The US Government's Drug War

[High Priest]

... ehh

[Guest HESHIANDET]

thank god that pesky prohibition thing got cleared up before i was born...

[Guest SPLINTER]

i think hard drugs would just suddenly disappear once the amount of people whose life is messed up by drugs is not hidden to the kids (when its a relative) because its an illegal action, the kids wont want to do it because they know. someone said that no company would print a logo on a hard drug, this is probably true so no one will actually sell the drugs at big stores. it will be kind of like buying a strandge fruit or vegetible from its farmer IF the citizens are allowed to make and sell the drugs. if not then this would be a great problem like they said around security of govt stores that sell the product. but then again if prices go way down then you wont need to jack. drunks and smokers jack too but not as much as crackheads so even if drugs were sold at the price of tobacco or alcohol no one would really jack as much as they do now.

 

availibility to minors

 

to say that the availibility to minors would increase has little weight behind it. ask any kid around from age 11 to 17, which is harder to get, weed or the zig zags needed to smoke it? theyll say the zig zags since theyre not legal to sell to minors. yet the drug is easier to obtain because its illegal to anyone and dealers dont check id. so if the drugs were legalized there would be a legal usage age. which means that most places that card cigarattes and beer will card weed and coke. yes you will have small time dealer who make their money from selling exclusively to kids but it wont work out for them. the reason high school dealers can deal is because their bosses have dealers in college and dealers for adult crowds, these two consumer groups are now eliminated so 2/3 of the money is gone so it wont be worth the risk to sell to minors.

[Smart]

Originally posted by Smart

I would like to point out that in countries where legalization has been implemented, the rise in drug use was marginal in the beginning and followed by a decline in ALL cases...

 

ALL CASES! AND, related crime has decreased too.

[Smart]

oh, and by the way, England is considering, pretty much passing, the idea of lowering the criminal liability of marijuana. I'm pretty sure there's a motion in Parliament, if it hasn't already passed, to move MJ to the same class as steroids, illegal on paper, but rarely enforced...

 

 

 

and... I'm willing to face up to tobacco and alcohol, anyone no willing is just a shook ninja

[Smart]

Bodice Ripper, sing along! aka Who the FUCK is Alice!

 

I'm a rambler, I'm a gambler, I'm a long way from home

and if you don't like me then leave me alone

I'll eat when I'm hungry, I'll drink when I'm dry

and if whiskey don't kill me, I'll live 'till I die...

[dai]

personally, i don't want to see drugs legal at all. i would like to see them decriminalized, but definately not legal. look what alcohol does to people, it tears there whole life apart, and its easily accesible. do you think we'd remain productive to society if we were all gettin based up and high instead of coffee in the morning? believe me, i've done my fair share of drugs, and i still do. i enjoy what i do, and i'll continue you to do so until i feel its become a problem or hassle. even if drugs were legalized, they'd have strict regulations and taxes on it. you'd have to be 21, and its not like you'd be able to walk down the street or smoke a joint on the way to work, it'd be just like alcohol. keep them illegal, i have no problem getting what i need, and i dont mind the prices i pay.

[Guest wakassOATH]

i didnt read the whole thread but i got mixed opinions

first i dont think the goverenment should tell me what i can or cannot do with my body.

 

but I thik that one con you posted isnt worth it.. if we legalized all these drugs reaaallll bad things would happen reaaaallll fast

 

i wouldent want to live in a society where everyone is on crack or halusanating

[Guest Firetruck]

all you fucks that think everyones gonna be stoned are doofarts. I've seen on the news and tv hundreds of times where the people say that the nuber of drug users wouldn't change if there was legal. they say the people who do drugs do drugs, snd the people that dont don't, and it's not gonna change weather its legal or not because its like proabition, people that drank kept drinking

[Guest wakassOATH]

^^^^

dont kid yourself.

if drugs went legal.. more people would use them

[secn]

I didnt read all this but fuck the drug war, its just a bunch of greedy bastards that found out they can make a buck of stopping the drug movement.Dont get me wrong im sure a few actually care about others well being , but the majority are in it for the money.And trust me those bastards get alot out of busts.Peace!

[EatMorGlue]

Originally posted by wakassOATH

^^^^

dont kid yourself.

if drugs went legal.. more people would use them

this is actually false.

 

there are a few states that decriminalized marijuana in the 70's. i'm not sure about the others, but i believe in my state that any amount of pot found on you up to an ounce and a half is a misdemeanor offense, punishable by fines and classes. after decriminalization took effect, there was no significant rise in marijuana use, rather there was a slight decline in use.

 

or look at amsterdam. the US (fighting a drug war) consistently has higher PER CAPITA hard drug users than amsterdam (relaxed stance on soft drugs).

