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gabe rock

Patriot Act *breaking news*

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Hey, "Do As Thou Wilt," Pittsburgh

 

When the people are armed, the Government suddenly becomes rather polite. Are the people armed in Iraq? Nope. Guys like you would die screaming in the torture chambers beneath the Ministry of Love, Pittsburgh. Open your eyes, fella. Being all liberal and nice and pacifistic will get you herded into a ditch in front of a bunch of creeps with MP-38's. Best be ready to rock and roll, and it doesn't really matter who the thugs are---whether they are gang banging fuckheads from the next block, monsters from the DEA, thieves from the IRS or some jack-booted ninja from the Homeland Security Department or FEMA. Go ahead--give peace a chance, see how it works out. Some people just gotta learn the hard way. I did--that's why I'm so vocal about it.

 

High School Student Union 1966

Students for a Democratic Society 1967

Unitarian-Universalist Church 1967

War Resister's League 1968

IWW 1969-1976

Conscientious Objector 1969-71

U.S. Marine Corps infantry 1976-1981

Washington State National Guard (tanks) 1984

Texas Constitutional Militia 1994-1998

13th TIR 1998-2000

 

Things change, and people change with them. This is your time to do whatever you think is right, but look^^^ what you think is right today may not always strike you as right. Some day in the future, you may be looking back on it, and think "How could I have been so wrong?" One of the biggest stoners in my high school was drafted, joined the Navy to beat the Draft, was assigned as a gunner's mate on a PBR (Patrol Boat, Riverine) and wound up getting a chest full of medals in the "brown water Navy" in Vietnam. He's still a big stoner. He has doubts about what he did, or rather, what he allowed to happen to him. One of my best friends in the world, back in 1970, has nightmares still today of shooting a fleeing Vietnamese prisoner with an M-60. He tried alcohol, marijuana, heroin, whatever, but he gets no relief. Every night, he's back in the rice paddy with the slicks and the gunships roaring into his LZ.

He's the biggest, most determined liberal I know. But even he acknowledges that he had no control over the events--he was just swept along in the tide. And so are we.

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Re: Hey, "Do As Thou Wilt," Pittsburgh

 

Originally posted by KaBar

When the people are armed, the Government suddenly becomes rather polite.

-------------------

he had no control over the events--he was just swept along in the tide. And so are we.

 

to quote GWAR here... "follow the herd... just another cow..."

call me young and impressionable, sure, whatever the fuck floats your red white and blue nuclear death submarine. swept along in the tide? SWEPT ALONG IN THE TIDE? you're acting as though it's your responsibility to take care of our great leaders' fuck-ups. i bet you have tom ridge on speed dial ready to report any towel-heads or camel jockeys who look at you the wrong way. i think your opinion is void anyway seeing how you readily went and served in the military for all those years. don't even say "oh i got college benefits" or something stupid because you know you enjoyed it, you felt proud defending this great land of ours built on the skeletons of "them stupid Red Skins" and built by tortured, diseased slaves. And you're proud of that? It's disgusting.

i bet the uneducated vagrants in hiroshima and nagasaki who had nothing to do with WWII deserved to die because "they" attacked pearl harbor, right, guy?

 

do me a favor, and move to iraq or afghanistan, start shooting beggar-beaters with all those guns you bought, and await our satellite guided missiles to kill you and everyone you can fucking see. because that will solve everything. right?

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Guest ArtvandaL

NO TO WAR ON IRAQ!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NO BLOOD FOR OIL!

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Guest willy.wonka

see this is all follytricks..

 

i want the governments of the world to fall and mass amounts of people dead, so that the tribes can journey on into that thing called the mind and survival.

 

if anybody can give me all that crap that has been copied and pasted, i might be able to talk about it, but on the other hand, i might just read it later on.

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Guest ArtvandaL

wonka i want you to be a *12oz activist*

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Pittsburgh

 

Unless you are a super-dedicated Communist, which I doubt, I bet that within ten years your views change dramatically. I bet that before you are 26 years old (the cut-off date for enlistment in the armed forces) that you experience a change of heart, and enlist in the military. Maybe not the Marines, like I did (hey, I was extraordinarally unhappy with the choices I had made---a tour in the Air Force or the Navy would have probably been good enough) but I bet before you are too old, you are wearing the uniform of your country.

