It seems like all u american's are just intrested in frieghts.......

[Jewish Task Force]

because its sunday, 110 degrees outside and im just bored:

 

Hey Zed, go to Europe and paint subways and then talk.

 

never. if i ever go to europe it will be to smoke good in amsterdam

 

Your loss. Even if you say never, you will. Bottom line, I dont give a shit if you are a freight only kinda guy. You will see bombed trains and you will be hyped and you will try to paint them and you will see what I am talking about.

 

By the way you can say anything you want. Hey for all you know I have painted NY subway wholecars that ran.

 

ran one maybe 2 trips. and all you have to show for it is a flik.

 

Obviously you didnt pick up the sarcasm in that. You can say all you want but for all I know you didnt paint shit. You can "say" you did them, but in reality you didnt.

 

I live in Cali, freights are not hard in the majority of california.

 

that is my point. its not weather freights are hard, or euro trains are hard. its where you paint them that distinguishes its difficulty level. freights in nyc are hard, hell freights in la are hard. im sure there are other places where freghts are hard. there are also places where freights are not so hard. just like im sure there are places in europe where pass trains are not so hard, just like there are places where thay are. robing a house in brooklyn is probably a lot harder than in boise idaho too.

 

That was my point. Just not in so many words. You were generalizing when you said, and I quote, ". i wish all you euro haters would go to cali and paint freights"..

 

Maybe LA, I cant say because I have never painted them there,

same with the East Coast. Every freight I have ever painted was very easy compared to subways in Europe.

 

and your saying that because you painted every lay-up and yard in europe im sure.

 

Not the point. I havent painted everywhere in Europe. Never said I did. But I have painted the hot targets in many cities, and none of them even compared to even the hardest freight yard I have painted. Name a freight yard where you have to run into a subway tunnel while the trains are still running and paint the laid up train in 10 minutes and get the fuck out of there. ok.

 

And even still the rush of doing a passenger train and seeing people riding in your train, getting on your train, seeing your panel sitting in the main station and running in the inner city while average people look at it in disgust is uncomparable to freights.

 

what city in north america do passenger trains run bombed more than a day. let me know and ill move there tomorrow. because if the shit aint gonna run than, for me its not worth the "rush". its like crack and coke. if im gonna do that shit (which i dont) id rather be high for longer not just 5 minutes. that may be a bad analogy, but you get the bloody point.

 

Not the point. You were dissing euro trains, not american passengers. Longest Ive ever had a passenger run in the US was a day, but that was 100x better than having a freight run for 5 years. Even if it didnt run, I got my memory of doing it and my flick. All you have of your freight is a flick, too, because you do it and it leaves. Freights just dont do it for me. If its not worth the "rush" for you then go paint a legal wall. Dont forget that we are breaking the law, and we do it for a "rush", so if you dont want to move on to bigger and better highs, not my problem.

 

You might think that graffiti is more accepted in Europe but you are wrong. People fucking hate it and the government tries to stop it just as much as america if not more.

 

i just cant imagine some writers being able to start a paint company in north america. but to expand on that, i think many things that are shuned in america are accepted with open arms in europe. look at american muscians whose music flops in the states and becomes timeless in europe. just an example. no matter how you slice it europe as a society is far more open than america, as far as culture is concerned.

 

True, but you are generalizing again. Compare middle america to the coasts. Nothing alike. Things are accepted in NY and SF that would nevr be accepted in KC.

 

Of course this varies throughout europe because it is not one country, it is a continent.

 

thanks for the geography lesson, ill have to make a note of that.

 

Please do. You might stop generalizing. The attitude in Lisbon isnt the same as London. Its a continent the size of our country, but with 100 differnet cultures and languages.

 

And if you think Europeans have it easy because they pull off passenger trains and shit is bombed out there then you are wrong. The majority of europeans I have met have been the most professional, dedicated, for lack of a better word, realest writers I have ever met.

 

first of all real is a relative term. and all this means is you havent met very many real dedicated american writers.

 

You have no idea who I know and hang out with. I know more dedicated writers in America than in Europe. Much more. Chances are we know the same people. My point is, you were saying shit about European writers, but I bet you dont know any. They are just like us. They just speak a different language. Except the UK guys.

 

Not to say that the americans I have met arent, just proving you wrong when you say that they are just "euro fags" and "they have it easy over there", "they are all toys trying to hop on the US graffiti dick" . You go do a freight and it leaves, runs through farmland and the such all through america for years, but the shock to the general public isnt there. I thought thats what the "idea" of graffiti was, a big in your face fuck you to everyone. I guess it got lost somewhere. Basically... dont try to compare two things unless you have first hand experience with both.

