socrates Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 So far from what they are telling and showing it us they haven't tried to hit or have hit any civilian sites, there not even taking some cities for fear of loses of their own and the civilians in the middle. As long as they try not to kill everyone darker than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAITOMANOCU Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 bush is manipulating the media much in the same way that hitler did, just keep that in mind when you are watching FOX and all the other great networks... this is a pretty good source for information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallix Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Originally posted by BROWNer anybody wonder why a 53 year old gun-freak-nurse-man is on a graffiti related site with an age demographic probably averaging between 18 and 25??? you've had 53 years to figure out things are not black and white, but i guess you can't teach an old dog new tricksz. ive come to think hes a propaganda guy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Originally posted by VAITOMANOCU this is a pretty good source for information That most certainly is not... place reeks of bias and non-objectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esai Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 Nicely put Browner, one of the few with intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAITOMANOCU Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 cool...where do you get your info from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_El Mamerro Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 As many different places as I can, and I tend to change sources over times to keep perspectives fresh. All individual sites/channels/stations will lean towards particular sides of issues, only by taking in as many different ones as you can will you have a general understanding of the scope of things, and a better sense of what's true and what's not. There is no such thing as a site with the absolute truth. It's just that a lot of people don't seem to sense that anti-government and anti-war news sites are just as biased and inclined to withhold/manipulate information to fit their purposes than regular corporate media. Oh yeah, and Browner's post gets a big fat http://www.12ozprophet.com/ubb/icons/icon26.gif'>"ding!"http://www.12ozprophet.com/ubb/icons/icon26.gif'>. Beer, El Mamerro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 I'm not even gonna discuss that war anymore...Browner said all there is to be said in the best possible way...if you dont get it, you never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 http://www.terrorismvictims.org/terrorists/bin-laden.jpg'> what? me worry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locofanclub Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 My view for whatits worth. Mr Bush has bitten off more than he can chew.Too many people think the war will be over in no time. THINK AGAIN.The briefings are a joke, with the British saying one thing, the Americans saying another.After day 1, the southern port was taken, by day 4 it still wasnt. Oh and as for friendly fire, f^%k me, their aint nothing friendly bout it. The last Gulf War, the British lost more soldiers to american fire, than to Iraqi, and hey its happening again....Mr Blair, is Bush's puppet,Mr Bush is a oil greedy muppet.. ( Sorry if i offend anyone, but everyone got a view, and this is the forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giving Tree Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 www.drudgereport.com as biasless as it gets.. news, straight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEE_rase_war Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 ......................./´¯/) ....................,/¯..// .................../....// ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯ ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯ ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') ..........................'...../ ..........''............._.·´ ..........................( ........................... ............................ ............................. not another thread about that damn "war" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Doubt seriously you'll remember these exchanges Twenty years from now, when you are looking back on this war, I doubt seriously that you guys will remember me or any of these exchanges. All I can say is that I was fifty times as bitterly against the Vietnam War as anybody on this board, and just as smart-ass about it as any of you. I thought I knew better than any of the adults and I thought Johnson, then Nixon were both fascists, blah, blah, blah. I WAS WRONG. I hated "plastic people" (oh, the surety of one's convictions when young), and the suburbs. Smoking pot was de rigeur, the only music worth listening too was what is now "classic rock" (it was brand new and "revolutionary" back then, of course) and I repeatedly hitch-hiked and rode trains all across the U.S. to attend anti-war rallies, "peace