 

And I did not join for any kind of benefits. I enlisted in the Marines and pretty much demanded "infantry." I joined to learn to fight, and so that I could look in the mirror and say "You did your duty." I'm sure you think that's total bullshit, and since we live in a free country, you are free to think and say, and write, whatever you please. Can't do that in Iraq, though.

 

In 1969, when I was at my most most rabid anarchist revolutionary fever pitch (man, I hated Nixon with a burning passion, beyond anything I've seen on this board so far) I was jungled up with a bunch of hippies and one of them was an older French guy, in his late twenties or early thirties. After listening to me rant and rave about Nixon, the State, "this genocidal war" yadda yadda yadda for about twenty minutes, he asked me what I would do if the U.S. was ever attacked. I drew myself up and sort of self-righteously announced "I'm a pacifist!" He just smiled, put another stick on the fire and said, "You'll fight. When it comes to your home and your family---you'll fight." That's all he said about it.

 

Words of insight from the French. He was carrying a French Army ruck, I've always wondered if he was a French veteran of Vietnam---they were fascinated with the American involvement in Vietnam, and the French national conciousness was a sort of smug "See, even the Americans got their ass kicked." Getting overrun at Dien Bien Phu was a terrible loss to French national pride.

 

Do what you gotta do, but you know what? "You'll fight."

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hey kabar,

 

do you think you needed to go through you radical hippie phase? are you

glad that you did, or would you have rather come into the mindset you

have now, at an earlier age. i guess i am asking if you think there are

actual answers, or if there is just a process....

 

and on another note, i kinda get the feeling that you enjoy "glamorizing"

war, and that bothers me...maybe i am just misreading things tho....

 

yoshy

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MY VIEW ON ALL THIS

 

some of you guys ARE really impressionable, BOTH WAYS, i'm like alot of you on here, i dont watch alot of news, i hear what i hear thru say school or work, my boss being a Army National Gaurdsman,

on alert about to be sent out,

ANYWAY, you peopel scare me, alot of you, kabar, he is intellegent, but he is an extremist,

those ARE worst case scenarios, alot of his phrases and fragments true, main point a little shady

 

a lot of you are reaaaaly to one side here, i dont beleive the vew presented on any of the us news channels, but how smart is it to base your knowledge off of a message board of a bunch of kids caught up in a stream of anti-americanism, i hate bush, hes an idiot yes

 

I dont know all the facts on everything, and neither do all of you, a lot of you will watch the news, or check news articles posted on sites and than blast them to pieces and try and prove them wrong, now look, isn't that a little "weird"?

I like the post where the kid linked to a site that said something about bush being in direct connection to terrorists in iraq or something about his broker having ties to bin laden, while im sure hes got some dirty things going on here and there, like alot of our presidents had, you fools take shit too far

I mean shit, ANYONE can right this shit with NO facts at all,

besides, dont you think the press would be all on his shit about it, go, go ahead and say NOOOO theyre hiding things from us, but thats bullshit, PLUS, hed have no chance in the next elections with that garbage, and we all know it, stop complaining and acting as if you all know what youre talking about, being a rebel is fun yes, but i got bored of it, and im annoyed of hearing it,

chose your side, pick reliable facts, and for gods sakes, stop reading every damn article on google that has to do with the goverment written by 20 something college kids with no full view of whats going on in the world. peace.

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heh, george bush is not an idiot

he knows exactly what he is doing

capitalism will always be on the march towards fascism

thats how it works,

i'm sure you've heard of that poem by the holocaust survivor

"first they came for the communists, and i didnt speak up because i wasnt a communist, etc..."

thats exactly how its working except they're comming for the immigrants first this time

watch your back.

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oh, and as much as i disagree with KaBar politically, i think arming yourselves would be a really good idea

as zapata said

"its better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

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Fair Question

 

Honestly, I think that people (especially men) go through stages of life where they tend to be rebellious and defiant, and then, as they mature, they lose that. Some of us (hey, I'm 52 and I'm still attracted to a board full of teenagers---what does that say about me?) seem to drag it out much longer than others.

 

As for glamorizing war, well, it has to do with imagination, I think. People who disagree with me take the position that the United States is safe, secure and no preparations or individual ability to defend the country is necessary, or even desireable. I was reading posts that were very concerned about the possibility that commercial airliners might be hi-jacked and used as kamikazi planes against soft civilian domestic American targets as far back as 1994. The survivalist and militia guys have always been worried about it, and we discussed it at great length, numerous times, over the years. Nobody in the "straight world" (i.e. non-survivalist, or maybe "anti-survivalist" world) took it seriously at all. We had been worrying and calling for food stockpiling and arming every household for years, but the liberal left, and also the bland middle majority just rolled their eyes.

