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Mr. Mang

school system discussion

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tell me what you think:

 

"... the whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent, and think for themselves, and don't know how to be submissive, and so on - because they're dysfuctional to the institutions."

 

- Noam Chomsky - 'Understanding Power' (page 111)

 

(if you think this is just hippie bullshit you should understand that Noam is a professor at MIT)

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Originally posted by swif1

even though i can't really "focus" right now...i don't fully understand the quote.

 

since we're talking about schools, my junior year, i got fucked over because of the grading scale...lets just say:

 

84-93% = B

 

94-100%=A

 

:mad:

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Guest platapie

i hated school while i was tehre and now i just wanan go back. go figure:o :rolleyes:

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Guest whoami

I hate school , and I fucking cant wait to leave...

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Guest uncle-boy
Originally posted by Mr. Mang

 

(if you think this is just hippie bullshit you should understand that Noam is a professor at MIT)

 

most profesors, are liberal minded, hippy, peices of poo-on-a-stick.

so i dont give a hoo-ha if he's a prof. at MIT, he's still just a dirty hippy.

 

;)

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Guest KING BLING

School primarily distracts you from experience. Most people dedicate the most important years of development to the most unimportant things if viewed from a step back. This is to stifle the growth of radical and individual ideas and questions by fostering the socially acceptable ones. When all of your peers accept something blindly, at 14, so do you.

I always wonder how they managed to get so many people to come down like a hammer everytime someone questions something that so many people hate anyway...

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chomsky is definitely an important figure in dissident thought, and i agree with what he's saying here and respect him a great deal.

 

but just to play devils advocate for a sec... what does it say that he speaks out against the educational/professional training system, yet some of his paychecks come from one of the most prestigious institutions in that system, and is himself a product of that system? if it's such a threat to independent thought, why is he so mired in it?

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The new push in education is to make it more scripted. The federal and state governments are pushing for more standardized instruction. There are so many bureaucratic hurdles for teachers that the best experiences are difficult to create. I have had many awful teachers, but the worst were in college. There were so many droll people just spouting off their diatribe. Good teachers are people that encourage their students to direct their own learning toward similar goals.

 

I personally would like to see a world of free thinkers, and our system of education prevents this from happening as readily. Students are forced to conform to a set of rules, as are the teachers. The teachers are not to blame. It is the admistration and gorvernment that make school this way. Voters consistently make decisions that affect schools in my state. The voters are critical and at the same time want to cut funding. When all of this hipocrisy ends, there may be a time of great learning.

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Guest BROWNer

hows this for school....

in the states, and this is growing rapidly, they now

have private schools that you send your kid off to and

the idea is that the kid makes up his own mind what he'll

do that day. sort of free form schooling....at your own pace...

it may be just sitting around playing video games all day

or whatever. i saw this on 60 minutes or some shit.....

the selling point is that your kid learns better when its of

interest to them, not forced, and when its at their own pace.

wake up at 11 and go to school (if you want).

some of the kids attending the school hadn't learned how to

read yet...and they asked the parents what they thought,

and they just shrugged like it was no big deal..

 

i also just heard about military schooling. i'll leave it at that.

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Guest Ted Wakowski
Originally posted by EatMorGlue

 

but just to play devils advocate for a sec... what does it say that he speaks out against the educational/professional training system, yet some of his paychecks come from one of the most prestigious institutions in that system, and is himself a product of that system? if it's such a threat to independent thought, why is he so mired in it?

 

I've read Chomsky's response to this argument already. His belief on the issue is that in a democracy, educational institutions and government alike are in place to serve the will of the people, not the other way around. Resting upon that logic, it makes perfect sense that Chomsky promotes reform within a system he himself is a part of. Many of his stances would be entirely hypocritical if this were not the case.

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Guest Ted Wakowski

Our education system increasingly, and for the most part unwittingly, concerns itself with breeding future money-makers instead of REAL people. We're brought up with notions of succeeding in public school so we can go to college and get good, high paying jobs, have ourselves a cute family with 2-point-whatever kids, be nice little subservient Americans with no real concept of what it means to live, love and experience life. All we're really doing in the end is pumping more money into this super-power economy and supporting America's overflow into the rest of the world. $$ Ching ching $$.

 

Take what you need from school and leave a middle finger as your imprint.

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Originally posted by Ted Wakowski

Take what you need from school and leave a middle finger as your imprint.

 

that is exactly what i'm going to tell my kids, if (god forbid) i have any.

i'm trying to get it through my 9 year old brother's head that shool is just glorified babysitting if that's all he takes it for. after all, that's all the school sells it as...

i'm hoping he'll understand by the time he gets to middle school.

 

chomsky "ownz", etc.

:D

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it's great hearing all the responses.

 

(on a somewhat unrelated note i learned it is NOT cool to ask someone you know if their sister is hot. real life knowledge, kids.)