marches" and "Movement gatherings." We danced all around revolution against the Government. We were dead wrong. The most passionate and extreme of my anti-Establishment friends eventually joined various revolutionary groups. Some of them actually were preparing to carry out acts of sabotage and guerrilla warfare against the Government. When I look back upon that time in my life, I ask myself "How could I have been so self-deluded?" The United States is far from perfect. Our leaders are far from perfect. But it is the absolutely best thing going. In Iraq, if the people who posted such anti-government statements on 12 oz. did that in Baghdad or Basra, they would wind up with electrodes on their nuts and their hand in a vise. You guys are so cynical---you just can't see it. It's hard for me to read people's posts who justify the murder and maltreatment of U.S. soldiers. War is hell, for sure. They knew what they were doing when they signed up, one can only suppose. They were "adults"--18, 19, 20 years old. Getting killed in legitimate combat is one thing, but being shot out of hand after capture is another thing altogether. I'm not at all surprised that the Iraqis did it, but I'm kind of surprised that people born and raised in the U.S., who have benefitted all their lives from living here, and who are being defended by those very same soldiers, could write things so cynical, calloused and uncaring. We have thousands of Iraqi EPW's. They are being treated well, they are being given food and water and medical care just like our own soldiers receive. They are being treated with dignity and honor. After the war is over, some of them may wind up wearing the uniform of the New Iraqi Army. I hope the Iraqis get the democratic, constitutional republic that they desire. With luck, they will get it. I yelled about "Revolution" and civil war plenty when I was a kid. Shit, I may live to see it yet. Only this time, I think I may be on the other side of the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esai Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 And Ill be the first one to put 2 right between your blue eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Re: Doubt seriously you'll remember these exchanges Originally posted by KaBar Twenty years from now, when you are looking back on this war, I doubt seriously that you guys will remember me or any of these exchanges. All I can say is that I was fifty times as bitterly against the Vietnam War as anybody on this board, and just as smart-ass about it as any of you. I thought I knew better than any of the adults and I thought Johnson, then Nixon were both fascists, blah, blah, blah. I WAS WRONG. I hated "plastic people" (oh, the surety of one's convictions when young), and the suburbs. Smoking pot was de rigeur, the only music worth listening too was what is now "classic rock" (it was brand new and "revolutionary" back then, of course) and I repeatedly hitch-hiked and rode trains all across the U.S. to attend anti-war rallies, "peace marches" and "Movement gatherings." We danced all around revolution against the Government. We were dead wrong. Originally posted by BROWNer anybody wonder why a 53 year old gun-freak-nurse-man is on a graffiti related site with an age demographic probably averaging between 18 and 25??? you've had 53 years to figure out things are not black and white, but i guess you can't teach an old dog new tricksz. proves the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant_Wood Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Re: Doubt seriously you'll remember these exchanges Originally posted by KaBar Twenty years from now, when you are looking back on this war, I doubt seriously that you guys will remember me or any of these exchanges. All I can say is that I was fifty times as bitterly against the Vietnam War as anybody on this board, and just as smart-ass about it as any of you. I thought I knew better than any of the adults and I thought Johnson, then Nixon were both fascists, blah, blah, blah. I WAS WRONG. I hated "plastic people" (oh, the surety of one's convictions when young), and the suburbs. Smoking pot was de rigeur, the only music worth listening too was what is now "classic rock" (it was brand new and "revolutionary" back then, of course) and I repeatedly hitch-hiked and rode trains all across the U.S. to attend anti-war rallies, "peace marches" and "Movement gatherings." We danced all around revolution against the Government. We were dead wrong. The most passionate and extreme of my anti-Establishment friends eventually joined various revolutionary groups. Some of them actually were preparing to carry out acts of sabotage and guerrilla warfare against the Government. When I look back upon that time in my life, I ask myself "How could I have been so self-deluded?" The United States is far from perfect. Our leaders are far from perfect. But it is the absolutely best thing going. In Iraq, if the people who posted such anti-government statements on 12 oz. did that in Baghdad or Basra, they would wind up with electrodes on their nuts and their hand in a vise. You guys are so cynical---you