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TOY

just hatin on mainstream

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i think some of you are hating on mainstream rappers cuz you dont see you favorite rapper with a video. i mean, who wants to have a job and never get up? the key is to get paid without totally selling out like nelly. now eminem i have to admit, rapping about nsync and christina aguilera like anyone gives a shit, kind of sold out, but when you catch him on underground shit its some of the illest shit youve ever heard-ex. hellbound remix on the first gameover. and theres more to add to his resume. jay z is a sick rapper too. yeah hes not keeping it "real" or from the streets cuz he blew up and is making money. hes got new things to rap about. its more like hes telling us theres big things to look up to if you stick to the game. im all about underground hiphop but i do like eminem when hes on point and jayz. i also think dre is a good producer and the neptunes are everywhere now and deserve to be. everything theyre on is a hit and theyre tight.

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i like jay-z, MOP, cash money... underground (for the most part) = white kids who suck.

but hen again im an old jaded hater... fuck it. i like nsyc. i aint hate'n...

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I said it once...I'll say it again. Christina Aguilera looks like twisted sister in that one video with pink and mya. Hahaha Ill never look at her the same. This doesn't have anything to do with anything here...but it is funny

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Guest Remy Martin

thats funny, "the underground=white kids who suck.." thats hella funny...

except not very much of the underground i have encountered is actually white...

Top Ramen and Boac are cool...

but fuck it

i like slayer and eminem so there..hahahahahha

im ruthless, gimme your money

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yeah...its real cool to work 40 hours a week and then blow your paycheck just so you can make a decent demo...thats what i want to be doing the rest of my life...ppppppsssssshhhhhhh...keep your underground

 

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brick, brick ,brick...thats how i be up against your girlfriends ass...

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if your a true artist it dont matter if u dont get paid, if your making music to make money, then u arent an artist and u are creating a product. of course thats not to say dont take money if someone offers, its just when art is sold, its no longer art

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Originally posted by boogie hands:

yeah...its real cool to work 40 hours a week and then blow your paycheck just so you can make a decent demo...thats what i want to be doing the rest of my life...ppppppsssssshhhhhhh...keep your underground

 

...and its extra extra cool to work 40 hours a week and then blow your paycheck just so you can paint a piece.......

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yo fuk the whole deal its about doin what you love to do!! which would you rather do work constrution all day or piece? its the same these cats just got better oppurtunitys for the rap gme. i mean if you got paid to make beats and rhymes then you might feel a little more open to your surroundings in some cases. there are some wak rappers who bling hip hop aint nothing close to cars women crome and borrowing beats/lyrics yo

 

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im a dog and i piss with one leg up

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of course these rappers are doing what they love to do-thats the first thing. its all about the art first. but say you wanted to be a doctor. would you want to get paid minimum wage or get paid what you deserved-a lot of money? either way, its still what you want to do but who doesnt want a lot of money? this has been something i was just thinking about after i saw the gorillaz video, del the funky with a video kinda tripped me out for a second. underground hiphop is what im into.

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Originally posted by brown twinkie:

...and its extra extra cool to work 40 hours a week and then blow your paycheck just so you can paint a piece.......

 

goddamn son...what kind of wage are you working on....id be snatching up the classified pronto....i dont even think thats legal.....

 

 

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brick, brick ,brick...thats how i be up against your girlfriends ass...

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i got beef wit commercial niggas with gold teeth- raekwon

fuck commercial hip hop

 

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jus me and you muthafucka jus me and you...i'll put trade marks around your fuckin eye

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Originally posted by im a big toy oner:

where did you see a del video?

 

the gorillaz video? the group consists of del and the lead singer of blur. its on mtv. hes not accually in it cuz its all animation but hes part of the group. he did all the rhyming. clint eastwood is the name of the song.

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it all depends on what you're in to. seeking made the comment about underground being all about white kids who suck, which was right on. music is all about identifying with the sound and it making you feel a little better, a numbing effect. most white kids don't really understand what slanging is like or how it feels to lose your best friend over some POINTLESS BEEF! so when they listen to that ghetto bass and the shoddy lyrics they're turned off. they can't empathize with that because it's so far removed from their daily lives. the life of the ghetto requires music that can let you get lost in the sounds rather than the lyrical content. when you come home and you realize your life is trapped, that you are trapped you want music that lets you forget it all, you want a beat that can move the house. you don't want to spend 15 minutes figuring out what he means by that one line. white people always like to intellectualize things, bring it away from the heart and closer to the mind. that's what underground is. the music for those that like to flaunt their intelligence. "oh, I'm smart because I caught the double-meaning in that line off the new CoFlow track" blah blah. look at where Rawkus is taking shit; they're completely manipulating the concept of "underground" to feed the egos of all the fools who are anti-establishment just for the sake of being anti-establishment. it's an ingenious plan that will only help blur the line between independent and corporate manipulation. plus, it's owned by the son of fucking rupert murdoch. every sub-culture around has been marketed and targeted by some gigantic machine of a business, your underground is nothing and it never will be more than another part of the mainstream. there is money to be made in commodifying rebellion and as long as this is true there can never be a true sub-culture. long live Debbie Gibson!

