Guest HESHIANDET Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 jesus man, hope you start feeling a little better. get at me when your back in philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples-galore Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Jobe, hey man..I don't know what to say....I hope you get well real soon. If you ever need or want someone to talk to or just shoot the shit, you know how to get ahold of me. . . . . . i really have no idea what to say.......this took me by suprise. damn. .....this world can't afford to lose people like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Fire Inside Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Wow... I only talked to Jobe once and that was in an e-mail... I was just going to e-mail you again today actually... but now that has no importance. I really don't know what to say... I just hope you better yourself. Peace be with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donniefrisco Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 times do seem to get better... Keep your head up...or down...Do what ever makes you happy man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt45oe800 Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 i didnt really read everyones responses on it seemed like everyone was just saying get better.... i dont know boxcarwilly and im not going to pretend too, but if theres one thing i can say..... "it could always be worse" no matter who you are or where your from the suburbs to the ghetto your life could always be worse... so be happy where you are at the moment cause shit man you could be in ethiopia in a war-lord driven society or in columbia where your life means shit compared to cocaine... so god damn go out being happy your fucking alive....boxcar willy i wish you the best and hope you realize that now its better to be alive than anything else... cause after life there is no adventure.... adventure is only now, so go out and climb that wall and paint that train and drink that beer, and enjoy it all while its at your finger tips, dont try to end the greatest oppurtunity you have"Life" its better than any job you'll ever have or any girlfriend, drug.... Why because its a combination of them all. So Live it on up like you should... I know i am... hope this makes someone finally REALIZE peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshy Posted April 10, 2002 Share Posted April 10, 2002 Originally posted by colt45oe800 "it could always be worse" no matter who you are or where your from the suburbs to the ghetto your life could always be worse... So Live it on up like you should... peace colt, i agree that you should live it up in life. i dont know boxcar either, but i feel for him. the weird thing about life is that it is so relative to one's own situation. "it could be worse" is totally true, but a lot of times, you feel "it could be better" also. it is sooooo difficult to remememember that life can good sometimes. it is very hard, when you feel like shit, to actually feel that things could be worse, b/c in a way, by doing that, you would not be paying attention to your own pain... everyone take care>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODW Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 keep your head up willy. i can relate to how you feel but trust me, things will get better. just get some help and dont be afraid to talk to friends. stick it out, life is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Ass Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 As an older guy than most people on this board, and having been through a period of severe depression, I can offer some thoughts based on my experiences. Take them for what they're worth. I don't believe western doctors or eastern doctors or shrinks have the answers, but I am none of those, so I can't dismiss their judgments offhand. What I offer is a mix of experience and opinion. I believe first of all that the human brain is immensely complex, and since there is enormous variety in personality and other individual traits, there must be a great deal of variety in cases of psychosis and how they manifest themselves. That is, everyone's psychological problems are not alike, they are as different and original as each human, despite sharing some basic characteristics. Western doctors are overanxious to categorize shit, calling it dysthymia this or schizo-that, but I think they already fail just by trying to label everything, and make uniform the treatment for everything in the same category. Which is usually drugs, and I think that's also full of shit. My biggest, strongest belief, based on my experience, is that you CANNOT know whether you hate life, in your right mind, unless you have been completely sober (no alcohol or prescription or illegal or even strong over-the-counter drugs) for ONE FULL YEAR or more. I want to back this point by giving the nutshell version of my story. From college onward, over a 5-year period, I liked to drink heavily, and the frequency with which I drank picked up steadily. It was fun for a long time and therefore became a habit. After a couple years though I seemed to be floundering in life, shit wasn't going right - women, money, school, personal achievement, society in general were all fucking with me. A couple of bad months lined up in a row and I felt like shit, I was deeply depressed. I considered suicide, although in my case it seemed like too much work to bother. I thought about people cleaning up my carcass afterward, and just didn't want to even put them through that. My particular take on depression was very apathetic; I