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ubejinxed

gender differences

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when i was growing up i was always told that men and women are equal and that both genders can accomplish the same things with equal skill. i was a bit of a tomboy/women power type when i was younger, and was always saying things like "shut up i can do that just as well as you or better" or "us women are going to kick your ass". but as i've gotten older i've noticed that genders seem to excel in different fields. maybe it's based purely on desire to do different things, or maybe it's more primitive than that. obviously men are more suited for heavy labor, and i couldn't even front like i was well equipped for that role, nor do i desire to do it. is there an evolutionary reason men are more inclined to be "mr. fix it" or "handy man" (just because they are physically able) or is more societal?

 

i know in younger grades girl children fare better in math and science than their male counterparts but fall off as they get older. this could be that they are less incouraged to follow that path, or that their hormones kick in and their interests follow another path. i definitely think that gender differences are augmented as we get older. maybe not as far as "men are from mars, women are from venus" but that differences are more base than just how we are raised.

 

 

comments/thoughts?

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Guest willy.wonka

you cant do that, cause most of our brain function is focused around our penises..

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see now that's a good start willy....

do you think that it's a fundamental difference that men are always focused on sex and lightening the load? i know some women that are as highly sexed as men, but only in the beginning of a relationship.

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Guest imported_Tesseract

start with the basics...WE THINK IN A DIFFERENT WAY...when i was young i thought that all that 'women are crazy' shit were nonsense..well, its not..i've suffered so much and still havent got the key...i can predict, but i really dont know why.

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Originally posted by Tesseract

start with the basics...WE THINK IN A DIFFERENT WAY...when i was young i thought that all that 'women are crazy' shit were nonsense..well, its not..i've suffered so much and still havent got the key...i can predict, but i really dont know why.

 

i agree, it's interesting to see the way that the genders processes different actions and situations and respond to them. i'm a big proponent of accepting the difference instead spouting the "we are equal tirade"

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Guest imported_Tesseract

You know what? i actually started to think about a decent reply in this thread...i thought of all the differences, in all areas...the weaknesses and high points...trying to hook up an answer is impossible, a little bit of everything is whats different,example: chemically, we have more adrenaline running in the system, thats why we build cars and thats why we're better at driving them, get excited about racing them....whenever i talk to my girl about cars, it all translates to,

"so, you'll pick me up at 9!?"

 

bingo:o

 

btw, the most accurate stereotypical cheapowisdom i ever heard was:

 

the man is the head, and the woman is the neck...

turns the head wherever she wants

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you see that's not necessarily true... i have a greater interest in cars than most men i know. most people think the whole import tuning thing is stupid, but i did that for a while and was really into, speed, stereo etc. went to all the car shows and never found guys that could speak with me about it (my car was stolen after it was all done, and i'm broke now so i stopped)

 

why is it that most top fashion designers are men, why are most top chefs men. these are traditionally female roles but why is it that men excel at them?

 

i think that focus is a big difference i've seen. i will do a bit of a task then move to another, but most guys i know will not be interrupted until said task is complete. maybe it's passion?

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i think that if i paid attention to the matter at hand i would be much more skilled, but i am an inferior driver due to my lack of focus ie: look at the paint scheme on that house, or isn't that a sweet car, or whatever else is passing by.

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Guest Pilau Hands

Acutally, I'm taking a class this semester called Language, sex, and gender. It's a lingutistics class, but crossreferenced with woman's studies. Contrary to what popular culture and media would have me believe, it's not a man-hating class. It basically involves the ways in which language affects our ideas of gender and the society at large, focusing on ways women are taught to use language and how language is used against women.

 

I guess examples of this would be how women, more strictly than men, are taught not to curse. Also, most men will tell you that women are chatterboxes and never shut up, and have high pitched voices which makes them harder to take seriously. The empirical evidence shows that in many common conversations, men do most of the talking and women are the quiet ones. Women don't naturally have higher voices, men have the same, but we learn that it isn't propper for men to use such a high pitch and hold back.