 

I don't understand how the liberals can be so blind. Can they not see that what stops fascists and night riders and terrorists in their tracks is an armed population? What Ku Klux Klansman in his right mind would even consider night-riding and cross lighting in a black neighborhood today? Shit, they'd be shot so full of holes they'd look like a collander.

 

One thing I never could understand back when I was a young-twenties anarchist is how the Left could be so stupid as to "give away" being armed and combat-ready to the right wing. hel-LO! If anybody needs to be trained and armed, it's the WORKING CLASS. All my so-called revolutionary anarchist buddies had a very limited and unimaginative viewpoint of the world. Basically, they are pussies, and that's the truth. The only fighters I ever met on the left were the anarchist-communists in San Francisco, and even they admitted that they beat up the Trots for the hell of it.

 

As I became aware that I was definately no pacifist, I started saying "What else that I believe is a bunch of nonsense?" Pretty soon I found myself saying "I really do love my country. That black flag doesn't mean shit to me, so why am I going around telling myself that I'm an anarchist?" I wasn't super patriotic when I enlisted, but as I served in the Corps, I sure got that way.

 

So few of us in America have served in the armed forces these days, it's almost a subculture now. I had already done my two year's alternative service as a C.O. When I enlisted, my military obligation was satisfied, I didn't have to do it. Don't you think the Drill Instructors looked at me with a jaundiced eye? They had to know I was a former anarchist. They leaned on me plenty. I wound up as both Platoon Honorman and Series Honorman. I was the best fucking Marine they had seen in months.

War isn't glamorous, it's nasty. Basically, you're talking about legalized homicide, but even in war there are definate rules. Anybody that breaks them, and gets caught, will suffer the consequences.

 

Once you know how to wage war, though, you have a distinctively different understanding of the world.

 

There are 1.8 million members of the armed forces.

There are 4 million members of the NRA.

There are 31 million licensed deer hunters.

There are 70 million American firearms owners.

NO DICTATORS HERE.

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RE: Taliban and the treatment of the population.

 

I'd just like to add a comment for the sake of adding a little info on this subject.

I just finished work on a documentary about a woman's return to Kandaher. She is an Afghan, and a Muslim. I've met and talked with this woman about her story and feel that because she was there, her opinions are extrememly valid. When she was a child, there were pictures of Michael Jackson on the billboards all over the major cities. They drank coca-cola and wore levis. Then the Russian supported a coup in 1978, and started kidnapping and tourturing all their opponents. So the Afghan 'Freedom Fighters' get incredible support from the CIA and approved aid from the american congress. This is all cold-war stragety, and when Mother Russia falls, they retreat from Afghanistan.

The 'Freedom Fighters' have won!

So now what?

 

The Mujahedeen are in control of the counrty, but they are essentially tribal gangs with many guns and stinger missles. There's no real leadership and the US has stoped officialy supporting them. What happens? Well they kill anyone they think is against them in addition to rape, kidnapping, torture, murder and genocide. Many people are aginst these new rulers, and being led by Mullah Omar, they form the Taliban in Pakistan. When the Taliban was originally formed it was considered the less-fundamentalist group. The people needed someone to stop the violence and killing so they looked to Omar and the taliban for help. They take Kabul by force and change the country. At this time the CIA is still seceretly supporting the Taliban because they fear that the Russian supported Uzbek and Tajik groups will try to regain power. These group have come to be know as the 'Northern-Alliance'.

 

then 9-11

 

So all the US intervention goes down and what come from it?

The Taliban and their allies are killed by former russain supporters and former 'freedom fighters'. Too bad that both of these groups also want to kill each other. Essentially all off the evil warlords that were in power before the taliban are back in power. I'm not saying that the Taliban were any better, it's just crazy that killers replace killers who replace killers.

 

any what do the poeple of Kandahar blame on the violence?

The fact that every single grown man has guns!