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i don't care, the mainstream is for the most part shit. let me just open the envelope a bit wider, beyond just hiphop.

arguably nothing great comes from the mainstream. its not shit cuz people get heard and popular, its shit cuz the mainstream is

a voracious beast that consumes and regurgitates homogenous clones galore, day in and day out. eventually it becomes surplus culture, 50+ bands with the same sound, same song structure, same basic melodies, same moves on stage, same video imagery, same marketing ploy etc.etc.etc. nothing is sacred or special anymore.

real advancements are met in the underground becuz there's no pressure from fans or greedy chumps lookin' out for their wallets. diss it all you want, but thats the real deal. the mainstream is constantly looking to exploit the innocent, sincere creations and use it to dupe the masses into consumerism. now its to the point where we don't have culture thats simply free and just there to be enjoyed without all these schemes for capital gain...its all got to be commodified, and if it isn't, then its deemed worthless(graffiti).

....blah.

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alright, thats a good point and a lot of mainstream hip hop is shit but at the same time there is some good main stream hip hop. de la soul, jay z, the late biggie....i could go on but the fact is that these people have always been mainstream and they are all very talented. production side of things, timberland, neptunes, dre....all very good producers with unique sounds.

"....consumes and regurgitates homogenious clones galore...."

i think that could also aptly describe the state of underground hip hop. there are a lot of very talented artists in the underground but on the flip side there are probably 6 or 7 unoriginal clones to run along side them. im increasingly growing wary of going to the record store, grabbing a huge stack of records and walking out with five or six....its turning into the same shit, especially on the production side of things. i think the reason things are so stagnant is mainly hip hop fans....they seem to be fairly narrow minded and very adament about what is and is not "hip hop". dalik for example, i can guarantee if i asked 10 hip hop kids if they considered dalik "hip hop" they would all say no....i dont mean to sound like a dick but it seems like theres a lot of mindless kids walking around waiting for the underground press to tell them what the next big thing is, what the dope new sound is and if they dont have anyone to tell them a certain thing is hot, its dropped and deemed "not hip hop". how is that kind of attitude going to help progression....the fact is its not because anyone pushing radically different sounds is going to get pushed aside in favor of the more familiar, formulated sounds. think about it....what would have happened if that was the mindset when public enemy came onto the scene....hip hop would have missed out on a very positive growth in its culture.

hip hop fans are very die hard and do not want their culture exploited, rightly so, there has been too much work put into its growth to let corporate america pick it up and whore it out until they are ready to move on to the next thing, but i think as long as the buisness side is kept under tight wraps allowing the artistic freedom that is afforded to an independent artist then cats can safley bridge that gap between "underground" and "mainstream" hip hop. i think rawkus is safley doing that right now, pleasing both sides and still puttting out quality music. i think both sides have their up sides and their downsides and i dont think its fair to say the main stream is all shit when the underground has its fair share as well. heads are just more threated by unoriginality in the mainstream due to the fact that it is viewed as the corporations trying to flood the market as opposed to just an unoriginal independent group. if you really look at the situations are almost the same on both sides of the spectrum, just on different scales.

 

 

 

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brick, brick ,brick...thats how i be up against your girlfriends ass...

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Originally posted by Gouged out 3rd Eye:

of course these rappers are doing what they love to do-thats the first thing. its all about the art first. but say you wanted to be a doctor. would you want to get paid minimum wage or get paid what you deserved-a lot of money? either way, its still what you want to do but who doesnt want a lot of money? this has been something i was just thinking about after i saw the gorillaz video, del the funky with a video kinda tripped me out for a second. underground hiphop is what im into.

 

ive seen that video on a local access channel. everyone has a video now a days, kool keith, quasimoto, lootpack, del...they just dont play them on mtv becuase theyre lyrical styles and beats arent "in". the "in" thing is jay-z rappin about how much money he has, and the bitches he pimps, and the cars he drives...i dont really feel that shit personally...im all about underground, where you can commonly hear about money, bitches and cars, plus more.