 

There are countless words used negatively for women. I bet we can all name like 25 off the top of our head. There aren't as many for men. Words for women pejurate, or take on negative meanings given to them by the society at large. You can't call someone a Master or a Mistress and have them mean the same thing. Mistress has taken on a sexual meaning. Calling somone a Professional, we think of men in business suits. Female professionals are prostitutes.

 

I think it all goes back to society and as far as I've seen so far, there isn't a lot of evidence enforcing the genetic superiority of men. Since birth, men and women are socialized differently and that results in very different attitudes about the world.

 

btw...In many societies, women actually did just as much manual labor as men.

 

Anyway, I can't go on and on, but I'll come back later becuase I'm interested in this topic.

 

ube, i have a good book for you to read.

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Guest imported_Tesseract
Originally posted by Pilau Hands

 

I think it all goes back to society and as far as I've seen so far, there isn't a lot of evidence enforcing the genetic superiority of men. Since birth, men and women are socialized differently and that results in very different attitudes about the world.

 

 

Its not a matter of superiority, than difference...i can totally understand what you're saying and it has played a big role in everything..still, if you go, lets say to day one you see that...men have more physical power and women breed, if you multiply those 9 months of different roles and responsibilities..add training you may have an answer of some kind.

 

dogs used to be wild

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Guest Pilau Hands

Did you know?

 

Since wolves and dogs are related, there was a study done on why wolves don't bark, but dogs do. It was discovered that wolf cubs actually do bark and it's the adults that don't. It's a sign of being out of power...like making your voice heard. Domesticated dogs aren't in a position of complete power, and have been bred and socialized that way. Dogs bark.

 

At least that's what they said.

 

*reference back to the idea of women talking more.

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If i'm leading this thread into a direction that it wasn't intended to go, then just ignore this.

 

I got into an arguement with a female about whether or not, if the draft is reinstated, females should be eligible. I was arguing that they should not.

 

The basis of my arguement was coming from conversations I've had with my good friend, a female in the US National Reserve (who has just been shipped off to kuwait). She told me all kinds of stories about boot camp and what the army is like and all that jazz. she told me "the strongest, fastest woman is still not as strong or fast as the weakest guy in my company, emotionally or physically." While i'm sure that this isn't true across the board, I agreed with her. I mean I know some butch girls who can out bench press me, and there is no way i'm going to out run some track princess. My friend, however, was hinting at the fact that men (at least the ones she was surrounded by) could handle the emotional stress much, much better than any of the females she knew.

 

I thought that was interesting, coming from a girl and all.

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Guest Pilau Hands

The argument has been made that women grow the child, so they biologically have the "motherly" instincts. But it's men who "plant the seed". In some cultures, boys are taught to take care of the young, not girls. It is the men who are caring and "motherly". Also, it's been shown that men can breast feed in certain situations (strange but true). So some say, having a uterus doesn't make you naturally a good mother anymore than having sperm makes you a good father.

 

There's a biological difference between men and women, but gender is social. It's constructed just like race is...an idea that many often dispute, but well...shit, more later.

 

There's a quote from a textbook i read about Race being the invention of ocean-going transport. See back when people used to walk everywhere, say from europe to china, everything was slow going. There were no marked differences in race, only subtle changes along the way. Think of how the chinese look like the mongolians look like indians look like arabics...It wasn't until you went straight from one place and landed in another that people went WHOA look at the different folks. That one blew my mind.

 

Racism isn't natural either. It's been shown that the first Europeans in Africa marvelled at how civilized and rich in culture the natives were.

 

i like stuff.

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when i worked in the corporate offices of a bank and an insurance company, i would say at least 85% of upper management...team managers and above all the way to the top was female.

 

however....when i was a retail manager, i noticed a lot of age and sex discrimination from a certian bitch of a motherfucking gay district manager. ok, well that wasnt my company...my company was run by mostly female dm's...however it was ironic that my friend was a manager for a womans clothing store and she was constantly discriminated against by a gay district manager. and actually now that i think about it...when she switched stores again she was discriminated against by another male manager on level above her.

id say retail is the worst industry for sexual discrimination.

