knew the risks

she took the chance and lost

 

it doesnt make me sympathetic to her, or the palestinian people

i know our government is full of ulterior motives and dangerous alliances..

but i won't battle a bulldozer to prove it.

 

i don't feel sorry for her.

 

i am choosing my words carefully tho..

just because i don't feel sorry/empathy/outcry/etc, does not mean i think it was 'ok'

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"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

-- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001.

 

With eyes focused on Iraq, Sharon kills off Palestinian aspirations

The saturation coverage of the war on Iraq continues in the Israeli press and both Tel Aviv tabloids come

out with special, enlarged editions. Yediot Ahronot leads with an assessment that the “threat to Israel is not over,” and Maariv, looking at the war as a whole, says there is “still a long way to go.”

In a Yediot Ahronot editorial, Sever Plotzker writes that “the Jews have never been a bloodthirsty nation,” and cites the Biblical injunction against rejoicing at the defeat of one’s enemy. “Saddam Hussein and his regime hate Israel. If they could, they would not hesitate to bombard us, even with chemical and biological weapons, without any qualms. But we are not them. The difference is in our code of moral values,” Plotzker asserts.

“A Jewish person watching the ‘shock and awe’ bombardment of Baghdad cannot but feel pangs of conscience,” he continues. “Though the targets are Saddam’s palaces and army camps and this is justifiable, thousands of totally innocent Iraqis suffer too. Their lives become a flaming hell. True, all war is cruel and tragic, but acknowledging this must not allow us to become callous, or incapable of feeling empathy for the other.”

Israelis are praying, Plotzker allows, “for a rapid victory of the ‘coalition of the willing.’ Our identification with the goals of the war _ despite the criticism and reservations _ is deep and broad. One of the things the Americans and British are fighting for in the sands of Iraq is our liberty and security and ability to live here peacefully without the perpetual threat to our physical existence.”

Nevertheless, he admonishes: “We must not rub our hands in glee as we see Baghdad in flames. We must not rejoice at the innocent blood spilled in Basra. At these fateful times for the future of the Middle East, we must retain the qualities that have always distinguished the Jews in their 2,000-year battle for survival: humility and compassion.”

Maariv’s foreign editor Arik Becher is not bothered by the “clapping and cheering from the sidelines at the fall of our greatest enemy,” but he warns that soon, “when Saddam’s day is done, America will be the undisputed champion in a world that doesn’t like undisputed champions. Such awesome power invites challengers, as we saw in the abortive performance of France, Russia and Germany in the UN Security Council.”

Still, writes Becher, “for now, when the monster from Baghdad has not yet been defeated, we can only hold thumbs up for our allies and hope they will achieve a speedy victory. And we can only hope that America will not let its power go to its head _ because that’s what usually happens with absolute power.”

In an analysis in Yediot Ahronot, Colonel Shimon Boyarsky, a former head of the Iraqi desk in Israeli military intelligence, argues that at this point in the campaign, Saddam “has no interest in launching missiles at Israel. He is at the outset of a battle to survive in power and to foil America’s plans to oust him. It is therefore unlikely that he will use forbidden weaponry … against either American forces or Israel. He knows this would constitute an admission that he has these weapons, bestowing absolute legitimization on the American war and leading opponents of the American effort, like France and Germany, to join it.”

However, Boyarsky warns, “if and when Saddam feels that his end is near, he may consider using Al-Hussein missiles against Israel. The streak of megalomania in his personality may take over then, and he may want to go down in Arab history as someone who smote the Jews twice _ a kind of second Saladin.”

“But even if he makes such a decision,” Boyarsky reassures his readers, “we can assume that the operational capability of his surface-to-surface missiles to carry out such a mission is somewhere between very low and zero.”

In Maariv, Haifa University Iraq expert Amatzia Baram considers the political and military effects if Saddam and other top Iraqi leaders were indeed killed or wounded in

a targeted American air strike.