 

first off. i dont hate euro writers. understand that first. there is little euro shit that i like stylewise, but i still dig the fact that they rock trains. what i always have to take issue with however is them [euro fags] dissing freights because they think every freight is done in some backyard daytime spot. ive been shot at by rr police in one of those so called easy back yard daytime spots. i know kids who have done bids for rocking trains (freights). i know kids who have had full on sting opperations conducted on the. kids who have had their houses raded and been hauled off to jail, all because freights are so fucken easy i guess. so quite frankly motherfuck the whole easy like sunday mornin theory. again this whole arguement/debate/discussion hinges on WHERE YOU PAINT point blank.

 

Fine where you paint freights is hot. OK.

 

but the shock to the general public isnt there. I thought thats what the "idea" of graffiti was, a big in your face fuck you to everyone.

 

^^^as far as that is concerned, you thought wrong, my good jewish friend. you should read jack stewarts dissertation on subway graffiti. it will shed light on some things for you. writing was never for the public. their eyes are just casualties of war. writing was is and always shall be for writers. thats what makes it such a unique culture. even in the subway days, writers wrote for other writers to see it. not joe public. now a days that tradition may be a little dilouted, with the whole "graffiti artist" thing, but i still hold it very dear. i dont paint to piss a rr worker off or some old lady at a rr crossing. i do it for other writers to see it. and because i like to see other writers shit. its that simple. furthermore. if there was a passenger rail service in the states that let graffiti run and ran as extensively as the freight system did dont you think we would be slaying that shit! yes we have amtrack but even if graffiti ran on it. amtrack dosent go nearly as many places as freights do. the idea is maximum exposure of the name. thats all no gimmics, no frills. that is the base for the whole thing.

 

Well, we started writing for different reasons. I never read any books on graff, I just looked at the pictures really. I dont care what you graffiti ideals are. I write to piss people off. I write for other writers to see my shit as well. But fame or no fame I dont give a shit. I do graffiti because I like it. And dont tell me you wouldnt crack a smile if you saw some lady shaking her head in disgust at your piece as it rolls by. I know that if we had the passenger system that Europe has it would be wrecked, believe me I would be taking part in it. Maximum exposure of the name? I had more people see my passenger run for one day than if it was a freight that ran for a year. Rush hour, full of people, like sardines.

 

Besides its not really who sees it, its the fun of doing it. Id rather take a bigger risk and do a passenger. Even if the freight that ran for years was just as hard as the passenger that didnt run, I would chose the passenger. Thats just my taste.

[Remi Martin]

why i like freights, by glassetch.

 

I grew up next to a active layup. Every day in the early 90s I would get strings of cars with peices, throws, fillins, productions, tags, hollows from all over the country. Dates ranged from early 80s to present day.

Talk about in your face, in many urban areas, freights are layed up where they are visible, the lay up I was talking about was on a fairly main street so every morning people stepped out there front doors to look at crushed trains. Further more, when in a freight yard you get to look at peices from all over the country. I dont write for the public to see it, I write for myself. Freight yards can get mildly heckitc, having a train with no lights mashing up behind you with no horn when your painting on live lines in a neighborhood is sketchy. Peices on freights run. Its not a waste of paint, chances are they will be seen by other writers in other lay ups again and again and again. Box cars come in all different styles and they all look cool painted end to end. To me freights are a intergral part of graffiti. I really like transit to, i havent got a chance yet, but someday....someday.

[dukeofyork]

ive watched my freights roll by people before...shits hilarious, cause yes, they do notice.

 

and one of my friends said that he saw a wholecar go by one time, and the woman next to him was freaking out pointing at it.

 

 

the point?

a freight wholecar will run for years, not days. it will probably be seen by just as many people as a whole subway car, and in different areas of the country.

 

and how do you know how hot every single layup that people paint in is chill?

lately ive had to run more often than not from spots, police cars with floodlights panning down the line of freights, hiding under railcars cause ghetto birds are flying over.

 

shit isnt as chill as everyone makes it out, and the railcops DO care.

i havent been shot at before, and i hope i never do.

 

stream of consciousness typing...if it makes any sense, ill be amazed.

[Jewish Task Force]

I dont diss freights, I just like passengers better. Basically I was attempting to defend European writers, and trains. I have nothing against you painting frieghts, shit, paint whatever you want and for whatever reason you want.