sat in a chair for hours, unable to muster the motivation to stand. Nothing was enjoyable, and when it got dark out I either started getting anxious or started getting drunk. My philosophical take on suicide during this period was eerily similar to yours: very logical and simple. If death is and end to suffering, and an end to pleasure, and my life is more than 50% suffering with little or no chance of improvement, then suicide is the logical choice. Not a desperate or emotional act - just a simple improvement on the status quo. I believe now that my philosophy was flawed, for this reason: I was depressed at that time, and therefore unable to objectively evaluate myself and my prospects. However, my logical approach to all things - even depression - helped me out. In fact, it was the only thing that got me through. I was in the middle of a severe anxiety attack one day, when a small kernel of my brain spoke up: What happened to you? There used to be a you who could enjoy the sunshine, the taste of food, the company of friends, and had high hopes for the future. Where did that person go? Clearly we are severely depressed, this was brought on by the biochemical damage to the brain caused by heavy drinking, and we must quit all substances long enough for the brain to heal, which takes a long time. I am probably not a capable judge of my own emotional status until I endure at least a year of sobriety. Now, this didn't exactly bring hope - I couldn't feel hope in my deadened emotional state. What I believed was that since my brain was damaged from alcohol abuse, I could not trust it to give me an accurate reading of how happy I was. I needed to give it all the time it needed to heal, and then and only then would I decide if life was worth continuing. A year of sobriety was a hard, hard experiment to undertake, especially from a terrible emotional state. But I was convinced of the logic. So, without AA (I heard they had a God angle, which turned me off), without a shrink or doctor, without my family even knowing, without much support from friends, I gave up booze after a couple of tries. Every time anxiety or anger or despair hit, I said to myself, "These emotions are fake, or at least greatly exaggerated, due to chemical imbalances in my brain. My brain needs the full year off. Life sucks right now but ride it out." I tried to analyze the life problems I had previously blamed for depression, and really none of them were any worse than before I started drinking heavily. There was still no hope - I still felt like shit, like a fragile zombie. I just trusted my intelligence to have found the solution, and that gave me the discipline to go the full year without substances. The first three months were hell. Everything continued to look bleak and empty, but out of sheer inertia I stuck to my experiment. Then it seemed like the bad days were moderating a bit, and were less frequent. The second three months there was noticeable improvement in moods, and after that there was steady improvement. After the first year of sobriety I felt 90% normal, and the remaining 10% trickled in over the second year. By "normal" I mean that I regained hope for the future, enjoyed things and sensations again, and while I was not happy all the time, my emotions varied to a normal degree - that is, I could handle bad news without collapsing, and bad moods were no more common than good moods. It's been over five years now. I reject my earlier philosophy about suicide, logical though it seemed. I was right: in the depths of the depression, I was not qualified to decide whether to end my life. Now, back to my first premise: that was my particular flavor of depression, and maybe it was unique. I found a way out that worked for me - maybe it wouldn't for someone else. If you were a strightedge vegan for years before attempting suicide, then substance abuse was not the trigger for your depression. However: I believe that ANY depression serious enough to make someone think of suicide (from either an emotional or logical standpoint) IS a situation of chemical imbalance in the brain. Therefore, if you are depressed, you are not a competent judge of your own will to live, and you cannot be until your brain is chemically back to normal. Western doctors might even buy my last statement, but their first knee-jerk reaction will be to prescribe drugs. As you might guess from my story, I think this is the wrong approach, UNLESS a full year of sobriety has already been tried without an improvement in emotional stability. For another take on an articulate person who suffered severe, suicidal depression and anaylsed himself and his condition in writing, read "Darkness Visible" by William Styron. If anything in my story or his resonates with you at all, then seriously consider my approach, or his, to moving on. The idea I want to leave you with is that there IS a future in which you can like life more than you do now, if you can find a way past chemical imbalances; and if you ARE depressed, and you DO have those imbalances, then you are NOT a competent judge of whether you should live or die, regardless of your stance on the morality of suicide. (I don't have a moral problem with suicide, but the pitfall to watch out for is that only someone of sound mind can be the judge of whether to step out, say for reasons of failing physical health. And most people of sound mind do not opt for self-destruction, because there is still joy to be had.) I wish you well...and I hope to hell you see this, because it took me an hour and a half to write it. Think about it, and try to get ahold of that Styron book for more insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEO DOOM Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Jobes, I hope you doing better. You have always been a good person to me. I know how life can get heavy, trust me my life gets way too overbearing at points. And those points seem to come way more often then I care to talk about. You are true, without a dought. We never got close or anything but always had mutual respect for each other. You got to know this is not the right way. The path is at your feet,so stomp as hard as you fuckin' can when you go down it! ONE LOVE Wet Ones:king: :crazy: :king: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxcarwilly Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 i will reply further about the progress (regress) of things i just wanted to thank everyone again for their words. things are not getting better in fact they have just rocketed downhill. this is not to make anyone feel bad this is to let people who have expressed concern for my well being know that it is shitty right now. a quick note to cracked: (there will be more this is just as it says a quick note) ive been sxe my entire life, ive been vegan for about 5 out of six yrs. i do credit lifestyle to a lot which is why i am attempting to fast a large portion of my worries away. displacement therapy for now, replacing the shit with anything i can even if it is hunger, just so i can see "my glue" through her problems too. besides when you go on a long fast or alter your diet to a sacrificial position, ie vegan raw food fruitarian etc, you appreciate things like the sun because how it hits a peaches fuzz. but nature is beautiful i will never deny the inherent goodness and beauty in that, humanity being an oppressively opposing force (of recent) to nature is thus inherently evil and does not get the same respect the same notion of beauty. theres more to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 hey everyone..... boxcar is such a cool guy..i am really sorry to hear about all the tough times.. should we all get together a boxcarwilly project? like the 12oz journals project he wanted to start? ...we could send him some "feel better homie" packages or sketches or whatever..where can we send em? is anyone willing to receive some stuff for him and get it too him? .................. although i don't know you boxcar, i understand how painful life can be..and the exasperation, pain, and desparation that leads one to become suicidal.. you are obviously a tremendously thoughtful and sensitive person i hope that you find your way through this mess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I'm just another faceless name on a message board, and I'm sure you probably don't even know who the fuck I am, but get better soon, man. I don't like to see this shit happen to anyone..... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serum Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 i don't know you personally but i do know that you obviously have searched for happiness. you didn't cop out, you have been pushing on all along. veganism, sxe, krsna. in common with myself i also have crossed the same path as you. i was sxe for 5 years, vegan for 10 years, and i lived in the krishna temple for 6 months. i am far from happy and i feel as if everyday i could fall off the edge. the only thing that has saved me is my endless search to be happy, thus i moved to a foreign country. you have searched many doors but remember that you haven't searched them all. for the moment try to remember the happiness that you might have had in the past and try to tap into that instead of searching for new happiness. i wish you the best of luck and happiness in the future. crying out holy name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYE Posted April 13, 2002 Share Posted April 13, 2002 Sad to hear. Willy if you read this man keep your head up don't let the negative aspects of life get you down. Stay strong and may God help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diggity Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 posted for point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest railroadjerk Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 thats fresh! get better jobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYE Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Nice tribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 1 thing sure Boxcar..you got good friends...i really hope you'll catch that baby benching someday, randomly and peacefully! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest serpent of the light Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 wow. get well bro. i've been there man, i don't know what to say, it doesn't always get better. this may seem out of place, but as slayer said, "wanting to die is a reason to live," i had a discussion with my friend this weekend on pain. he said to me something so basic, but something rarely looked upon. pain is the substance of life, without it we cannot even experience the simplest of joys. take joy in the small things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abracadabra Posted April 15, 2002 Share Posted April 15, 2002 suicide is not good. my cousin killed himself just before xmas last year, so i know how much it affects family and friends. it's good to hear your attempt was unsuccessful, and i hope you recover and realise that the people around you need you here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest expansionAE Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 willy.. yo man, though i dont know you.. much respect from