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well...its a matter of taste which mainstream hiphoppers are good, but yea, for the most part i agree with what you're saying in the first paragraph...my original spew had some points on the underground as well...its rare that something really interesting or even groundbreaking comes through the underground....but...the hiphop thats independant is whatever, i don't have issue with that, as long as its original...

i disagree that hiphop hasn't been 'whored out' by corporate america though. old hiphop heads like myself have no problem picking up on a bullshit record, but hiphop is so huge now, that girls and boys are kickin' that shit and they don't have the backround that someone like me has, they weren't around when p.e. came out or schooly d was rockin'...i doubt they even think about hiphop as something that should be protected or have integrity. not to mention that they are probably the biggest market out there for these large labels. think about it...they are totally capitalizing on these guys. young people love bad ass rebel type shit that parents can't stand...and what do these rappers do? they fuckin' assault people, pull out guns, call women bitches blahblah...these rap artists are supporting the 'whoring' without even knowing it. again, i'm not saying its all like this, or all mainstream hiphop is this way....but......you also have the will smiths that sell millions of records...none of us would consider that hiphop, or decent anyhow, but yet its making millions of dollars by being sold to little kids as hiphop etcetc..i don't know...this is all just a matter of perception and opinion...go to the local playground and ask some kid what his favourite music is...its hiphop. to me thats a clear indication that its already been whored out. so whats left?

the underground.

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Originally posted by DISCO BRYSO:

it all depends on what you're in to. seeking made the comment about underground being all about white kids who suck, which was right on. music is all about identifying with the sound and it making you feel a little better, a numbing effect. most white kids don't really understand what slanging is like or how it feels to lose your best friend over some POINTLESS BEEF! is that a bad thing? so when they listen to that ghetto bass and the shoddy lyrics they're turned off. they can't empathize with that because it's so far removed from their daily lives. is that a bad thing? the life of the ghetto requires music that can let you get lost in the sounds rather than the lyrical content. when you come home and you realize your life is trapped, that you are trapped you want music that lets you forget it all, forget? by listening to it in music? you want a beat that can move the house. you don't want to spend 15 minutes figuring out what he means by that one line. white people always like to intellectualize things well if it weren't for people intellectualizing things, you wouldn't be listening to the music in the first place, bring it away from the heart and closer to the mind. that's what underground is. the music for those that like to flaunt their intelligence. so? "oh, I'm smart because I caught the double-meaning in that line off the new CoFlow track" blah blah. look at where Rawkus is taking shit; they're completely manipulating the concept of "underground" to feed the egos of all the fools who are anti-establishment just for the sake of being anti-establishment. good point there it's an ingenious plan that will only help blur the line between independent and corporate manipulation. plus, it's owned by the son of fucking rupert murdoch. every sub-culture around has been marketed and targeted by some gigantic machine of a business, your underground is nothing and it never will be more than another part of the mainstream. there is money to be made in commodifying rebellion and as long as this is true there can never be a true sub-culture. long live Debbie Gibson!

 

i could turn around what you said here and say that people in the ghetto are trapped there because they don't use intellect.

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sorry to keep posting on this topic but ive got to weigh in on that comment. the majority of people in the "ghetto" are there, and stay there because they dont have the means to escape it....its a well known fact that inner city youth, especially minoritys have some of the worst public school systems in america, school systems that no one gives a shit about. topped with the fact that if your living in the ghetto chances are you are at the bottom of the barrel finacially which could force a lot of kids to turn to working or selling drugs in order to help out or even survive themselves. i certanly wouldnt blame a kid for dropping out of high school and selling crack so he could support himself and his single mother. it is possible to break out of that cycle but if you think about the conditions these kids grow up in do you really think you would be strong enough to rise above all that??? im pretty much positive i wouldnt an i imagine 90% of the people on this board wouldnt either. its not a place anyone wants to be.

 

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brick, brick ,brick...thats how i be up against your girlfriends ass...

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Originally posted by Gouged out 3rd Eye:

jay z is a sick rapper too. yeah hes not keeping it "real" or from the streets cuz he blew up and is making money. hes got new things to rap about.

 

Bullshit. The the main problem I have with Jay-Z is what he reps now. He blew up; more power to him. But to claim he's hiphop when all he does is rap about his money and cars is bullshit. I don't have problems with mainstream, I have problems when supposed "hiphoppers" have 20 fucking songs out about the same damn thing. If hes drinking Cristal, driving Lambos, and fucking models, that's terrific, but don't put out a whole album about those 3 things and call yourself true to the hiphop game.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by atc (edited 06-30-2001).]

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