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BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE: BY MICHEAL MOORE


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Re: ese

 

Originally posted by KaBar

I gotta be honest, I haven't seen it yet, although I think it is playing at the River Oaks here in Houston--that's the theatre in the formerly hippie district, then the gay district, now the upper-class yuppie gentrification district. They show a lot of art films there.

 

I must give Moore props for having some serious gonads. The guy's got more brass than a church bell, no shit.

 

I understand that he has actually been an NRA member since he was a kid and is an expert rifle shot. Go figure!

 

thats my point. it points out how absurd the whole culture of violence is, and the availability of guns, but its not a one trick pony. Its not saying "banning guns will solve our problem" its not even saying guns are the problem. Theres much more and nobody will go into it. everyone wants to stick to their own little issue. It might be of intrest to you. get you thinking regardless.

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this one's on my list

 

I've only seen the trailer where Michael Moore signs up for a bank account because they are offering a free rifle with every new account. This blows my mind. Talk about a gun culture.

Coming from a family with one whole side being farmers and both sides being pioneers less than 130 years ago, I understand the need for firearms as a tool as well as protection, but when you sign up for a bank account? Wow.

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Re: Anti-Establishment?

 

Originally posted by KaBar

The LAST thing the government wants is for the people to be armed.

 

i'm going to be cheesy because it's the only way this might become clear for some folks...

 

a gun does not make you armed.

 

your MIND is armed with knowledge, and the ability to make decisions.

 

you can lay a gun on the ground, have it fend for itself, piss on it and reap no consequences as the gun can't defend itself. any halfway intelligent person can fend for themself by refering to their own mental database of knowledge and experience, and then take action accordingly.

 

and if some fool wants to take my life, granted im not going to just let it happen, i'm not going to bring myself to their level on some self-righteous, i'm a god-fearing, my life is worth more, shit. it's darwinistic to a degree, but if everyone toted guns and shot each other in paranoid "self-defense" trip, we'd quickly wipe ourselves out. except for the guy with the biggest, baddest gun. but he'll meet his match too.

 

stop thinking that things are right or wrong. and that you have the RIGHT to take someone's life.

that's the biggest bunch of pseudo self-empowerment hooey phooey.

 

or better yet, educate yourself. i think that's all michael moore is asking.

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Poop Man Bob

 

I certainly didn't intend to avoid answering your post in any way. Actually, it didn't really seem to me you were seeking my reply. You stated your opinion---I respect that.

 

HOWEVER. Since UK has "banned guns" the crime rate has skyrocketed. You are much more likely to be a victim of what is called a "strong arm robbery" in London or any other major UK city than in the U.S.

 

In Australia, which has been a forced disarmament that bothers American gun owners far more than UK, the documented robbery rate has gone up a very dramatic FORTY PER CENT.

 

The real deal, though, has nothing to do with street crime. It has to do with arrogant government authoritarianism.

 

The U.S. has 270 million firearms. If they were to be banned tomorrow, and only 1% resisted and decided to foment insurrection, that is still 2,700,000 guerrillas.

 

Believe me when I tell you that 2,700,000 guerrillas is more than enough to overthrow any totalitarian government in the United States.

 

ONE SINGLE SNIPER almost paralyzed Washington, D.C. Imagine what several hundred snipers would do, all shooting at Government officials.

 

Bill Clinton and Janet Reno were terrified that they had inadvertently set off a civil war by attacking the Branch Davidians. It was a very "near" thing. Here in Texas, I knew about twenty or thirty individuals, personally, that seemed to be advocating immediate civil war. The Texas Constitutional Militia was furiously burying ammunition and weapons, and buying military surplus equipment at a very rapid rate. The gun stores here in Texas were stripped BARE of semi-automatic firearms.

 

I talked with several members of the National Guard who told me flat out that they would refuse to search for weapons in civilian hands. My Marine Corps buddies online told me "Absolutely NOT" when I asked them if they would be willing to go house-to-house searching for firearms.