 

these numbers and figures are published and out there. the government knows all this. and i bring this up every time the drug war is discussed on here, but every single OBJECTIVE, government-funded study over the past century investigating the phenomenon of marijuana use has recommended that the government NOT criminalized adults for recreational use. the government knows all this.

 

For anyone who still feels prohibition is still better than education, prevention and treatment, think about several questions and try to come up with real answers to post to justify this unwinnable drug war: What are your standards of failure for the current drug policy? At what point should we call for reform? How many more BILLIONS of dollars (btw.. in case you didn't know, we're spending $40bill EACH YEAR on this) must we spend before drug abuse goes away? And how many more millions of Americans must go to jail before we declare victory?

 

"Serious drug use has continued unabated and has in fact worsened . . . Meanwhile the 'victories' claimed by the war's proponents have been slim at best and most appear, upon closer investigation, not to have been the results of these programs at all." - Bruce Bullington, editor of the Journal of Drug Issues

 

"Both Bush and Gore admit to having broken the drug laws when they were young and irresponsible. And yet in Texas and Tennessee dozens of people are rotting in prison for possession and use of marijuana. The question is obvious: why does Bush or Gore deserve to be President while these people deserve to stay in jail?" -Ralph Nader

[Guest Ted Wakowski]

I think kids should learn a great deal about drugs at an early age, in frank, no-holds-barred discussions with the morality angle absent. Here is what drugs do to you - short-term pleasure. Hangover, withdrawal. The desire to do more. Medical problems users can expect - NOT as a scare tactic, just the factual information.

 

 

Plus they need to SEE what happens to drug users first hand. Take kids on field trips to NA meetings and to hospitals where drug addicts are coughing up blood and dying from heart failure. Show them uncensored videos of gang shootouts over the drugs they're buying or gruesome fottage of dead crack babies. Take them out to the ghetto and show them what drugs do to communities. Bring "exploded hearts" into classrooms in glass containers so kids can see what O.D.'ing on coke really does to the body.

 

Drug education just needs to be tougher all around -- less of this weak, "politically correct," tip-toing-around-the-issue bullshit you find right now.

[Guest imported_El Mamerro]

Originally posted by Ted Wakowski

Drug education just needs to be tougher all around -- less of this weak, "politically correct," tip-toing-around-the-issue bullshit you find right now.

 

See, I don't think this would work either. I do agree with you and Cracked that it's a much better way than the current toned-down and laughable approach, but this "In your face" policy is very often used and is still largely uneffective. You've heard of those horrific movies they show drunk drivers and some high school kids of corpses and mangled bodies in car accidents and shit. Has drunk driving significantly decreased? No. The current approach is incredibly stupid, childish, and ineffective, but I don't believe a serious approach will be THAT much better. Still, it should be tried out.

 

A kid who wants to get high will get high. Beer,

 

El Mamerro

[C-O-K PBScru]

KRS 1 DID SAID COCANE BiSUNESS CONTROLS AMERIKKKA

[Guest Ted Wakowski]

Originally posted by El Mamerro

 

See, I don't think this would work either. I do agree with you and Cracked that it's a much better way than the current toned-down and laughable approach, but this "In your face" policy is very often used and is still largely uneffective. You've heard of those horrific movies they show drunk drivers and some high school kids of corpses and mangled bodies in car accidents and shit. Has drunk driving significantly decreased? No. The current approach is incredibly stupid, childish, and ineffective, but I don't believe a serious approach will be THAT much better. Still, it should be tried out.

 

A kid who wants to get high will get high. Beer,

 

El Mamerro

 

Maybe the lack of results comes from those types of things being usually shown in special circumstances, as opposed to on a fairly regular basis. Picture having "gruesome drug-related death class" at schools as part of regular curriculum. Sure, it would disturb the hell out of some kids but I bet it makes them think twice before sniffing coke -- even if they are still gonna do it. I guess I think it's just another thing that could be done along with a grip of others.

 

But I agree with the "Beer" statement. Indeed, Beer,

 

El Wakowsko

[Guest SPLINTER]

Originally posted by Ted Wakowski

 

 

Plus they need to SEE what happens to drug users first hand. Take kids on field trips to NA meetings and to hospitals where drug addicts are coughing up blood and dying from heart failure. Show them uncensored videos of gang shootouts over the drugs they're buying or gruesome fottage of dead crack babies. Take them out to the ghetto and show them what drugs do to communities. Bring "exploded hearts" into classrooms in glass containers so kids can see what O.D.'ing on coke really does to the body.

 

Drug education just needs to be tougher all around -- less of this weak, "politically correct," tip-toing-around-the-issue bullshit you find right now.

 

nah i doubt that would work.why? because i live in one on these communitites torn apart by drug violence. ive been close enuff to the bullets. ive seen the junkies and shit, and so have most of the people from my city yet some still do drugs and some dont, its prolly splits 50/50 and that wont change.