me.. take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drip one Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 yo jobe man. dont do shit like that. remember a problem is a problem only when you see it as a problem. life is a bunch of shit. sometimes its good to get a laugh out of it. cause you and i know its shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Try to keep in good spirits my friend... and do what you have to do to stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sectorTVA Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 best wishes....ive had similar experiences...not me myself, but people close to me...so, definately get well soon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal_Man Posted April 20, 2002 Share Posted April 20, 2002 Get well soon, i know some kid in a differnent gr8 class than me who tried to comit and he is one of the coolest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizOne Posted April 21, 2002 Share Posted April 21, 2002 I had two friends apparently commit suicide. I say apparently because both suicides came with no warning and no explanation. But there was nothing suspicious about it so chances are they did kill themselves. One was Dean Taylor. It was the end of the freshman year in high school. Me and Dean had been friends for a few years but recently we had started becoming closer friends. We made plans to go visit this wall that is pretty close to our school after school was out. I hooked him up with hella stickers I had and told him, "see you tomorrow..." He responded a little awkward but said "yeah okay!" Later that night I guess he had hung himself in his fathers garage. It came out of nowhere. I went to school the next morning and everyone was crying but I didn't want to ask why and no one was telling me. I went to class and someone asked the teacher what happened. She said that one of the freshman students had commited suicide. I was even thinking about Dean. He was a little strange but he seemed really happy. I had no idea. The teacher said his name and I was stuck. After sitting there for about 10 seconds not knowing what to do I left school... Dean was 14 years old. Then one year later another friend of mine, Jake Landsiedel, also commited suicide. Apparently he couldn't handle the family problems he was having. His grandfather recently passed away and he had family split up and living in different states. I don't know the story, and Jake didn't leave an explanation either as far as I know. Jake was 15. It's really sad. Especially knowing that if they wouldn't have commited suicide, they would have eventually been able to deal with whatever problems they were having. Suicide is not an answer to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KONFLIKT Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 for te writers................................... read into it. You know whats going on!!!! thanks for the real. For you that dont know, Just stop... And think about the words. study think realize If you dont know whats goning on, than leave...................... thoughts are gold, -Kon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEO DOOM Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Jobe, Just checkin' in on ya. How are things going? It sucks only being able to contact on 12oz. I would like to talk to in person or even on the phone. I have had way to many friends get into problems like this(i.e.Child). I hate to see true ,talented people face situations like this. I have been through alot of very fucked up situations that nobody knows about. Trust me I can relate. I really want to help you get back on your feet. Pease give me an Email. wesfunk2000@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteenvandals Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 hey willy. i agree with most of what you are saying about suicide, but for me the benefits of of living outweigh the faults of life. one thing i will say though is that: when you are depressed for no apparent reason (which it sounds like you are) this is a CHEMICAL problem. the chemistry in your brain/body needs correction. there is medication that has been proven to balance that chemical defect. i like that you are trying to handle it without medication, but why not try it out and see if it helps? are you skeptical because of your SxE politics? if so then SxE is actually a harmful lifestyle to you rather that a positive one. anyways, i totally know what you mean when you talk about being vegan making you appreciate elements of nature.... alright cool. 16v. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxcarwilly Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 thanks again to everyone who has shown support and given words. it does mean something regardless of my vapid morbidity. i do understand that some aspects of my creative process is appreciated. that has always been there, its a sign of cyclical manic-depression. i'll address some of the individual questions and concerns: 16vandals: i dont know if i spoke of my standpoint on chemical dependency, i do and dont agree with it as a means to correct mental imbalances, one of those dichotomies that i just cannot step past. i think if the proper evidence is presented to me saying i need these pills otherwise i will degrade into nothingness... then i may consider taking them, when i explained this to one of the people involved in my treatment they said that this was actually a wise decision and wish more people would come in with some form of head on there shoulders i looked at her and said she is dealing with crazy people, but she is also dealing with