 

Bottom line: the American people will not tolerate being disarmed without resistance. Resistance means any politician who attempts it will face almost certain retaliation. At the very least, he will be defeated at the polls. Or worse. The American people will not be disarmed.

 

All I can say, is I thank God for that.

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Re: Poop Man Bob

 

Originally posted by KaBar

I certainly didn't intend to avoid answering your post in any way. Actually, it didn't really seem to me you were seeking my reply. You stated your opinion---I respect that.

 

HOWEVER. Since UK has "banned guns" the crime rate has skyrocketed. You are much more likely to be a victim of what is called a "strong arm robbery" in London or any other major UK city than in the U.S.

 

In Australia, which has been a forced disarmament that bothers American gun owners far more than UK, the documented robbery rate has gone up a very dramatic FORTY PER CENT.

 

I, for one, would be willing to accept a 40% rise in robbery when there would be a much more dramatic reduction in murder, arguably a much more serious crime than robbery.

 

But that's besides the point of the movie, as ese stated. I'm not advocating total disarmament. On the other hand, there is no valid reason for use of cop-killer bullets and fully automatic rifles/machine guns amongst the general population. I know you're going to argue that by us having items such as these, it prevents the government from usurping even more power than it already has ... but that doesn't fly with me. 2,700,000 people are NOT going to turn on the government and start shooting, no matter how paranoid you are.

The real deal, though, has nothing to do with street crime. It has to do with arrogant government authoritarianism.

 

The U.S. has 270 million firearms. If they were to be banned tomorrow, and only 1% resisted and decided to foment insurrection, that is still 2,700,000 guerrillas.

 

You're assuming that each person in the US has a gun. Common sense dictates that overall gun ownership is nowhere close to 1:1.

 

Believe me when I tell you that 2,700,000 guerrillas is more than enough to overthrow any totalitarian government in the United States.

 

Like I said, 2,700,000 people will never get the chance to revolt without government intervention from the get-go. No matter how many two-way radios and militia training grounds there are.

 

Oh, and I lived in Houston for 21 years. Don't make us all out to be militia members.

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Guest TrustEvil

Kabar, your government is not trying to take away your guns...that simply will not EVER happen. The problem is, things have gotten so out of control, that no one really knows what to make of the situation now. However, regardless of the violent outcome, big business has such a heavy hand in the weapons industry, that they simply would never allow politicians to ban guns, beause it takes money out of their pockets, which is something they fear far more than some kids shooting up their high school....for them it's simply part of the cost of doing business. There are too many guns, and the majority of the guns being sold are designed to kill people, not animals...who the hell hunts deer with a Tech-9 ? or an M-16 for that matter ?

I think the 2 most important things anyone can learn from this movie is 1) The Government and it's little buddy the Media thrive on the fear they instill into their citizens...it's how they maintain control, and keep people consuming shit....they sensationalize every little thing in order to keep Joe Citizen in constant fear of something or other....because while he's worried about the cancer he'll get from his Big Mac or the kid who's gonna rob him on his way to work and then shoot him in the face just for fun, his government is stripping his rights and freedoms and making oil deals with terrorists right under his nose, but he's too stupid and scared to realize what is happening, and even when he finds out, he doesn't really give a shit because he's just happy he's still got his house and job.

2)The second thing you will learn from this film is that because of guns, television and just your country's general attitude towards everyone else, you are one, if not the, most violent countries in the world....check the facts they drop in the movie....Countries such as England, Germany, France, Australia and Canada have less than 200 gun murders a year....in the good old USA....over 11,000.....explain that.

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Poop Man Bob

 

I'm glad to hear you lived here in Houston for 21 years. Since you have experience, then you should know better than the rest of these guys why virtually the entire state government here is now Republican, when there had not been hardly any Republicans elected since the end of the War Between the States. The Democrats OWNED this state for well over 100 years, UNTIL THE LIBERAL WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAME PREDOMINANT---which happened somewhere around about 1968.

