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mental invalid

State Court Says Pledge of Allegiance Is Unconstitutional

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hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

 

 

State Court Says Pledge of Allegiance Is Unconstitutional

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

 

Filed at 3:24 p.m. ET

 

 

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- For the first time ever, a federal appeals court Wednesday declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional because of the words ``under God'' added by Congress in 1954.

 

The ruling, if allowed to stand, means schoolchildren can no longer recite the pledge, at least in the nine Western states covered by the court.

 

In a 2-1 decision, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the phrase amounts to a government endorsement of religion in violation of the Constitution's Establishment Clause, which requires a separation of church and state.

 

``A profession that we are a nation `under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation `under Jesus,' a nation `under Vishnu,' a nation `under Zeus,' or a nation `under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion,'' Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel.

 

The government had argued that the religious content of ``one nation under God'' is minimal.

 

But the appeals court said that an atheist or a holder of certain non-Judeo-Christian beliefs could see it as an endorsement of monotheism.

 

``We are certainly considering seeking further review in the matter,'' Justice Department lawyer Robert Loeb said.

 

The 9th Circuit covers Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington state. Those are the only states directly affected by the ruling.

 

However, the ruling does not take effect for several months, to allow further appeals. The government can ask the court to reconsider, or take its case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

 

The case was brought by Michael A. Newdow, a Sacramento atheist who objected because his second-grade daughter was required to recite the pledge at the Elk Grove school district. A federal judge had dismissed his lawsuit.

 

``I'm an American citizen. I don't like my rights infringed upon by my government,'' he said in an interview. Newdow called the pledge a ``religious idea that certain people don't agree with.''

 

The appeals court said that when President Eisenhower signed the legislation inserting ``under God'' after the words ``one nation,'' he wrote that ``millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty.''

 

The court noted that the U.S. Supreme Court has said students cannot hold religious invocations at graduations and cannot be compelled to recite the pledge. But when the pledge is recited in a classroom, a student who objects is confronted with an ``unacceptable choice between participating and protesting,'' the appeals court said.

 

``Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge,'' the court said.

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Guest Dusty Lipschitz

i am not adament that it not be in schools... i mean i dont think its a direct endorsement of religion or a specific religon, but then again, i cant believe that they would change it to say godS, implying there is more then one god or emcompassing many religons

i think that it should be optional

if the kid wants to stand and recite, let them, if not, thats fine too

although i am openminded to all arguments, and i should be home in bed sick, so if this doesnt make sence, oh well

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Guest Are2

i am not part of a nation that is "under" anything, including god...

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Guest --zeSto--

http://www.dfected.net/zesto/heated.gif'>

 

that's what I think about ritual chanting being forced on Children.

Kids have those things memorized before they can even hope to understand

what it actually means. I still have the Lords Prayer in French stuck in my head.

 

people needs to some over-analysing every single word. sheesh !

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Guest serpent of the light

bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay

suck on deez nutz nigga

suck on deez nutz

 

eazy e is fresh.

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Guest im not witty

"do you remember the first thing you had to memorize?

was it the pledge of allegience? a five year old stands for a flag

that killed off all the real americans?"

 

"broken star" by the the broadways

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fair enuff with that quote, but is this a good thing or a bad thing?

 

is god bad?

 

is god good?

 

should parents simply allow their children to meditate or sit quietly?

 

when we begin to strip god out, are we enhancing the individual or are we robbing them of spirituality?

 

 

why do we still have "in god we trust" on the back of federal currency?

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its optional in school...i think thats enough. im a very firm believer in seperation of church and state and even i think the ruling is a bit overboard. god is a pretty broad term now a days, i honestly think if you consider the pledge of allegance prayer due to the inclusion of the word god your either an athiest looking for a lawsuit or a complete religious nut....either way your a moron and need to find something better to do with your time.

 

like i said, its optional and thats enough...eventually (unless your raising a complete idiot for a child) children will decide for themselves what the pledge of allegance is and means, and decide wether to continue reciting it. until then its a fairly harmless traditon at the most.....

 

regardless it wont be upheld by the supreme court.....

 

im more angry my tax money is going towards such frivilous, PC bullshit....get a fucking job for christ sake

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It's about time. Granted it's daft that tax dollars are going to argue it - it should never have been there in the first place.

 

It's nice to know SOMEONE is still trying to think through this fog of pseudo-patriotism/xenophobia. I'd get a book out on the subject....but..you know.................

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Originally posted by --zeSto--

http://www.dfected.net/zesto/heated.gif'>

 

that's what I think about ritual chanting being forced on Children.

Kids have those things memorized before they can even hope to understand

what it actually means. I still have the Lords Prayer in French stuck in my head.

 

people needs to some over-analysing every single word. sheesh !

 

i gotta agree with that. it should be done away with because it's so hypocritical.