just can't see it. It's hard for me to read people's posts who justify the murder and maltreatment of U.S. soldiers. War is hell, for sure. They knew what they were doing when they signed up, one can only suppose. They were "adults"--18, 19, 20 years old. Getting killed in legitimate combat is one thing, but being shot out of hand after capture is another thing altogether. I'm not at all surprised that the Iraqis did it, but I'm kind of surprised that people born and raised in the U.S., who have benefitted all their lives from living here, and who are being defended by those very same soldiers, could write things so cynical, calloused and uncaring. We have thousands of Iraqi EPW's. They are being treated well, they are being given food and water and medical care just like our own soldiers receive. They are being treated with dignity and honor. After the war is over, some of them may wind up wearing the uniform of the New Iraqi Army. I hope the Iraqis get the democratic, constitutional republic that they desire. With luck, they will get it. I yelled about "Revolution" and civil war plenty when I was a kid. Shit, I may live to see it yet. Only this time, I think I may be on the other side of the battlefield. ... the difference is that your nuts, and you sound like youve always been nuts. Dont act like you represent all the hippies that have grown up, cause you dont. You sold out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 i'll admit being around the block a few times more than someone else has its respectable advantages... but i'm far from being a kid, you probly think you've got 30-35 years on most of us. you don't, and you can't put this down to age exclusively. your world view isn't necessarily more informed or logical either. granted there are a ton of cringe inducing comments flying around, not all of us are impressionable little zitzo's willing to jock every one of your almost pointless self referencing historical delineations. my generation has to deal with a huge range of very serious issues of insane complexity due to the nearsighted bullshit of your generations management, so lay off the condescending how-dare-you tone. am i grateful for the society i inhabit? yes. should we all just settle down, buck up and spread? i'm still curious why you're even here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken E. Bus Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Huge air attack on Guard planned: report March 24, 2003 BY SCOTT FORNEK STAFF REPOTER The U.S.-led coalition is said to be planning a massive air attack on Republican Guard strongholds around Baghdad today, as ground forces moved to within 50 miles of the Iraqi capital before a sandstorm stalled the advance. Pentagon officials made no comment on the planned air assault, but CNN reported 1,000 air sorties will be launched by day’s end, 80 percent of them seeking out and attacking Republican Guard forces. The Iraqi forces thumbed their nose at the coalition, airing a videotape of Saddam Hussein declaring “victory will be ours soon.” But Gen. Tommy Franks, head of U.S. Central Command, offered a far different assessment, describing the resistance as only “sporadic,” and pledging that the coalition will continue to “fight this on our terms.” “Progress toward our objectives has been rapid and in some cases dramatic,” Franks told reporters at a briefing this morning in Qatar about 8 a.m. Chicago time. The contrasting views of the war in Iraq come amid reports that Iraqi forces shot down two U.S. helicopters, that a U.S. missile hit a bus carrying civilians and that President Bush is preparing to tell Congress Operation Iraqi Freedom could wind up costing as much as $75 billion. British forces suffered their first combat casualty today. ‘Like LaGuardia Airport’ The air attack is expected to intensify, with an estimated 1,000 sorties expected in the 24 hour period ending later today, CNN reported. Of those 1,000, 800 will be carrying their bombs and missiles to the Baghad area seeking out Republican Guard troops. Another 1,000 sorties will fly support missions, assisting ground forces or dropping leaflets to Iraqi troops and civilians. “We’re being told at this base, they are expecting more traffic than ever today,” said CNN correspondent Gary Tuchman, reporting from an allied air base at an undisclosed location along the Iraqi border. As departing F-16 fighter planes roared in take-off behind him, Tuchman said at one point he saw seven combat aircraft lined up on the taxi-way awaiting take-off. “It almost looked like LaGuardia Airport on a busy Sunday afternoon,” Tuchman said. Infantry stalled Howling winds kicked up a brutal sandstorm that stalled the U.S. Army’s 3rd Infantry Division near the Shiite holy city of Karbala, about 50 miles south of Baghdad. With Iraqi forces attacking them from behind, the U.S.