KaBar Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 Hey, we never miss an opportunity to re-till plowed ground around here. There's definately a split on this board, but it's not between the liberals and the conservatives (we are locked in a sweaty intellectual embrace). The dividing line is at the Beavis-and-Butthead border. "Huh huh huh He said "history." Go back to sleep. And I'm with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Luv Roo Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Originally posted by Canadiano so you're saying that it would be perverse of my mother to wear that particular sari i had mentioned earlier (the one with the gold swastikas all over it)? I don't think so. She is a very proud and traditional Indo-Canadian who will never forget where she came from. It is unfortunate she decided not to wear it (my yuppie brother had a lot to do with that decision). The confederate flag is all about southern pride, and I believe should be flown by all proud southerners if they wish. KaBar made it clear that even the south is losing a bit of it's distinguishable culture, ie the fried chicken, etc. There needs to be something, like a flag, to represent themselves, even if it is just a casually thrown on sticker on the back of a truck. Hell, there is a flag for every country. Every state in the US has a flag, as well as every province in Canada. Families in Europe have Coats of Arms, and the list goes on. I say they definately should fly that flag high all around the government buildings. People have to be educated. I don't believe it is proper for some angry minorities to want that flag removed because of their lack of historical knowledge. Hell, perhaps this would do a better job of uniting the races in the south. If I were a politician down there, I'd say that the flag must be taken back from those skinheads who abuse it's beauty. You know, like when women try to 'take back the night' from the rapists. The people who don't want the confederate flag flown in public spaces are not "some angry minorities". They are poeple who's ancestors had humiliating and oppressed lives. Most black people in this country can trace their family back to - you guessed it - slavery. All humans deserve dignity, and this is the dignity that alot of black people want. They don't want a constant reminder of what went on to their people. The image may mean a lot of things, but to many it a reminder of an ugly and shameful time in american history. Regardless of what the civil war was about. Just as the Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians are an ugly reminder of people's stereotypes of American Indians. The swastika is a context. If tilted on its corner, in black, surrounded by a white circle and red retangle - that is Nazi Germany. If gold, and on a sari - probably means Hindu. Most intelligent people are able to make the out the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willy.wonka Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 would GOD want a daily reminder of what killed his Son? the cross for example..?the cross is what Jesus was nailed on to.. kinda like the knife that killed your mother....yah seen? something a friend brought up to me a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 "Living in Canada, I don't know too much of all this, but from the books I've read, from the television and movies I've watched, the typical Southern gentile looks a really cool, noble character." exactly............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Canadiano Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 yo, Smart, you don't need to be bringing personal attacks to the table, 'cuz it might show your true character. anyway, I could argue that your saying "the South shall not rise again" is a typically American way of ruining any sort of identity. Roo, good call on the swastika - i'll tell my mom that, even though it probably won't work 'cuz she is stubborn like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodice_ripper Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 Originally posted by willy.wonka would GOD want a daily reminder of what killed his Son? the cross for example..?the cross is what Jesus was nailed on to.. kinda like the knife that killed your mother....yah seen? something a friend brought up to me a while back. beautifully done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 are you two kidding me? beautifully done? ahhhhhhhhhhh what? click click hello, click click hello? thats has to be the worst come back yet, no offense willie, or you either bodice, i just call it how i see it....and that my friends is a lousy counter arguement...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodice_ripper Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 why? it nicely points out that all symbols are MEANINGLESS, except for what you hang on them yourself. Granted, it was a little far fetched, but made the point with a little humour - which this thread lacks.......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my moment Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 i just think it matters how you use it to express yourself. some people might use it to express southern pride and others might use it as a sign of hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Originally posted by Canadiano yo, Smart, you don't need to be bringing personal attacks to the table, 'cuz it might show your true character. what persinal attacks? you mean me using your grandmother as a clothes horse to express my position? because you already had her dressin golden swastikas... if you'd have said your grocer I would have said your grocer... point is, you have no valid position on this argument from a 'historical' standpoint... and you may be dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 i don't know, man. I thought my argument was very parallel, still. Then you called me dumb. boohoo. nothing to do with the moms, 'cuz you never said anything about her. 416 is today. maybe there'll be personal attacks of another nature there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shameless self promotion Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 people need to have more shit to do, other than sit around and bitch at stuff like this..its a part of history, like it or not, im not saying that they have to fly it, but you sure as hell cant erase it... nah meean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 woop woop. the flag means lots of things. why dont people just NOT fly it. if it means a symbol of racism to a majority, reguardless of wether it is or not, then dont fly the flag unless you want to portray the that image to that majority. Dont make this deeper than it has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 Crackatinnie---So, using that argument, the Vietnamese Cultural Center here in Houston ought to not fly the South Vietnamese flag because it might offend somebody, and rastas ought to not wear tams, and cowboys ought to not wear cowboy hats, and.... ah, come on. You can't control what other people do or say. Forget about it. If you don't like the Confederate flag for some reason or another, just refuse to own one or fly one, and your task is finished as far as I can see. If somebody else wants to fly one, I guess that's his problem. I suppose if enough people in a state vote to change the symbol of their state, then you'll have a black, green and red flag flying over Alabama and Mississippi and South Carolina, etc. and all the white rednecks can be the ones bitching and complaining and accusing people of racial insensitivity. That would be okay, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 you're welcome to experss yourself on an individual level, on a statewide level, however, you must at least appear neutral... This has nothing to do with changing state flags entirely (except where it is completly neccessary)it's about letting go of symbols that reflect the state support of institutions that have been legally unjust since before WOMEN COULD VOTE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 Smart---This isn't an issue for me. I don't own a "rebel" flag, and if I did, I wouldn't fly it. But to tell you the truth, I think we ought to be careful about thinking that somehow or another anybody has a right to censor what sort of expression somebody else wants to make. Last time I looked, the First Amendment guaranteed individuals the right to express themselves as they please, so long as it is not pornographic or a danger to public safety (Like the proverbial shouting of "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.) This is true of flags, etc. If some idiot wanted to fly a Nazi flag over his house, the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights says that is just peachy, and in fact, if one interfered with that, one might get charged under the civil rights laws. Same goes for a Palestinian flag, or a Israeli flag, a Communist flag, or whatever. And a "rebel" flag. But is it appropriate for a government building to fly such a flag? Maybe not. I wouldn't be at all happy, for instance, if my county government decided to start flying the flag of Mexico from our Court House. It's not appropriate, and considering the history of Texas, it is inflammatory. The same thing could be said to be true about the State flags of former Confederate states. They should reflect an image that all the citizens of that state can identify with and be proud of. Or at least not be grossly offended by. Texas fought a war to be free of Mexican rule. We were an independent country for ten years. The same thing can be said to be true of former Confederate states, except THEY LOST THE WAR. Therefore, the state flags of those states should probably not contain elements of the former Confederate flag. Like the Stars and Bars, for instance. But for Billy Bob's trailer? No problemo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 KaBar, I couldn't agree more, and I think you'll fuind, if you look back through this thread that our arguments are exactly the same... at least I think I made a little stand in the beginning of this thread, basically outlining the same stuff as you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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