[Guest Ted Wakowski]

Yeah maybe you're right. What about a mandatory death penalty for all drug users? I bet that would work wonders...

[Smart]

Originally posted by Ted Wakowski

Yeah maybe you're right. What about a mandatory death penalty for all drug users? I bet that would work wonders...

 

the only REAL deternt of crime is a fear of being caught, the death penalty is straight revenge, you're not gonna stop anyone from doing drugs, just kill the ones who do, recipe for revolution...

[Smart]

Originally posted by Ted Wakowski

 

Maybe the lack of results comes from those types of things being usually shown in special circumstances, as opposed to on a fairly regular basis. Picture having "gruesome drug-related death class" at schools as part of regular curriculum. Sure, it would disturb the hell out of some kids but I bet it makes them think twice before sniffing coke -- even if they are still gonna do it. I guess I think it's just another thing that could be done along with a grip of others.

 

But I agree with the "Beer" statement. Indeed, Beer,

 

El Wakowsko

 

no way, people can smell hyped up propaganda shit, they only leave with a larger sence of being lied to... better would be successful people, willing to admit their drug use, laying out the pro's and con's... with the music industry pushing fucked up role models down every kids throat, it's awfully hard to convince a teenager that drug use may hurt their career... what we need is thruth, and not that politically slanted anti-tobacco orinted 'truth' seeking loves so much, I mean the straight facts, honesty

[Smart]

Originally posted by Ted Wakowski

Drug education just needs to be tougher all around -- less of this weak, "politically correct," tip-toing-around-the-issue bullshit you find right now.

 

education is not inherently 'tough' or 'soft'... it's simply facts, take what you get... SEE what happened to Keith Richards? Lou Reed? Whitney Huston? Bobby Brown?... best believe they a got at least a million more dollars than you...

[Brownbread?]

cant say that i fully agree with legalization of drugs but its worth a try. will it end our drug problem? doubt it. but it would probably provide better results than what the government is currently doing.but the problem i have with legalizing drugs is how will this get rid of addicts or decrease drug use? since companies are going to be making money from selling these drugs its going to become a big business just like the tobacco industry. Regardless of how many anti-drug programs they put out these companies are gonna make drugs look more attractive.if drugs became as legal as alcohol it'd be real fucked to put the tv on and see commercials for heroin or a Joe Camel for crack.

 

and like somebody already said, what do you do with the people in prison for drug related crimes?

[Smart]

Originally posted by Brownbread?

the problem i have with legalizing drugs is how will this get rid of addicts or decrease drug use?

 

it won't, but at least we'll free up the resources to fund education/ rehab programs that will EFFECTIVELY combat the REAL problem, the 'crime' is a non-issue when compared to issues of addiction or habit, the 'crime' is only an issue in so much as it's a 'crime'

[Guest willy.wonka]

why wont they ever legalize pot!!!!

 

its kinda of a statement these day...not a question.a question within a statement.

[KaBar]

Well, after my foray into the topic of lawbreaking and prison conditions, I may have pissed off everybody on this board, but I tend to agree with Mr. Cracked on the issue of drugs. By outlawing drugs, society is attempting to prevent people from doing something that the Powers-That-Be consider unhealthy and antisocial. Personally, I couldn't care less if a drug addict wants to destroy himself with drugs and alcohol, as long as he doesn't take anybody else with him by the means of driving while intoxicated or something of that nature. Marijuana, cocaine, heroin, whatever--as long as the user doesn't harm anyone else, I say legalize it. It will save us a ton of money, hassle and taxes.

Right now the LEGAL drugs are the big killers. Tobacco kills 440,000 Americans a year and is a gigantic revenue generator. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) is the number two agency in terms of generating revenue, right behind the IRS. Nothing would please me more than seeing them disappear off the face of the earth, broken up into little sub-offices of Customs, the GAO and so on.

Alcohol is directly responsible for or contributes to, the death of probably 100,000 citizens a year. Drunk drivers kill about 10,000.

At the most, the "hard" drugs like heroin and cocaine only kill about 20,000 or so, or rather, those 20,000 kill themselves with cocaine and heroin. We'd be much better off without all these laws about drugs. If somebody wants to destroy themselves with dope, I say "More power to ya! Be my guest!" However, like with Prohibition, as long as the laws exist, they are enforced. No way in this world would I risk my liberty (such as it is) for something so pointless and insubstantial as dope, and I advise everybody else to steer clear of it too. I think, though, if most drugs were de-criminalized, they would probably become more prevalent than they already are. It's just that then we would no more care about heroin addicts than we do about homeless wino alcoholics. That is to say, we would not care at all, just like now. Coke heads would stand on freeway feeder intersections with cardboard signs that said "DOPE FIEND--PLEASE HELP ! GOD BLESS YOU." And we'd drive by and think, "Get out of the street, you crackhead idiot," just like we already do. (And we'd pay 600 billion less in taxes.)

