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Agt. Adopus

the untruths and ignorance behind specism.

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To uphold a specist view is not much different then upholding a sexist or classist view. Sexists for example believe that men are greater then then women because of there strength, ability to partake in sports, etc . Classists believe a group of people should be in control and be honored, respected and treated greater because there class and economic status.

Anyone in there right minds would think that is wrong, but I ask, were do either prejudices differ from specism.

 

The idea behind specism is valuing human life over non human animal life, because of brain development. Specists claim that the human brain is more advanced and can reason greater, and because of that they believe a human can suffer greater then a non human animal can. Human beings have stronger emotional capablities then non human animals, but how can we use emotional capabilities and reasoning to judge suffering and physical pain. Specists use such arguments to justify animal exploitation. But if specists use reasoning and emotional capabilities to justify animal exploitation, based on the animals intellectual and emotional capablitites then they must not have a problem with say chemical testing on a severly retarded man or a infant, the retarded man and infant cannot reason and do not have the emotional capabilities as an "average" man or woman, but does that justify treating them unequal or different? I think not.

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Guest Canadiano

nice post.

 

 

 

i used to make the retarded kid in Grade 1 step in dogshit all the time, and we made a retarded British kid in grade seven pull his cock out in the guidance office...shit was funny. Still, he was alright. I'm the only kid in the school who took the time out to walk home with him and get to know him a few times.

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Guest beardo

"what about dogs? dogs are filthy animals."

 

"i dont eat dog either"

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Guest --zeSto--

here's a classic one...

 

Some people will quote the 'good book' and say

"The Lord gave man dominion over the animals."

 

But Dominion means

i) Control or power over another or others.

ii) The exercise of such control or power.

 

hence... responsible use and preservation.

Not "kill 'em all and let god sort them out."

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I think this is absolutely true, human being are just way too genus exclusive, and they have contributed to the virtual extermination of NUMEROUS other species. And not just large animals like whales or Siberian tigers either. Look at the BRUTAL GENOCIDAL EXTERMINATION of many of nature's smallest creatures. They are just fulfilling their niche in Gaia's great plan, and whatever harm they do is surely ofset by unknown benefits. Like variola. Sure, it causes smallpox in human beings, but if we just quit eating meat, and had a wholesome, holistic, sustainable diet, our natural immunity to this little baby would be optimized, and when some arrogant, know-it-all scientist screws up and lets this sonofabitch out of a government biological weapons laboratory by accident, we can expect it to re-establish it's rightful place in the microbiological pantheon by croaking about 200 million unfortunate persons who do not have the proper credentials and foresight to get vaccinated. Got your shots? Best fuckin' get 'em. Can't get vaccinated for variola, a major biological warfare agent? GEE, WHY NOT?

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Guest socrates

Damn I'm way too high to read this

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I agree that speciesism is a problem in todays world. The way animals are treated is totaly disgusting. I'm not talking about how nicely someone treats their pets either (but I don't have a problem like some in calling dogs and cats "pets"). Animals are basically treated as slaves to the human population. Their lives are valueless. Unless they are able to somehow entertain us, or provide us with sustanance, they are worth nothing. This topic could go on and on...

 

I took a religious studies class about the environment and we discussed in great detail that passage from Genesis in the BIble. It basically, when broken down, means that humans are supposed to have a basic respect for the world that they were given. They are to take care of it, not kill everything. This is for all the Bible followers who say that God gave us power over the animals.

 

But whatever...I could go on. I just think that animal rights aren't the issue, that will never happen beyond what is already. Animal Liberation is the key. No more cages. If you're gonna eat meat, learn how to fuckin track down the animal like the American Indians did. Go Vegan/Vegetarian.

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Guest trampled

What is the big deal with plants and animals becoming extinct?

 

Things were coming and going billions of years before we got here. Isn’t that just the natural evolution of life?

This is different. It’s never been caused by just one species (humans) and it’s never been at such an accelerated rate. It is estimated that around 30,000 species of plants and animals are completely disappearing each year. Because all life-forms are interrelated in food chains, this has a snowball effect on all existing species. Human population growth is not estimated to taper off for about another 50 years, so food supply will continue to become a larger and larger issue for us all.

 

“So?” What the fuck are you talking about, “so?”

 

Let me try to explain it on your humanocentric terms. The quality of life is better for us if we are aware of and are empathic towards other life- forms. It’s a huge part of our human evolution and cultural histories.

A human-centered environment (a city) tends to exclude other life-forms or, at best, tolerate any that do not compromise or interfere with us. Pigeons are okay as long as they don’t shit on the statues, but the mice have to die. This is the kind of mentality that leads us to ask, “What good were they?” when a species disappears. If they don’t directly benefit the human race their lives have little value.

 

Agreed.