-led forces tried to continue their advance on the Iraqi capital. Allied aircraft provided air cover, at one point wiping out a column of charging Iraqi armor and sending other Iraqi troops back toward Baghdad, the Associated Press reported. Iraqi militiamen fired mortars at a supply convoy of Humvees and cargo trucks with the 7th Cavalry Infantry Regiment, but no casualties were reported. In Baghdad, security and police officers dug more trenches around military offices in the heart of the Iraqi capital, as smoke from fires set to conceal targets from bombing hung over the city. Small arms down U.S. choppers In central Iraq, U.S. forces suffered a significant setback. Iraqi forces downed two Apache helicopters and forced 30 others to return to their brigade, using small arms and rocket-propelled grenades. Two crew members were missing, but the other two-person crew was rescued. All 32 helicopters sustained some damage, occasionally slight, Army officials told the New York Times. The resistance comes a day after 10 Marines died in the battle in Nasiriya. Franks confirmed the loss of only one Apache, denying Iraqi reports it had been downed by farmers. “The fate of the crew is uncertain right now,” Franks said. “We characterize that crew, two men, as missing in action.” Fierce fighting was still erupting in southern Iraq. British troops were engaged in artillery exchanges with Iraqi forces on the outskirts of Basra, some of it heavy, British military officials said. British troops have remained outside the city, the second-largest in Iraq, unable to move through it because of pockets of resistance. A British soldier was killed in combat in southern Iraq today, the first British combat death since the war began. The unidentified soldier was killed near Az Zubayr in southern Iraq, British military officials said. A spokeswoman declined to provide further details, but said the soldier’s family had been notified. Sixteen other British servicemen have died in the Persian Gulf, in two helicopter accidents and the downing of a British jet by friendly fire from a U.S. missile battery. Two others were reported missing Sunday after their convoy was attacked in southern Iraq. Saddam predicts victory Appearing in full uniform, an apparently composed Saddam appeared on Iraqi television. ‘‘Iraq will strike the necks [of each enemy fighter],’’ he said. ‘‘Strike them, and strike evil so that evil will be defeated.’’ “Those who are believers will be victorious,” he said. “In these decisive days, the enemy tried not using missiles and fighter jets as they did before. This time, they sent their infantry troops. This time, they have come to invade and occupy your land.” A senior U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity, told AP that intelligence operatives had determined that Saddam’s speech was recorded—but it was unclear when. Saddam did mention specific U.S. military divisions and the “fierce battle” for Umm Qasr that has waged since Saturday, calling it “the mother of all battles.” Syrian casualties A U.S. missile hit a passenger bus on the Iraqi side of the border as it carried Syrian civilians fleeing the war, killing five people and wounding 10, Syria’s official news agency reported today. The bus was transporting 37 passengers when it was struck by the air-to-surface missile Sunday near the border of the two countries, the agency reported. A U.S. Central Command spokeswoman had no information on the report. Syria has strongly opposed the war on Iraq. A Syrian official said the Foreign Ministry had summoned the U.S. and British ambassadors to Damascus ‘‘to protest this appalling aggression.’’ War to cost $80 billion? For months, the White House has refused to put a price tag on the war in Iraq, but today President Bsh is expected to tell Congress it will cost at least $70 billion and possibly as much as $80 billion. Bush planned to provide the estimate to congressional leaders today, ensuring that lawmakers’ discussion of war spending will take place amid a surge of public support for American troops. Aides at the White House and on Capitol Hill said the figure will be between $70 billion and $80 billion. Congressional aides said it will include $62 billion for the Defense Department for the war and perhaps other expenses related to the fight against terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 BROWNer How is it that your slanted-ass, myopic opinions are just perfectly acceptable, by my slanted-ass opinions are so despicable? Being older than the average person on this board doesn't give me any special understanding of world events today, but I enjoyed a bird's-eye view of the so-called Peace Movement back in the '60s, and I think my opinions about it are valid. It was very correctly vilified by the conservatives back then as a COMMUNIST-LED political movement, and it definately was Communist-led. The goals and objectives of the various "anti-war" organizations, from top to bottom, were formed by both open and clandestine communists. Of course, back then, I was all for any kind of anti-capitalist group, being young and stupid. Not that being youth can be equated with being stupid, not at all, because plenty of young Americans were intelligent enough and sophisticated enough to see right through the Communist bullshit, right through to the essentially un-patriotic, DISLOYAL nature of our protest. Once I came to grips with how absolutely wrong I was, I