 

does this make sense?

 

being in the skilled trade field....im relived that all you gotta worry about is the infamous story about the scantily dressed daughter of the client trying to hump the painter..

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i also noticed, that while females retain a large percentage of the crucial management rolls in corporations..ie. dept. managers..team managers..senior vice pres. and what not...there's all ways some slimey corporate dickhead at the top.

 

im all for women managers. but uhh....maybe cause nothing beats having a hot boss.......which would be outright sexist on my part.

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i'll agree that society has an impact on gender differences but i'll still argue that there are base differences beyond just aparent physical traits. i agree with Tesseract that we fundamentally think differently. i also think that as we get older society plays a more important role in how we behave, especially since certain traits and behaviours are more apt to attract the opposite sex, and we all feel the need to procreate. i think that this has a lot to do with how/why society shapes our "norms" in such a way.

 

as for the dog barking being similar to why women talk, i think that is not true. i think that women talk more due to their need to empathize/communicate to feel better and solve issues. men are more apt to solve issues on their own. i talk to my girlfriends at length since that's how i negotiate life/solve problems/work things out, not because i feel inferior.

 

i do agree about the stress thing that Wise brought up. i find that women dwell on the things (talking) that are happening vs men find solutions. i'm a woman and i hate to say that but i'm currently in a situation that totally proves this. i'm not saying that we're inferior, just different

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pilau, you need to come forward with some evidence of men breast feeding, because i'm sure i dont even have to remind youhow ludicrous that sounds.

 

men and women are equal, not because we're all built to do the same things, but because our pros and cons compliment one another. most of that, IMO tends to fall in physical fields. emotional and psychological stuff i think is alot more nutured into us by society and expectations.

 

heres one ive been thinking of alot lately.

 

think of all the people you know who are incredible drawers. not 'artists' per se, but people who can actually sit down and just draw. now think of how many of them are female.

why is that?

lots of women go into 'art' or photography or sculpture or any number of things, and are incredible at it, but how many women do you that can sit down and bang out a still life?

i'm told that my ex's, roomates girlfriend can. (if you get my drift)

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Originally posted by Tesseract

 

bingo:o

 

why the long face?

 

 

bingo makes me laugh my ass off....

 

 

:king:

 

oh, and willy is right...

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Guest Pilau Hands

I'm not writing reasearch on male lactation and all seeking, so i don't think i could at all hold my own or provide bulletproof evidence...so meh

 

http://freebirth.com/milkmen.htm

really strange account...but there it is i guess

as for the dog barking being similar to why women talk, i think that is not true. i think that women talk more due to their need to empathize/communicate to feel better and solve issues. men are more apt to solve issues on their own. i talk to my girlfriends at length since that's how i negotiate life/solve problems/work things out, not because i feel inferior.

sorry if i was unclear, i didn't mean for the dog thing to be an anaology for women. woops

 

At any rate, i don't want to be a windbag about this, but i do think it's an interesting topic.

 

Ube, that book is called Man Made Language by Dale Spender.

Another is Language and Woman's Place by Robin Lakoff.

 

I think the Lakoff book is out of print, but you might find a copy somewhere. It's the book that gets referenced all the time by other books. I have an extra copy of the Spender book if anyone has $5 to spend on it.

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interesting topic

 

I heard something interesting a while back. It has to do with multi-tasking i guess. There was a study done with a group of men and a group of women, where i think they put on headphones and in one ear they heard a recording of one person talking and in the other they heard another person talking. The women were able to remember the majority of both conversations whereas the men were able to totally tune out one voice and give complete attention to only one of the conversations. The men couldn't listen to both at the same time.

 

Im not sure what that boils down to but i foud it interesting none the less.

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Guest deth dealer

looks like u all 4got a major difference girls get a way w/ murder

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