 

No, not agreed. I see value in other life-forms that has nothing to do with how they benefit us. Ecosystems function quite nicely with no humans around. Why do you assume that the birds, insects, mammals, reptiles, etc. are not all busy living just like we are? They have no less value than we do, and, like us, they are all aspects of manifested sentience that gives multiplicity and diversity to our world.

 

But we’re smarter.

 

Human intelligence is another narrow way to compare us with other life- forms that are totally different. A Mensa member is more intelligent than a retard with an IQ of 37, but how can you compare a human to a bird? They can fly and we can invent rap music. Wow, are we ever superior. It is only our abstract reasoning ability that sets us apart from animals. If you compare us on most other abilities we are inferior to many animals.

 

Well, let’s just stick to zoos and save one of each for posterity.

 

Zoos are animal prisons. Besides, they only deal with the spectacular species that people want to go and pay to look at.

Why is it instantly seen as our fault?

The extinction of other life-forms is directly related to human population growth and the resultant human domination of the natural world.

 

But there’s plenty of room for them to survive.

 

No, there isn’t. Your local park is not enough. Huge expanses of intact wilderness are necessary for many species of plants and animals to survive.

 

Do you not realize you sound a bit gay right now?

 

To be against eradicating entire species of plants and animals because humans want more mini-malls is considered “gay,” is it?

 

I’m just fucking with you.

 

Yes, in your pop-culture world, which has the permanence of a fart, I guess it is okay to “fuck with me.” If playing the fiddle while Rome burns to the ground keeps you sane, then go ahead.

 

vicemagazine

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Guest Canadiano

shit, I love animals, I love meat, and I hate this topic. no offense to 773, 'cuz your thread is cool, just not the same bullshit debates over and over again...

 

 

tired. blunts, beer, n basketball.

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I agree with a lot of the arguments against specism, but not the conclusion many jump to as a result. My short answer to vegans is that anti-specism is not a reason to uplift animals, but rather a reason to devalue humans. We're just another animal. Go to some third world (or even second world) country and check out how cheap human life is, never mind the animals.

My longer answer is that I don't care for many of the generalizations and black-or-white assertions about the nature of nature. People complain about human-to-animal cruelty as if they hold humans to a higher behavioral/moral standard - which is specism, plain and simple. I argue that humans' higher intelligence is only a trait, like jaw size or running speed or camouflage ability, rather than a reason to consider humans a superior race. Higher intelligence comes with drawbacks: more creative cruelty, more devious ways to practice selfishness. By itself it is not inherently good to be smarter. So there's no excuse to discriminate against any animal, or any retarded human...and no reason to expect some kind of nobility or morality to spring from the well of IQ points.

Under this philosophical umbrella, all human behavior, including enslaving animals, warring with one another, visiting the moon, suburban sprawl, strip mining, arguing on the internet, is natural. We ARE nature - just the weirdest branch. There is no division between small parts of earth not populated by humans, and the rest. Beings get killed and eaten, forests burn from lightning strikes, etc. in areas where there are no humans, so violent death and destruction are not unique to humans. We just manipulate our environment to a much higher degree than any other species, so we cause a significant amount of chaos, but just wait till the next ice age, or the next meteor strike, and when it's over come tell me that humans cause more trouble than "nature".

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Originally posted by Cracked Ass

I agree with a lot of the arguments against specism, but not the conclusion many jump to as a result. My short answer to vegans is that anti-specism is not a reason to uplift animals, but rather a reason to devalue humans. We're just another animal. Go to some third world (or even second world) country and check out how cheap human life is, never mind the animals.

My longer answer is that I don't care for many of the generalizations and black-or-white assertions about the nature of nature. People complain about human-to-animal cruelty as if they hold humans to a higher behavioral/moral standard - which is specism, plain and simple. I argue that humans' higher intelligence is only a trait, like jaw size or running speed or camouflage ability, rather than a reason to consider humans a superior race. Higher intelligence comes with drawbacks: more creative cruelty, more devious ways to practice selfishness. By itself it is not inherently good to be smarter. So there's no excuse to discriminate against any animal, or any retarded human...and no reason to expect some kind of nobility or morality to spring from the well of IQ points.

Under this philosophical umbrella, all human behavior, including enslaving animals, warring with one another, visiting the moon, suburban sprawl, strip mining, arguing on the internet, is natural. We ARE nature - just the weirdest branch. There is no division between small parts of earth not populated by humans, and the rest. Beings get killed and eaten, forests burn from lightning strikes, etc. in areas where there are no humans, so violent death and destruction are not unique to humans. We just manipulate our environment to a much higher degree than any other species, so we cause a significant amount of chaos, but just wait till the next ice age, or the next meteor strike, and when it's over come tell me that humans cause more trouble than "nature".

 

yea! yea! mother fuckers! what he said... its all right there!

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I want my worthless wife to stop giving me head and cook me up some fucking animal right now well done.

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