 

My Point: Just as much as you dont know about European writers and their trains, is just as much as they dont know about you and your trains. Dont talk unless you know.

[dukeofyork]

i dont even remember ever dissing europeans for painting cleans...from what i hear their freights suck, and arent worth the paint.

 

i dont see why anyone would say that you have to go to nyc and paint a sub car to be a real writer.....but hey, its all a matter of perspective. i would love to hit an nyc clean....but its not a reality. so i make do with what i have, and from the looks of things lately, going to a chill spot means driving 1/4 of the way to nyc.

[Jewish Task Force]

Chozer: you had nothing to do with it and you still dont.

[damn vandle]

Originally posted by chozer

i dont even remember ever dissing europeans for painting cleans...from what i hear their freights suck, and arent worth the paint.

 

i dont see why anyone would say that you have to go to nyc and paint a sub car to be a real writer.....but hey, its all a matter of perspective. i would love to hit an nyc clean....but its not a reality. so i make do with what i have, and from the looks of things lately, going to a chill spot means driving 1/4 of the way to nyc.

 

Hey dude, speaking of chill spots, i'd like to find some to paint. I'm in your area and I met someone that knows you but I dont think he's got your number. I'd like to get up and paint.

[Remi Martin]

.

[Jewish Task Force]

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH

I got a lot of respect for the mad savage train writers in europe.

Last night we hatched a plan that would roll a passenger train with our names on it through every station in the bay area...martinez, richmond, berekley, oakland, hayward, fremont and san jose...shit would have to be some hardcore as fuck euro tactics. but its doable.

 

Good Luck. Dont let Amtrak Police get you. Because I know its not BART.

[Remi Martin]

.

[Jewish Task Force]

Sure it can be done. You can do hollows on cop vans if you got the balls for it. Shit, you can do hollows on anything, Bart, Caltrain, Muni..... I thought you meant pieces.

[krowteN]

ive seen pix of pieces by those fsc dudes on bart. why are people not still doing them. is it because bay area writers are pussies? i tend to think not, but if you let some of these euro haters tell it it is because they are pussies. the reality is because it dosent run. if you went out every noght for a month straight ahd hit a relatively small system like the bart. and had at least a tag on every car how long do you think they would run? i think every city in north america that has rapid transit rail system has been hit. but if you go to any of these cities to peep graff running on the trains you will see nada. but, and correct me if im wrong, arent there parts of europe where pieces have been running for over a year? if the ladder is true then i rest my case. thats why americans are into freights. and yes im still bored.

[Remi Martin]

Originally posted by Jewish Task Force

Sure it can be done. You can do hollows on cop vans if you got the balls for it. Shit, you can do hollows on anything, Bart, Caltrain, Muni..... I thought you meant pieces.

 

yeah i know that, but this would be a passenger train hitting stations all through the bay. If i want to do a peice, ill go find a box car. Bart is a lot harder, next to impossible to get to run. they got so many bart cars that unless you hit it on the line in service, its not running. Muni wont run. and i dont know about caltrain.

[Jewish Task Force]

Originally posted by ZedIsDed

ive seen pix of pieces by those fsc dudes on bart. why are people not still doing them. is it because bay area writers are pussies? i tend to think not, but if you let some of these euro haters tell it it is because they are pussies. the reality is because it dosent run. if you went out every noght for a month straight ahd hit a relatively small system like the bart. and had at least a tag on every car how long do you think they would run? i think every city in north america that has rapid transit rail system has been hit. but if you go to any of these cities to peep graff running on the trains you will see nada. but, and correct me if im wrong, arent there parts of europe where pieces have been running for over a year? if the ladder is true then i rest my case. thats why americans are into freights. and yes im still bored.

 

You have no idea.

 

The consequences of hitting BART are through the roof. Basically they have their own police force that has jurisdiction over the entire Bay Area. They will investigate, they will kick down doors and raid, they will fine you shitloads of money, it will destroy your career. Ive seen it happen. BART is one of those things that just isnt worth it if you live in the Bay Area.

 

It has been done before, dont get me wrong, Im just not trying to end my career on one panel. If you know anyone from the Bay Area, ask them about Bart police. They are seriously no joke.

 

You have obviously never met any European writers.

[Jewish Task Force]

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH

 

yeah i know that, but this would be a passenger train hitting stations all through the bay. If i want to do a peice, ill go find a box car. Bart is a lot harder, next to impossible to get to run. they got so many bart cars that unless you hit it on the line in service, its not running. Muni wont run. and i dont know about caltrain.