“First,” Baram asserts, “it means certain confusion and loss of political direction for the army units, especially in the distant south and north, the areas of command of Izzat Ibrahim and Ali Hassan al-Majid, but also in the center. Without Saddam, the commanders there would be left with Saddam’s son Qusai and Internal Security General Abdelhamid Mahmoud. Those two would be able to handle security and oversee the army, but they have no political authority. Indeed, there is no one in Baghdad today with political authority.”

“Clearly, if Saddam were functioning,” Baram maintains, “he would prevent all those under his control from surrendering. But if he and his two deputies have been badly hurt, there is bound to be a huge political vacuum. That opens the way for a multiplicity of opinions, and a plethora of decision makers. And that is a recipe for chaos. And if Qusai too has been hurt, that would make things even worse.”

Baram contends that, “this situation might bring some of the remaining political leaders to open separate talks with the allies on surrender in return for amnesty. On the military level, commanders of the Republican, Special and Presidential Guards would be more ready to surrender than if they knew Saddam was still around and could have them executed. If loyal party members break, and Saddam’s personal loyalists feel less self-confident, the fighting would take on a different meaning. But for that to happen the officer corps must be sure Saddam and his deputies are badly wounded or dead. For now, they cannot be sure, although they must have their doubts.”

Also in Maariv, Alon Liel, an expert on Turkey and former Foreign Ministry director general, looks at the Kurdish question and its potential regional and global ramifications. “If there is no speedy resolution of the American-Turkish confrontation, the war in the north will quickly turn into a war for Kurdish independence,” Liel writes. “The Americans will find it difficult to oppose an independent Kurdistan _ given the help they are getting from Kurdish leaders Jalal Talabani and Masoud Barzani. Moreover, US President George W. Bush’s public commitment to Palestinian statehood will make it tough for him to oppose Kurdish independence.”

But in Liel’s view, “the price of American readiness for a Kurdish state would be steep: it would be fatal for the historical alliance between Washington and Ankara, a heavy blow to the integrity of NATO, and a serious complication of Israeli-Turkish relations.”

“So how,” he asks, “can this looming crisis be averted? The key is with Ankara, not Washington. Turkey will have to withdraw its objections to an independent Kurdish state, even if that seems impossible in Ankara right now. The US will need Europe’s help in this. Only full European Union (EU) membership will make it possible for Turkey to agree to the establishment of Kurdistan. But it is hard to see the Bush administration’s clumsy diplomacy resolving this soon.”

Columnist and academic Guy Bichor sounds a warning in Yediot Ahronot that the Israeli government may take advantage of the war on Iraq to create faits accompli that would stymie moves toward an agreement with the Palestinians.

“With everyone busy with the Iraqi campaign, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is launching a measure that could constitute a strategic obstruction to any possible solution to the conflict with the Palestinians,” he writes. “Without any public debate, Sharon has announced the building of a 300 kilometer fence, cutting off the populated Palestinian areas on the West Bank from the Jordan Valley.”

Bichor predicts that “funds will probably be found for this eastern security fence and will be built very rapidly, unlike the western one, along the Green Line, for which Sharon claims there is no budget. It would have an irreversible negative impact on attempts to find a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, as it would bite out almost half of the land that is left for a future Palestinian state and wreck any plausible options for a solution in the foreseeable future.”

“The Palestinians would be caged in a long, narrow corridor, and clearly this will only increase their frustration and anger, and prolong the chaotic situation in the territories for years to come,” he continues. “The eastern fence would also cut the West Bank off from Jordan, preventing Palestinian expansion eastwards, and such possible future developments as a Jordanian-Palestinian federation. The only option left to them would be expansion westwards, into Israel. Is this really what we want?”

“Even the western fence, on which there is broad consensus in Israel and which would be a strategic asset,” Bichor remarks, “is undergoing strange and worrying alterations. Instead of creating a principally ethnic separation along the Green Line, with minor diversions, it is being moved further and further eastward, taking in more and more Palestinian villages that will find themselves in Israeli territory.”

“Not only is Palestinian anger at the loss of territory increasing, but some say that over 100,000 Palestinians would be annexed to Israel and become part of a large and angry minority,” Bichor writes.

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