 

Beginning then, Texas began it's swing to the Republicans. Conservative Democrats were forced out of their own party, and largely due to two main issues--the right to keep and bear arms, and the abortion issue, Texas became a Republican stronghold.

 

Since you lived here, then you know that approximately one out of every five cars on the street contains at least one firearm. 270 million is both the approximate number of citizens in the U.S., AND the approximate number of firearms, but you're correct, there are only about 70-75 million gun owners. But each of them owns several guns, usually. And in Texas, they own a LOT of guns.

 

The militia movement in Texas was by no means universal--in fact, it was a very small portion of the population. I would estimate no more than 10,000 members in this state. Nation-wide, somewhere around 90,000. And today---it has "disappeared" and no longer exists at all.

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  • 2 weeks later...

BOWLING came across to me as a film about the general mindstate of Americans and the way the American way of life breeds a type of pro-gun mentality, as opposed to being specifically about guns or gun control. I also think Moore was trying to use Columbine as a platform for a lot of different social criticisms; namely that whole train of thought pointing to America as a sort of fear-factory.

I got a huge kick out of the sequence showing some of the major U.S. acts of global aggression just after the Lockheed Martin guy's interview. Bitter sarcasm.

 

I'm curious to know what Kabar would think of that flick. Moore never mentioned Ruby Ridge.

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I was so shocked to see the stats on gun related murders. The fear factory machine just isn't the American media Canadian news broadcasts do focus alot on the negitive but we don't harp and dwel on it.CNN played out 9/11 for a year, now it's the sinper what next? I even find that my own parents assume and fear for the worst when ever something gos on globaly that could effects us.

 

 

 

I loved the y2k thing that was so funny!

 

Have you americans seen the show Talking to Americans hosted Rick Mecer?

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Frate Raper

 

The Y2K thing was real as a motherfucker. I had friends who were programmers tell me in 1981, when I got out of the Marines, that the year 2000 was going to result in a collapse of the computer-based financial and retail portions of the economy, and possibly a collapse of the power grid.

The WORLD (not just the U.S.) spent SIXTY-FIVE BILLION DOLLARS unfucking the computer systems. They re-wrote a mega bazillion lines of code to do it. It took about five years.

 

If they HAD NOT done it, we would have seen a crash like nobody has ever seen. Your post makes it seem like all the people who prepared were a bunch of ignorant dumb asses. Far from it. I know several computer programmers who moved their families out of the cities and up into rural property (deer leases, vacation homes, etc.) and who had stockpiled tens of thousands of dollars worth of supplies.

 

From my point of view, the best thing about Y2K is that millions of American families who were not prepared and not self sufficient, GOT that way, and now, they own generator.s and assault rifles, and water purification equipment, stockpiled food, etc., etc., that they never had before.

 

This is definately a good thing. The day the World Trade Center was hit, my daughter called me from school all panicked and said "Dad! How many gas masks do we have?!!" I said "Seven. Why?" "Oh. I just wondered." "Don't worry about it, we're covered." Crisis doesn't look too bad when you've already got your shit straight.

 

But there's always a bunch of people who won't do what they are supposed to do, that fuck everything up for them that do.

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YOU ARE ALL WRONG

 

hey. the movie makes valid points but hey let's face it micheal moore is an egotistical obnoxious guy. he hogs the camera and manipulates his interviewees and interview material so that he is the only one who looks smart. fuck that guy. his documentary making technique takes away all the credibility from what is actually valid. booo.

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  • 8 months later...

what the fuck are you talking about. He shows the real deal man. Just because you dont want to admit it, dont diss this guy he's a hero. i liked the southpark cartoon and the thing about knocking on doors in canada hehe. and when he asked a cop when was the last time there had been a murder in his city and the only one he remember was from a guy that had came from the u.s... hehe a big slap in the face for you americans who thinks you are the best of the world. :lol:

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  • 4 weeks later...

I finally saw this movie and it was great. As a non-american, it reinforced my perception that americans (for the most part) have no control over where there country is headed. Awesome movie though. Really funny and really sad.