 

 

Can I quote you on that?

[Remi Martin]

I met a couple of Cali writers that did hella panels in europe way before transit was the mad hype shit to do....

California is so dense and HOT. Cali is mad hot. Task forces that can send you to prison for 3 years for 400$ in damage, in every major city. Freights are burnt in LA, the Bay Area, Sacramento and SanDiego. Freights run here, Cali has huge freight lines, lay ups and yards. Were not talking about the hicks and the sticks, freight yards are in urban areas. Not all of us got the fade on a transatlantic ticket and hookups when we get there. And besides that, isnt Cali like 2/3's this size of the continent of europe?

'

[Remi Martin]

Originally posted by Jewish Task Force

 

 

Can I quote you on that?

 

 

i get it now...

do hollows on the line im talking about, do hollows on all the other lines.

problem with that is, my line travels around a hundred miles along citys, the other lines have cameras on them whenever they pull up, run mostly underground and rarely travel more than 20 miles.

im about my risk, i want the most for my money.

[Guest Graff Jesus]

i'll agree with the jew about bart. fuck around and do bart trains, yeah it can be done sure...but do you really want that heat on you? deal with the california legal system then tell me that's worth it for some respect from a bunch of reject loser graffiti writers.

 

the bart police will find you, fuck you, and feed you. they don't play. i'll be out doing my freights while you're in folsom prison getting your "props" from bubba.

[Mr.C-Walk]

Originally posted by Graff Jesus

 

deal with the california legal system then tell me that's worth it for some respect from a bunch of reject loser graffiti writers.

 

said perfectly.....

 

while you're in folsom prison getting your "props" from bubba.

[/quote

 

and that shit is just comedy...

[krowteN]

You have no idea.

 

oh contraer monfrer (i know its spelled wrong) i have a very good idea.

i am from NYC but i am currently going to school in a city with a similar transit system to Bart. And recently it was hit for the first time. Just like bart this system have their own police force, that has complete jurisduction over the metro area. but now they have a graff squad that was spotted shaking down toys at the local legal wall. when i first came to school, about 3 years ago i met a writer who took a tag in a station, with a marker. well long story short all the stations here are under video survalence,, from every angle. a month later my boy is waiting for the train to go to work and three rail police come out of a door behind the steps in a totally different station. they surround him arrest him and the survalence video is the prosecuting evidence. he spent 5 days in jail and is still paying on a 5000 fine. this is no bullshit because he showed me the article. and he quit behind that. a lot of times we like to think our locality is the only place where shit happens. im sure there are countless stories like this from all over the us, as well as stiff punishments issued.

 

 

BART is one of those things that just isnt worth it if you live in the Bay Area.

 

do you think the consiquences would be any less harsh for hitting any public, commuter or passenger rail system in the US...if you think so than it is really you who has no idea.

 

i have met euro writers. not many, but im basing the shit i pop on the shit they pop in here. thats all. again im not out to dis or hate on europe writers at all. just the ones that think there holier than thou because they have the luxuary of a intercontenental pessenger rail systems.

 

as far as cali i think graff-jesus summed it up great.

i have nothin but respect for anybody who still rocks shit in cali. walls trains or freights. only japan probably has stiffer penalties on graff

[grandmaster]

europes transit

 

you can get in loads of trouble painting commuters.....But the problems you will encounter if caught even doing an inside on a london subway is big.2 days in jail and seven interviews...criminal record at least

[porque]

...i think task force made the comment that the point of graff was to piss people off?... do most writers feel this way?...I know i don't... i could give a flying fuck about commons... whether they love it or hate it is of no concern to me... i paint because i love to see it... i love seeing other peoples shit...i love seeing shit that is 7 years old still running... if i went to europe i'm sure i'd wind up crushin some cleans and gettin into the whole aspect of being a real criminal, because at heart that is what we are...at least to society... graffiti is a product of the society that contains it...i find it quite amusing that graff in america started on the subways, and then moved to the walls and streets and now freights, while graff in europe started on the walls and moved to the subways...there are two completely different forces at work in euro graff and american graff, and for that matter japanese, austrailian, southamerican, african, and everyother location on the planet...you can not undersatnd what you can not experience...

[porque]

^possibly incoherent rambling on a subject^

 

 

...sorry for any confusion...