a lot of people who are chemically dependent, which i fortunately am not, yet. i do understand that there are biological mechanics of head problems... and so if my problem stems from biology i will take drugs. i know they wanted me on prozac the day i left the hospital in philly... this isnt my idea of treatment the doctor talked to me for a total of seven minutes... diagnosed me wrong with dysthymia/cyclothymia and that isnt what my current label in the great big system of drug pushers and head shrinkers it. basically my new label is "chronic severe depressive comma recurrent with unfound elements" basically meaning that all the OCD i never thought i had manifests itself even stronger when things get bad, all the bipolarity comes out even stronger, all the suicide thoughts that hit everyday hit twice somethimes thousand times more. i am seeking help, but seemingly like everything else in my desparate attempt to stay among the living i get forgotten and failed upon, lost somewhere in the case files, somewhere in peoples hearts, its basically the same old shit but with more scars. so i have a complete lack of faith in terms of trusting doctors to deal with my head, its why i run to other things, new holes in my body, new diets, new drawing projects etc. i think my ideal of purity exists on a whole different level then most sxe kids. alot of kids that i have known go through it as a fad and dont implement any forms of mental purity in it. i think sxe does a good job for me of keeping tendencies i know would come out under control. and like i said if there is an educated way to get me to pop pills, or drown in lithium induced kidney damage then ill do it... but it will take a lot. biz, tribal and mr abc- aside from being the clinically wrong thing to say to someone suicidal ive been hearing it for the past 9 years dont kill yourself it doesnt solve anything it isnt good. which is more selfish to want someone to suffer through what they are going through so you can gain something by their existence in your life or to allow them to "selfishly" end their own suffering on their own time leaving you with nothing. i do not feel that i have an obligation to make a statement in anyones life so therefore offing myself is not selfish to me it isnt bad or good it is a means to an end. but judging from your posts you all seem somewhat young and havent really had a chance to let times run its icy claws through your veins... or maybe you have and are just more able to cope with situations. we are all different manifestations, but you cannot deny that our one goal, (bodily) is to end up six feet deep there is no bodily immortality and so to just speed it along is just helping out mother nature. serpent- the pain issue is something i wouldnt mind having a discussion on, if you have the discovery channel watch the body piercing program it was on like three times last nite, allen faulkner says some really good stuff about how our society doesnt teach us how to deal with pain except escapism. and that sometimes what we think is pain is only a sensation that we havent learned to deal with. i thought it pretty well summed up why i am interested in suspensions and piercing and tattooing... tho it also exists as a form of escapism displacing mental anguish for physical substance. its therapy however shortlived. serum- i think alot of the conflicts that exist in my life are due to introductions to certain spiritual paths not that i would ever blame suicide on an introduction to gods most beautiful incarnation and radharani but i think it adds to the aforementioned burdens, but right now out of all the burdens that do exist thats the most forgiving because i can pick up a postcard or something from when i was in india and just look at radharani and just now. i cut my wrists in front of my gaura nitai with hopes of me glancing up at them and darmastra nrsimha relieving some of my karma when i finally croak, id probably end up a ghost but the story of chota haridas has always been appealing. my guru is extremely nervous and worried about me but it isnt something i can handle right now. i do agree with your door analogy but when you have opened doors for 24 yrs and there has always been fire where you thought there would be water you get hesitant and guarded to open the next one. things have been real real dichotomous and its become my favorite word. because thats how it is and it sticks out so bad. one minute i want things to get better and they seem like they will. the next its into the corner with the nerve damage and head shit. reading helps put words to it drawing helps if my arms dont fucking hurt. there is a good book out there called touched by fire, its about the feelings of manic depressive personalities and the creative process. alot of shit falls through and keeps falling im just waiting for that break to come. thanks to everyone who have attempted to crutch me along the way... i know im just really heavy for a lot of people. "i am groaning under the miseries of a diseased nervous system; a system of all others the most essential to our happiness or the most productive of our Misery... Lord what is Man! today, in the luxuriance of health, exulting in the enjoyment of existence. In a few days , perhaps a few hoursloaded with conscious painful being, counting the tardy pace of the lingering moments, by the repercussion of anguish and refusing or being denied a Comforter. day follows night and night comes after day only to curse him with life which gives him no pleasure" robert burns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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