tried to make up for it. I try to console myself with the idea that the military draft was unfair and unpopular, but the bottom line is that anybody and everybody who had the wherewithal to do so was trying to find a way out of it. Can't deny it--I'm ashamed of my behavior then, and with any luck, those people out protesting to preserve the dictatorship of a monster will someday be ashamed too. I enlisted in the Marines, partially because I was no longer a pacifist, partially because I was ashamed of my behavior during the Vietnam War and partially because Jimmy Carter was President and I thought we could probably trust him. I had to recognize that my completely anti-Establishment view was unjustified. Plenty of bad shit had happened, but to despise my own country was throwing the baby out with the bath water. I enlisted, and I demanded Marine Corps infantry. I served my time. I got out--grateful that my time in the Marines was during peacetime. During Desert Storm in 1991, I tried to get back in, but I was over the age limit and they wouldn't go for it. If they'd let me, I'd go back in tomorrow, but the truth is that waging war is a young man's endeavor. I'm way too old, not to mention physically unfit for active duty. I suppose it's easy to say, since I know they wouldn't take me. What I'm doing here is the same thing YOU are doing here--expressing my opinions. I do so in the hopes of reaching the few people on here who might be fence-sitting. I have no illusions about convincing those whose minds are made up. Been there. Nobody could tell me a fucking thing, I had all the answers, and I knew world-wide capitalist ruling-class hegemony when I saw it. I knew racist genocide when I saw it. I knew corporate capitalistic fascism when I saw it. At least I thought I did. And that supposedly corporate fascism has produced a REPUBLICAN government with an African-American Secretary of State, an African-American National Security Advisor, and other people of various races and backgrounds all throughout the Government who are loyal to the nation, and exercising plenty of influence over American policy and political world events. It's not about RACE. It's about POLITICS. It wouldn't matter to the Left if ALL the Administration were black, unless they were also LEFT WING. I've often heard people of generations younger than the Boomers saying that "Nothing interesting ever happens now." Well, now it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 kabar quote:"How is it that your slanted-ass, myopic opinions are just perfectly acceptable, by(but) my slanted-ass opinions are so despicable?" brown quote:"i can't purport to be so informed that i unfailingly believe my own crap." myopic? slanted? i don't think i've really laid my cards out like you have. this is what I’m talking about…there are a lot of good viewpoints, and a lot of garbage ass viewpoints, its not black and white, its not ‘its all oil, bush is hitler’ and its not ‘saddam and al qaeda are one and the same’, but even so, at least one of those is somewhat reasonable. i'm not the guy screaming that this is strictly about oil. i'm not the guy calling bush hitler. i'm not the guy who believes bin laden and al qaeda live in iraq like you do. regardless of whatever you think I think, i'm not too sure how any critical thinker can take in the amount of information available, put it through the grinder, weigh the info and reasonably think that there are more pro's for an $80billion/month pre-emptive INVASION paid for by a fragmented tax paying population where innocent mothers fathers and kids are going to get shredded and burned on both sides than there are cons. <THAT IS NOT MYOPIA by my standards. i'm open to different angles, i make sure to search for them, just not the arrogant trigger happy gung ho bad azz gun totin' muscle flexin' bitch slappin' bomb towel heads thick headed belligerent type of crap some americans pride themselves on becuz ITS NOT REASONABLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pseudoprep© Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 KABAR AND COLT45... Two people I respect. http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Mar/20033208459181178545545.jpg'> And I absolutely LOVE how KABAR used the word Myopic in the last reply. I bet half of you ingrates on here don't even know what that means. Kabar is older and wiser than ALL of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the shitz Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Originally posted by ModelCitizen I Don't consider myself to be anti- or pro-war; ah the nuetrals...... there just so nuetral you dont know what side there on.....kip prepare my space suit. well crash the express ship into the nuetrals main hall thus saving the world of the nuetrals....... i suck ud think id do a better job quoting futurama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 more myopia Originally posted by KaBar It's not about RACE. i've been thinking about this. on the surface it may seem that way, but i don't think so. 9/11 and the resulting patriotism has been the base for the current bush trajectory, and patriotism in my