[Guest Graff Jesus]

Re: europes transit

 

Originally posted by grandmaster

you can get in loads of trouble painting commuters.....But the problems you will encounter if caught even doing an inside on a london subway is big.2 days in jail and seven interviews...criminal record at least

 

 

HAHAHAH oh god a WHOLE TWO DAYS IN JAIL. AND A CRIMINAL RECORD! MY LORD!

 

i know kids who have FELONY CONVICTIONS for graffiti. kids who have done MORE THAN A YEAR IN JAIL for graff. 2 days ain't shit.

[porque]

^^^he also said they have to go through SEVEN interviews...that's no light load man...just two interviews would keep me from catchin a tag...

[note: read with sarcasm]

 

 

...i know kids that did two days in jail just waiting to be formally charged...

[dukeofyork]

Originally posted by Jewish Task Force

Chozer: you had nothing to do with it and you still dont.

 

 

this is good news, right??

:confused:

 

either way, all i know is that i painted a bunch of freights this weekend, and damn if i didnt have fun.

[Jewish Task Force]

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH

 

 

i get it now...

do hollows on the line im talking about, do hollows on all the other lines.

problem with that is, my line travels around a hundred miles along citys, the other lines have cameras on them whenever they pull up, run mostly underground and rarely travel more than 20 miles.

im about my risk, i want the most for my money.

 

 

Hollows? Dude, hollows aint shit. If Im talking about painting passengers, Im doing pieces, or at least, at least a fill in. Im about my risk, too. Thats why I want nothing less than a fill in. Fuck a hollow.

[Jewish Task Force]

Originally posted by GLASS*ETCH

I met a couple of Cali writers that did hella panels in europe way before transit was the mad hype shit to do....

Transit has always been tops on my list. I started out hopping busses. Didnt the graff as we know it today start on transit? Transit has always been the "mad hype shit to do".

...................................................................Not all of us got the fade on a transatlantic ticket and hookups when we get there.

I saved money for a long time to get out there and first time I went there I didnt have many hookups at all, at least not for trains.places to stay, yes.

And besides that, isnt Cali like 2/3's this size of the continent of europe?

Europe is about the size of the continental US.

[Jewish Task Force]

Originally posted by ZedIsDed

You have no idea.

 

oh contraer monfrer (i know its spelled wrong) i have a very good idea.

i am from NYC but i am currently going to school in a city with a similar transit system to Bart. And recently it was hit for the first time. Just like bart this system have their own police force, that has complete jurisduction over the metro area. but now they have a graff squad that was spotted shaking down toys at the local legal wall. when i first came to school, about 3 years ago i met a writer who took a tag in a station, with a marker. well long story short all the stations here are under video survalence,, from every angle. a month later my boy is waiting for the train to go to work and three rail police come out of a door behind the steps in a totally different station. they surround him arrest him and the survalence video is the prosecuting evidence. he spent 5 days in jail and is still paying on a 5000 fine. this is no bullshit because he showed me the article. and he quit behind that. a lot of times we like to think our locality is the only place where shit happens. im sure there are countless stories like this from all over the us, as well as stiff punishments issued.

 

ok, I take it back.

 

BART is one of those things that just isnt worth it if you live in the Bay Area.

 

do you think the consiquences would be any less harsh for hitting any public, commuter or passenger rail system in the US...if you think so than it is really you who has no idea.

 

not saying it isnt. just saying that if you live in the Bay Area, its not smart to hit BART. Just like if you live in NY its dangerous to hit the subway. Its just a bit easier to cover your tracks in NY. More Writers, more people, and MUCH bigger system. Im sure Septa, the DC metro, Chicago, Baltimore, and Atlanta MARTA subways have their dangers as well. But trust me, BART police really is no joke.

 

i have met euro writers. not many, but im basing the shit i pop on the shit they pop in here. thats all. again im not out to dis or hate on europe writers at all. just the ones that think there holier than thou because they have the luxuary of a intercontenental pessenger rail systems.

 

fine, I understand, but its just like you "dissing what you dont know about"

 

as far as cali i think graff-jesus summed it up great.

i have nothin but respect for anybody who still rocks shit in cali. walls trains or freights. only japan probably has stiffer penalties on graff [/b]

[asteelhorse]

jew jesus have fucking laid it down about bart.

bart police will find you, fuck you and feed you...

yep.if you fuck with any bart property...they will fucking find you...seen and heard of this so many times...anyway they are right.on all of this thread.you other guys do not know what you are talking about.and yes in cali the state will send your ass to jail for years.