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on the afghanistan issue

the cats that were in afghanistan who were supported by the soviets were brutal, but compared to the taliban they were long haired flower sniffing hippies

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Kilo 7

 

Good point, and I've got to respect your source, but I do not agree. Sorry. I understand that your friend feels that way, but bottom line, I'm not disarming NO MATTER WHAT, and I'll bet you that the Afghan freedom fighters/communist creeps/ warlords/ CIA shills etc. aren't disarming EITHER. I'm sure it would be a better world if everybody would just be nice, but they won't and so one either prepares or deals with the fact they aren't prepared. If you don't want to, brother it's cool with me. But the woods in the state of Texas are like one huge ammunition dump. This state will not be pacified, man. See what I'm saying?

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Kabar

 

I suppose the difference in our opinion comes from the meaning of being 'armed'.

You can have a shotgun, side arms and even a semi-auto rifle, but it's no where close to what these people are dealing with. The Russians gave relatively simple people assault rifles and land mines. The cia gave even simpler people stinger missles. The escalation just got so far out of hand that everyone was armed to the tits, and terrified of everyone else. That's why the struggle for power went so crazy and why so many people died. If you see two men fighting, dont give one a gun.

That's the major difference.

 

I think that it's totally in your rights to have arms, but I don't think that every american should have to have guns just because their neighbours do. People have owen guns for generations and are very well aware of the consequences. Americans know that if you start firing your guns off, you will probably get shot. Some people dont have the experience. besides, it's easy to make rash decisions when you're starving.

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Re: Fair Question

 

Originally posted by KaBar

(hey, I'm 52 and I'm still attracted to a board full of teenagers---what does that say about me?)

 

it starts with "P" and ends in "edophile"

 

 

no, i'm kidding. you asked for it though.

i don't see how you answer any of my questions or rebutt any of my statements by telling what went down when you were in the marines. if yuo're going to be the proverbial "father" to this 16-year-old, i'd appreciate if you'd actually respond to me.

 

thanks

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no doubt heh, my bad, i was attacking the wrong group of poeple in the wrong thread, i totally agree with being armed, ive got a good start with 3 swords and a bb gun 45 heh, but yeh, im still tired of these extremists, but im ready to arm myself for my freedom, right on kabar

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If you really want to here some good honest media coverage with views from all over the world. There are many sister stations, but 94.1 KFPA in Berkley has some of the best coverage of world events. that station only has a range that can reach people in the Bay Area. but there are other stations across that country the work together and broadcast the same things that KPFA does. its great because the have alot of people(scholars,journalists, human rights activists, civil rigts) so you get a complete story not the junk thats in mainstream media. Its a public funded radio station thats why they can broadcast what they want, without having a large corporation leaning on them about what there content is. peep it , it change the way you look at things. www.kpfa.org

 

the sister stations are: KPFK(LA), KPFT(houston),WBAI(NY),WPFW(DC)

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But here's the tricky part...

 

What is too much ?

 

Obviously if you're sitting on a giant ammo dump

the chances of self-inflicted wounds are goingto rise.

If you've got a gun in every room, well you're not really

all that protected from accidents or quick theifs.

I have a sawed-off baseball bat (dont laugh) behind the door

incase any nutjobs try to come up my stais. I think that's all I'd need.

If anyone with a gun tries to rob my house, then they are probably just

dumb enough to use it.

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iraq is the second largest oil producing country in the world...not that it matters. i honestly don't think it's about oil. russia has potential to produce a shit ton more oil, they just don't have the funds. we have people over there right now trying to find the best place to drill, it won't be long. i think the u.s. is slowly weening itself off of oil from the middle east...

as far as weapons go, our armed forces have some pretty high technology "super weapons" who needs a nuke when you can wipe out the population of a city and leave buildings standing?

who needs missiles when you can shut down their ground control with a digital bomb (will shut down all electricity, and data type devices with an electro magnetic pulse)? we can also cause the "enemy" to wretch and fall onto the ground with super powerful sound waves...inaudible for that matter...gah, who knows what else we have up our sleeves?

as far as the homeland security act part II: i'm scared to death of the first one, the second is 1,000,000x worse...i'm moving to canada...and i'm buying a gun and a wilderness survival book...

here's something interesting you can do: go googling and find out how many nuclear reactors are in the u.s. and find out where the closest one to your house is...and stop using the library computers and checking out books....the feds keep track of what you look at...also, use a proxy on the net...i'm not using one at the moment, but plan to...if you don't know what a proxy is, find out...

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