 

"My first question is: Do you think it's a good idea to be handing out guns in a bank?"

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That's funny that this thread just got bumped. I just downloaded this and watched it a couple hours ago. It's a pretty good fucking movie. I think it was interesting as shit, there were a lot of good points shown in it. I think that they should show movies like this to kids in school, even though that will never happen. But I would say it's one of the better movies I have seen in a while.

 

 

That shit with the bank was fucking hilarious. :lol:

Also that NRA leader or whoever he was was a real fucking ignorant cock.

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yeah, i saw this movie awhile ago. thus far its turned into the fucking bible for all my uber-liberal friends. He brings up valid points, although i think the flim attempted to discuss too much and was a bit all over the place. other than that, it was good.

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i really liked it. it dragged on towards the end but then all of a sudden there was this hick that was wearing a hat that said "fuck everybody." that was so funny it made me fart.

 

it had interesting points and i just loved the fact that michael moore was fucking with everyone especially mr. charlton heston that bastard.

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i bought the dvd and i enjoyed it. i would, however, like to point out that alot of the movie is misleading.

 

for example, the gun in the bank was a national promotion. it was weatherby guns..which range in price from $1500 - $3000. theyre the Bentley of high-powered rifles. to open an account and get one, youd have to open a ten-year CD with like $10,000. moore makes it seem like he opened a checking account and got a free gun.

 

he says over 900 rounds were fired at columbine. i have no fucking clue how he got that figure. i read up on that because i was shocked to think they were able to fire 900 rounds..some website had the exact stats - I dont remember exactly but they each shot about 125 rounds. im wondering if he counted each pellet from the shotgun shells as a 'round', and also included shots fired from police?

 

and michael moore is full of shit when he says he sees alot of black people in canada. he gives the statistic that 13% of canada is non-white.

thats about 1/3 of the percentage of non-whites in the USA. also, USA has a population about 9 times greater than canada (30 million....270 million).

 

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

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Guest imported_Tesseract

I dont see how you can trust more the stats of a webiste than a documentary....but to tell you the truth, it doesnt really matter.

I often get paranoid with that shit so i feel you. For example, i came to realise that most enviromental campaigns aswell as antismoking ones state half the truth( which can be concidered a lie), i guess the reason is to make people think about it and go against something thats 'wrong' in a more passionate and determined way...i surely dont like that. However, the truth behind all that is unshakeable, Offering a rifle when opening an account (any type) dictates that people prefer rifles than washing machines or life insurances. Having teenage kids slaughtering other stundents at their school is plain awfull and the ammount of rounds shot doesnt change shit.

I watched the film and have my arguments on some points aswell but i believe that Moore is definately on point and thats all that matters.

 

Detail is pornography

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Guest imported_Tesseract

Fair enough, however i find it ridiculous to argue about the ammount of rounds as an argumentative of what really happenned.

I get pissed when people are telling the truth and just beacuse they're somehow biased they give reasons to be opposed over crap.

Its just small to play it that way.

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there is an old saying which i will paraphrase..'using flawed information will always lead to a flawed conclusion'.

 

all im saying is that i dont like the way it seems michael moore already had an idea of what he wanted to say, and then tried to fit the stats in that direction. another old saying goes 'the evidence should determine the theory, not the theory determine the evidence'.

 

read the truth about bowling website. he chops up charlton hestons speeches in a way that is misleading, at the very least.

 

to the person who says there are alot of black people in canada, youre fucking kidding me. it doesnt matter if im canadian or not.

 

http://www.imdiversity.com/Article_Detail....e_ID=149#CANADA

 

right there is a site which breaks down canadas diversity. it says only 2% of canadians are black. and theres only slightly more than half a million black people in all of canada. meanwhile, about 14% of the usa population is black, which makes for about 30 million total.

 

im not saying it changes the fabric of what is being said in the movie. it doesnt. im simply saying it would have been better had michael moore just laid out the facts as they are, without trying to spin them in his direction for the purpose of sensationalism.

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