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Originally posted by Ted Wakowski

I've read Chomsky's response to this argument already. His belief on the issue is that in a democracy, educational institutions and government alike are in place to serve the will of the people, not the other way around. Resting upon that logic, it makes perfect sense that Chomsky promotes reform within a system he himself is a part of. Many of his stances would be entirely hypocritical if this were not the case.

 

fair enough.. i'll accept that. and your other post is on point too.

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i view schhol as a big waste of my life (mostly)... after pretty much dropping out of high school after my junior year, a friend talked me into going to a continuation type program at the local community college... that was great... the teachers (of the high school classes there) were really into having the students actually express themselves and most of the class time was spent with open discussions involving the whole class, not busy work... most of my school experience before that was filling out worksheets and shit... lame. it seems that in most public highschools are only there so kids can say they graduated... alot of the teachers are jaded and don't really care about the kids, they just want to be sure the kids can pass the tests and don't care about them beyond that... that is not to say there aren't great teachers out there who actually care and want to make a difference in kids lives, or to say that i haven't had some of these teachers...

 

the same applies to the first years of college... the classes in college that aren't part of the core education- or the transfer classes at a community college... the other classes are a lot different tho... most of these classes are only attended by people who are really interested in the subject, and the teacher knows this... these classes are a lot of fun...

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Guest imported_El Mamerro

Yay!! You guys are repeating what every young person has said about school since the beginning of the universe!! What a revolutionary bunch of bright minds you kids are!! I see the vast majority of you in 15 years telling your kids they have to do well in school to succeed.

 

Honestly, none of this is anything new. Regardless of what you think of school, the fact remains that it is responsible for giving you essential knowledge to manage yourself in this crazy fucking world. Obviously, calculus, Genghis Kahn, and the molecular structure of glucose is not essential knowledge... but discipline, patience, the ability to obtain information, ease of communication, etc. are. School trains you for these things, and has proven to be better at it than other methods. If in the end you feel like your only option is what Ted said, "get good, high paying jobs, have ourselves a cute family with 2-point-whatever kids, be nice little subservient Americans with no real concept of what it means to live, love and experience life", then YOU'RE the weakminded. I've gone through all levels of school and in no way feel like it lead me to see things that way.

 

Finally, to reiterate what someone said, just because he's a professor at MIT doesn't mean what he says holds more truth than anyone else's argument. I've worked with a couple of MIT professors before, and they are bright indeed... but they're complete fucking nutballs too. They're the kind of people who can solve the Schrodinger equation in their sleep, but who also go months without showering, eat ice cream with ketchup and mustard, and walk barefoot EVERYWHERE.

 

I'm not knocking on Noam, but what we have here is a case of a smart man justifying your hate of school and authority. "Hey, I hate school, they make me do things and I just want to go skate and smoke, yo... school is bullshit..." And then you read Noam and go "See, I TOLD you school is bullshit, man!!" Obviously you're gonna fucking side with him, cause he makes hating school seem reasonable... but the fact remains that you don't like school because you wanna go party when you have homework to do. Quit the fucking whining and take the heat. Beer,

 

El Mamerro

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Guest ctrl+alt+del

thats a book ill have to get. i always wondered who the hell noam chomsky was.

 

but

 

knowledge equals power. i go to school and will stay in school, so that i will have as much knowledge/power as possible. then i will take over the world. seriously, i plan on taking over America, at least. that really shouldnt be too hard.

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Originally posted by El Mamerro

 

I'm not knocking on Noam, but what we have here is a case of a smart man justifying your hate of school and authority. "Hey, I hate school, they make me do things and I just want to go skate and smoke, yo... school is bullshit..." And then you read Noam and go "See, I TOLD you school is bullshit, man!!" Obviously you're gonna fucking side with him, cause he makes hating school seem reasonable... but the fact remains that you don't like school because you wanna go party when you have homework to do. Quit the fucking whining and take the heat. Beer,

 

El Mamerro

 

 

yeah ok dad. i 'm not even gonna get into anything you said because it is sleep time.

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Guest uncle-boy
Originally posted by El Mamerro

I'm not knocking on Noam, but what we have here is a case of a smart man justifying your hate of school and authority. "Hey, I hate school, they make me do things and I just want to go skate and smoke, yo... school is bullshit..." And then you read Noam and go "See, I TOLD you school is bullshit, man!!" Obviously you're gonna fucking side with him, cause he makes hating school seem reasonable... but the fact remains that you don't like school because you wanna go party when you have homework to do. Quit the fucking whining and take the heat. Beer,

 

El Mamerro

 

word.

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Guest whoami
Originally posted by KING BLING

School primarily distracts you from experience. Most people dedicate the most important years of development to the most unimportant things if viewed from a step back. This is to stifle the growth of radical and individual ideas and questions by fostering the socially acceptable ones. When all of your peers accept something blindly, at 14, so do you.

I always wonder how they managed to get so many people to come down like a hammer everytime someone questions something that so many people hate anyway...

Their are positives from this, like girls today blowing you when you pull out you wang....

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