[Brownbread?]

Kabar i agree with what you said about the coke heads with the cardboard signs, that'd be real messed up. what i dont understand is how can you defend the legalization of hard drugs if the current legal drugs kill more people than illegal drugs. by making the illegal drugs legal and widespread as alcohol and tobacco dont you risk doubling the 20,000 or so people that die each year?

[KaBar]

Brownbread---I'm sorry to sound hard or calloused, but it is the responsibility of each individual person to keep himself or herself "drug free" or "alcohol free" or "tobacco free." If they choose to use hard drugs, most of them will live a shitty, pathetic life and die like a dog in some disgusting dope house. Do you ever think about the long, long line of rock musicians, counterculture figures, movie stars, etc. that died because of drugs and booze? And those are the people with money and celebrity. What about all the nobodies that just shot up one too many spoonfulls of dope? "Adios, unfortunate person."

I work in a place where I see a lot of young people--teenagers, kids--who use drugs. The number one worst substance of all, from my point of view, is formaldehyde. "Wet" or "fry" causes the worst brain damage of all. I've seen a straight-A's high school kid, AP classes, already had a full scholarship waiting for him at Howard University in Washington, D.C., who smoked ONE SINGLE JOINT dipped in fry, and he was irreversably brain-damaged to the point he was mentally retarded.

Whose job is it to take care of your health and safety and well-being? It is YOUR job, and nobody else's. All the laws and DEA's and ATF's in the world can't stop people from smoking cigarettes, or smoking tobacco or dope or crack or whatever. AND, the "war on drugs" is a mortal danger to the Constitution. So fuck it. Let them die of cancer, since they refuse to heed the TRUTH. "I guess they'd rather be alive than free, the poor, dumb bastards..." FMJ

[EatMorGlue]

i think a huge point that has been overlooked is that reforming drug policy doesn't have to mean full blown legalization with the texaco up the street selling coke and heroine.

 

i think just decriminalization would be a enormous step in the right direction. decriminalization removes serious penalties (mandatory minimums or time in prison otherwise), but doesn't really legalize drugs. instead of that, when offenders are caught by police they could be sent to rehabilitation facilities or education programs or some other alternative to prison that attempts to help them, rather than simply destroy much or all of their lives. these programs and facilities would be greatly improved with whatever percentage of the $40billion we spend every year fighting drugs the hard way that would have normally gone towards incarcerating these people.

 

drug reform comes in a variety of degrees from decriminaliztion to legalization, and which one would be the best policy is yet to be seen, and i doubt it ever will. the drug war stimulates our economy more than full blown legalization and massive sales tax on those drugs ever could. when the economy is good, i believe people tend to vote for the incumbent party. politicians want to keep their jobs, so they'll keep on fighting drugs even though the war on drugs is undeniably the greatest domestic policy failure since prohibition, perhaps the biggest failure in our history in terms of money spent versus positive results seen.

[Guest Ted Wakowski]

Originally posted by Smart

the only REAL deternt of crime is a fear of being caught, the death penalty is straight revenge, you're not gonna stop anyone from doing drugs, just kill the ones who do, recipe for revolution...

 

Hahah, I was just kidding about the death penalty dude.

 

no way, people can smell hyped up propaganda shit, they only leave with a larger sence of being lied to... better would be successful people, willing to admit their drug use, laying out the pro's and con's... with the music industry pushing fucked up role models down every kids throat, it's awfully hard to convince a teenager that drug use may hurt their career... what we need is thruth, and not that politically slanted anti-tobacco orinted 'truth' seeking loves so much, I mean the straight facts, honesty

 

Well yeah, but the things I was talking about are totally honest, not propaganda. Drugs can fuck you up, I think kids should be more thoroughly exposed to the physical problems that your body can go through from them -- no lying, just the harsh reality, which is in many cases some disturbing shit to see.

 

I wouldn't argue with your further ideas though.

 

The WHOLE TRUTH is what needs to be on the table, from every possible angle. People are always going to do drugs. The least that can be done from an anti-drug standpoint is total education on the subject. After that it's going to be up to the person to make whatever mistakes they end up making.

 

education is not inherently 'tough' or 'soft'

 

No, but its perception in the public eye can be described that way.

 

SEE what happened to Keith Richards? Lou Reed? Whitney Huston? Bobby Brown?... best believe they a got at least a million more dollars than you...

 

You lost me here..

[Guest Are2]

^^^^

even junkies can be rich, famous, successful, accepted, and get old