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i dont even remember the pledge of allegiance..there jsut words...its not like you have to like em or believe em...but yeah i agree with zesto they need to stop dissecting every damn word..its maddening

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i cant believe you guys have to say that shit.

 

so many amenendments pledges songs and all that jazz. just sing an anthem and your set.

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ok well all i have to say is amen to boogie hands....boogie hands in 2004!!

 

 

so i guess the senate yesterday voted overwhelming to pass a resolution denouncing the verdict

 

the house of reps went on the steps to pledge the allegiance

 

bush has the justice dept. looking for ways to overturn the verdict

 

and now lawmakers want to make the pledge an ammendment to the constitution

 

splendid!! just what the lawmakers needed another stupid distraction to get media headlines...

 

by the way i always thought that the "under god part" was part of the original, turns out, this is not the case....actually is voted in by congress under FDR...so all the aethiest was saying was that he wanted the original to be spoken, he did not want to completely ban it....

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I pledge no allegiance to the flag of the undeniable mistakes of america, when due to the plutocracy for which it stands, so many nations and their gods have become invisable, with liberty and justice reserved for a precious chosen few. Let our allegiances remain with those betrayed by the facade.

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Guest Dusty Lipschitz
Originally posted by mental invalid

when we begin to strip god out, are we enhancing the individual or are we robbing them of spirituality?

 

i dont think god/orginized religion and spirituality go hand in hand. i try and live a spiritual life, by practicing what i call spiritual principles, but don't necessarily believe in a "God".

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oh i agree with you dusty, but i did grow up irish catholic, and although i think it is a complete farce now, i did grow up with a sense of some other being.....really im just playing the devil advocate here...

 

 

lately ive been thinking man is far from some spiritual connection, and some will say that god has no place in government and i agree, but do the little steps of this help to nail the final coffins in the acknowledgement of some other "energy" out there....

 

i do beleive in freewill and that the only laws that govern us are those of physics, and i will praise the individual and man as his own god, but im jsut wondering where do we draw the line?

 

and really why the fuck was the phrase added to begin with?

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Guest Dusty Lipschitz
Originally posted by mental invalid

and really why the fuck was the phrase added to begin with?

 

because of mccarthyism. the government said too many "godless communists" had adopted similar pledges. it didnt used to contain the highly talked about phrase "under God" until 1954.

 

 

any other questions roe?

;)

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i dunno, i'm kinda glad to see the ruling. if for nothing else, just to spite bush.. that shady fuck. but i mean, i do believe in the separation of church and state, yet there's still all this federal endorsement of God like the pledge and "in God we trust" and now with all this God bless america stuff everywhere. but then again, at the same time you won't see me bitching about my state-funded college giving us a couple days off for easter. i dunno.. i guess in the end i agree with boogie that it's all pretty harmless, it's not brainwashing or anything. most of us probably grew up saying the pladge. fuck, if i can be raised southern baptist and not be brainwashed by THAT institution, then there's certainly not much harm in saying "one nation, under god." let the kids feel patriotic (i know i used to while saying it and looking at the flag)... the years and years disillusionment come later in life, at least that's how it's playing out for me.

 

and roe, as far as your concerns about robbing the individual of spirituality, i think spirituality should be instilled not by schools or govt institutions but by the family. schools should just teach kids academics, which in actuality, they have a hard enough time doing as it is seeing as how kids graduate high schools who can *just barely* read simply because teachers push them along through the system. i don't even want to think about the mess the public school system would make of spirituality given their difficulties with basics like literacy.

 

but here's my bottom line: i can't believe with all the problems this country has, that the thing our lawmakers shit themselves over is some purely symbolic issue with (what i feel are) the most minimal of consequences regardless of what side ends up "winning."

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good call dusty....looking at the time line, i would think that youre probably right on...

 

 

glue, where the fuck ya been? i like it when doods just kinda drop in, and yeah i think youre right about school vs family as far as instilling spirituality...

 

 

"schools should just teach kids academics, which in actuality, they have a hard enough time doing as it is seeing as how kids graduate high schools who can *just barely* read simply because teachers push them along through the system. i don't even want to think about the mess the public school system would make of spirituality given their difficulties with basics like literacy."

 

amen dood.........

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Guest Pilau Hands

It's just that no one really notices

the pledge of allegiance...under god

so help me god...in court

in god we trust

 

as noble as the idea of church and state is, the first days of the nation were about western ideals and religion to the godless heathens...or something. i mean i take the backseat on this one. i could be proven wrong, but i doubt there will ever be any change in national policy. why not? just because i'm tired and it's early.

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Guest --zeSto--

here's a new twist... thanks to PiC with Bill Maher...

 

they only added the God line to the pledge during the 1950's

when every one was afraid of the 'godless commies'.

 

Sure the founding fathers valued the idea of a common 'God',

but they were all freemasons anyways... so it's all BS.

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"I pledge Allegiance, to the flag, of the united states of hipocrisy,

and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, without liberty and justice for all"

-Pennywise, "Land of the Free"

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