mind is a kind of self glorification, and especially after 9/11 it became this rabid 'we're better than them' dichotomy, which continues, us against them. them being whole populations labelled as 'evil'. the US gov't always plays the moral high ground even though they have some historically bankrupt scruples. the bottom line is innocent death is never acceptable, and it sure as hell isn't 'just', and that goes both ways, from al qaeda using lo-tech and unconventional means, to the united states using an insane military superiority of massive bombing campaigns to communicate to populations, just as al qaeda communicated by using planes as bombs. i suppose there have been times when war is the only answer, but innocent death is never a justifiable by-product of using extreme prejudice, and i don't believe this particular conflict is one of those times. war is organized death. war turns human beings into objects, objects to control or gratify or both. for the population to accept war you have to denigrate the 'target'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pseudoprep© Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Shut your fucking mouth you pussies...right now two of OUR own are terrified. You think their families and friends are thrilled right now? NO. But that doesnt change the fact that they have been captured. They quoted both of the pilots earlier, both responding that they WANTED to go to war and now you PUSSIES are bickering about if we are for or against the war? WHO FUCKIN CARES. Support YOUR troups. They are out there risking THEIR lives and being captured (mostlikely beaten, some tortured and killed) so you can sit on your fat ass and bicker over the internet. If you are so adament about the war ending, support the cause (ANTI-TERROR, and FREEING THE IRAQI PEOPLE from SADAM'S REGIME). Arm yourself with knowledge you retarded highschool dropouts: Iraqi TV Shows Two Men Said to Be Captured U.S. Pilots Monday, March 24, 2003 BAGHDAD, Iraq_—_Iraqi state television on Monday showed two U.S. Army pilots captured by Iraqi forces after their Apache helicopter was forced down during heavy fighting in central Iraq. Gen. Tommy Franks, the U.S. war commander, confirmed that a helicopter did not return from its mission Sunday and that its two-man crew was missing: Chief Warrant Officer Ronald D. Young Jr., 26, of Lithia Springs, Ga., and Chief Warrant Officer David S. Williams, 30, of Orlando, Fla. Monday night, the Pentagon declared the men prisoners of war. The airmen were the second set of POWs displayed by the Iraqis in as many days. On Sunday, the Arab satellite station Al-Jazeera carried Iraqi television footage of five U.S. soldiers who were captured near An Nasiriyah, a crossing point over the Euphrates River. Iraq's U.N. Ambassador Mohammed Al-Douri said Monday his government would allow the International Committee of the Red Cross to visit the prisoners, as called for in the Geneva Conventions. "I can assure you that our religion, our customs, our social values, order us to protect those prisoners and to protect their life," he said in an interview with Associated Press Television News. Some of the soldiers shown on Iraqi television Sunday appeared to be injured, but the men shown Monday did not. The two wore cream-colored pilots' overalls and did not speak to the camera but appeared confused. They turned their heads and looked in different directions while being filmed. One of the men sipped from a glass of water, looking wary but not cowed. The contents of one man's wallet were displayed across a table, including a Texas driver's license, a card from the Fort Hood National Bank, phone cards and credit cards. The helicopter was from the Army's 1st Battalion of the 227th Aviation Regiment, based in Fort Hood, Texas. Military officials said Williams has been in the service for 12 years, and has a wife and two children who live on Fort Hood. Young, an Army man for three years, is single. In her home outside Atlanta, Young's mother said she knew there was a one in six chance her son had been shot down when she saw footage Monday of an Apache helicopter from his unit in an Iraqi field. She recognized the 1st Battalion's "Vampires" insignia on the helicopter, which only five other aircraft have. "I just kept feeling like it was him," Kaye Young told The Associated Press. "I went hysterical. I'm numb now." A few hours later, a chaplain and officer arrived to confirm her fears. Later Monday, the Young family saw Iraqi state television footage showing her son. Young was holding a drink and appeared to be eating a wafer. "I don't think he looked frightened," his mother said. "He looked stubborn, mad. He probably was frightened though." The footage was shown after Iraq claimed it shot down two Apache helicopters and was holding the pilots. "A small number of peasants shot down two Apaches," Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf said. "Perhaps we will show pictures of the pilots." Franks denied that a second chopper had been lost, or that any craft had been shot down by farmers. Iraqi state television showed pictures of one Apache helicopter in a grassy field. Men in Arab headdresses holding Kalashnikovs automatic rifles danced around the aircraft. The station also aired pictures of two helmets apparently belonging to members of the helicopter's crew, as well as documents and other papers lying on the ground. Al-Sahhaf said Iraq would consider displaying the other helicopter it claims to have shot down. He, too, said the POWs would be treated according to the Geneva Conventions and rejected accusations that Iraq had violated such accords by allowing Iraqi television to film them and ask questions.:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 dysfunctional nationalism at its worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest duh-rye-won Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Originally posted by BROWNer dysfunctional nationalism at its worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BROWNer Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 yea, it sucks ass, its really too bad that some good young dudes are getting fucked up, but its really interesting that you can turn this around on the iraqi population and blame them. you've been suckered into this lie, a state syntax jammed down your throats, a myth that you guys are fighting this just, righteous war, this notion of glory. its a bald faced lie and you guys are eating it up. the moral choice has been made up for you by the government, they have provided the syntax and you sit back in your recliner and appropriate it without any filter..and its easy cuz it removes the anxiety of being confused and fucked up over something that is wrong, its easier to chill watching sitcoms and have fun exulting in our own military prowess and ability to mold and shape the world in any way you want no matter what the rest of us think. pick a side, reduce human beings to objects, literally corpses whose lives are beneath your glorious nation and all it stands for. its bullshit. all wars are lies, and you can't suspend the base lie of this war just becuz friendly 'defenders' of our empty disneyland culture are being captured and beat up. what do you expect, you're invading a sovereign country that hasn't done shit to you. and kabar, your little thing on americans being so human to captured enemies is really great, but its a crock. another example of convenient double standards. guess you weren't paying attention to the shit americans were participating in and turning a blind eye to during the afghan invasion huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I don't like assholes or coconut, or coconut assholes, or assnut cocoholes cocoass nutholes are RIGHT OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rectum Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Originally posted by 2BLAZZED i would like to know what your guys opinion on the war with iraq and suddam hussien are...i personally think this is all over the oil...bush's family is filthy rich from the oil business...all he wants is there oil n he knows if he takes out saddam he will give 90 billion diollars to the counrty of iraq to recover...u think he aint getting nothin for that money...and yes we the american people might be safe from nuclear missilies n what not while we r on american soil...but how is that gonna stop a crazy arab wit a bomb on his chest to run in a buildin n blow it up...i see guard dogs n army people every day in grand central station n that all doesnt matter if a suicide bomber comes running in cuz all he has to do is push a button...or how bout if they take a jar full of anthrax n just throw it off a building and wipe out almost a hole city...and why is it that everything u will need to survive a nuclear attack ( gas mask and all that shit) comes out to 6 g's wat about the people barley making a living...they dont matter??...and why is the goverment sleeping on north korea...they got nuclear missiles that can hit the westcoast...nastardamus predicited that the twin towers where gonna get knocked down n they did...he always predicted that half of california was gonna sink n dissapear...n north korea got a missle that can reach cali...so i dont know why they arents taking them as a threat...there more a threat then iraq....thats my opinion about this war..like everything else in this counrty its a scheme.....and money is the route of all evil....what you guys thinks...lets get a nice big thread going here... you are stupid, ignorant and in desperate need of a bullet to the head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rectum Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 you poeple dont realise that this war is going smoothly??? for the same amount of land the american have taken in a few days hundreds of thousands of people would have died in world war two..... you think a handful of casualtie precipricates a shitty war? this is going smooth as pie ....... this is definately a worthwhile conflict by all means. and 2blazzed or whatever you hardcore name is: oil is not the motive for this war, dickhead? use your fucken dead brain fag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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