inkjunkie34 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 like i said i know its wrong...and there is no justification for it...there are pros and cons to just about everything...why not graffiti...this brings me to another point, and a question(quite funny if you ask me)i got into graffiti a few years back after being harassed by policeman, business owners, drivers, pedestrians, for skateboarding.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 You know to some extent I agree with you. In and of itself, graffiti seems to me pretty harmless. I know that I sometimes really enjoy seeing it. But I work with the city and the politicians in the city are not as enlightened as we would like. And the owners of the property that is being vandalized as well as business owners in the neighborhood are still working under the old assumptions of graffiti being "gang" related and are abnormally scared by its presense. So you have a large group of "important" people going to your governments and complaining about the graffiti. So then the city is forced to do something. Contrary to popular belief on here, the cops don't stop worrying about rapists and murderers to go after vandals instead. No the city takes money away from programs such as art and music, parks, public art, etc. to pay for the removal of graffiti. And businesses raise their prices to cover the increased overhead of having to remove graffiti from their buildings and replace "racked" merchandise. It's not the actual paint or marker on property that bothers me, it is the use of valuable resources on a problem like this that bothers me. and have you noticed that in cities where graf was getting fucking crazy all over the place they stopped WASTING the money and started legal walls and murals (see philly...full of gorgeous murals..not all graf!) ..this has happened all over cali as well.. graf forces people to look at the art..abatement is not effective.. so finally people started opening their eyes to the ideas of legal art on public walls have you ever seen europe buff their subways like the states?! they don't waste the money because they know it is something many enjoy.. maybe you should be working to change these attitudes.. not reinforcing them fucking hypocrites! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkjunkie34 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 . Contrary to popular belief on here, the cops don't stop worrying about rapists and murderers to go after vandals instead. No the city takes money away from programs such as art and music, parks, public art, etc. to pay for the removal of graffiti. It's not the actual paint or marker on property that bothers me, it is the use of valuable resources on a problem like this that bothers me. this was a point of mine...graffiti is extremely harmless, why waste money for schooling, parks, etc. When you can put it into something productive. Jesus Christ, have you been to a public school lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest THE LAW Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 writing a book! hahaha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alkaline Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by Are2 maybe you should be working to change these attitudes.. not reinforcing them Are2 is right. If you "struggle with the moral implications" of your job, then why not do something to change it instead of doing whatever they tell you to at your "safe" job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by Are2 ....well, you came back to face up to what you did i'm a bit surprised.. however, using the excuse of "this is my job" is a copout in our world, there is ample oppurtunity for most people to get many different kinds of jobs..people have a choice in the career path they follow..people have a CHOICE..they choose to bear children, they choose to get a job, and they have plenty of say in the kind of job they get an keep..are you only good at taking flicks, and being an 'expert'? ..apparantly so, because you aren't computer savvy, and a terrible observer and detective..(your response to secret is a great demonstration)..maybe if you went out and learned about something you may be better at it.. you chose to follow this career, and continue to do so your site claims that you are an expert witness, and an authority on graf..although you are not technically a cop..this is pretty goddamn close to law enforcement.. your attempts to learn about graf have been pretty pathetic..15 to 17 year olds who listen to hiphop?! hahahaaaaa awesome i don't fit anywhere in that category, and have not since i started we'll probably keep you in your lame business though, since the buff is fighting a losing battle.. the career you have is fucking pathetic..i hope you aren't kidding yourself into thinking you're doing portland some good by keeping up the buff... and poor fucking travis..you don't know shit about that guy..i hope one of your kids grows into the type of person he is.. i hope your children expose you to even more about the trials and tribulations of dealing with the justice system..i have no doubt that they will test you better than any of us can Are2 I am sorry that you feel so betrayed by me. I can also understand you feelings about my career. There are no words that I can use over the internet to make you believe that I never meant to hurt you. As far as my "detective" skills if you read what I wrote above again you will see that I was trying to prove that writers did not fit into the profile that has been pushed since graffiti abatement became a job. I am sure that my children will expose me to a lot of trials and tribulations, hopefully not with the justice system since I seek to keep an open communication with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fr8lover Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by Are2 have you ever seen europe buff their subways like the states?! they don't waste the money because they know it is something many enjoy.. you were kind of right and kind of wrong. first, many cities in europe DO or are now buffing their subway lines, look at rome as a recent example of them doing it, that place was overrun with graffiti much like the mta, and it seemed that as much as regular people *may* have enjoyed it, they became more fed up than overjoyed about the problem. second, shes not being hypocritical, it sounds more like shes taking the stance of "liking graffiti if its in the right place." you guys still havent quite grasped that this was her job, and as much as you talk at her its not her job to enjoy all graffiti. hell, im sure all of us dont like it all either. anyway you slice it, it was a pretty shitty thing of her to do. pretending to be a fan when really she was plain and simple a hater in the truest form of the word. theres been a lot of argument about which threads need to be closed and which dont, but this one seems ripe to be closed. its not going to go anywhere or accomplish anything but more bickering and breaking away from what this message board is normally supposed to be. bobobi, maybe its time you took an exit stage left and let it be, same with everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SayOne Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 I am sure that my children will expose me to a lot of trials and tribulations, hopefully not with the justice system since I seek to keep an open communication with them. what if your kids got into graff, what would you do??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by inkjunkie34 like i said i know its wrong...and there is no justification for it...there are pros and cons to just about everything...why not graffiti...this brings me to another point, and a question(quite funny if you ask me)i got into graffiti a few years back after being harassed by policeman, business owners, drivers, pedestrians, for skateboarding.. I can understand that. There are actually laws that I find stifling myself. Skateboarding is a good example. We recently changed the laws in Portland so that skateboarding is allowed in the street just like a bicycle. I have also be a proponent to new skateboard parks. I think skateboarding is a good hobby and one that my oldest son enjoys. I understand the need for regulation with boards though since I have seen several pedestrians knocked down by boarders without enough respect to look out for people in their way. This is just as bad as drivers who hit bicyclists or even boarders by not looking where they are going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mental invalid Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 bobo- i just typed too much and delted it in place of short and sweet: im sorry, but you lied to us... so i took back my valentine too.... roe disillusioned-oner:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 i don't feel betrayed i'm trying to show you that your attitude is hypocritical, you didn't accomplish anything positive by coming on here and misrepresenting yourself, and maybe to open your eyes up to the fact that you do not have to keep doing what you're doing.. and i feel bad for poor travis.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by Are2 and have you noticed that in cities where graf was getting fucking crazy all over the place they stopped WASTING the money and started legal walls and murals (see philly...full of gorgeous murals..not all graf!) ..this has happened all over cali as well.. graf forces people to look at the art..abatement is not effective.. so finally people started opening their eyes to the ideas of legal art on public walls have you ever seen europe buff their subways like the states?! they don't waste the money because they know it is something many enjoy.. maybe you should be working to change these attitudes.. not reinforcing them fucking hypocrites! That's funny. Philly has a reputation as being one of the toughest buffs around. The only way they got to the point of free walls was by breaking the graffiti community in that town. And maybe you should ask me what I have done for the good of graffiti. That I have talked till I am blue in the face about free walls, and mentorship programs instead of jail, or that I am also on the board for a mural program. You now I can understand that you are upset. I would probably be too. But you know what I was able to look past the fact that you are a vandal and see that you are also an intelligent, sensitive woman who was more than a stereotype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 What I like is how you keep trying to defend yourself and your job and that you really do like graffiti and think it's good. Funny, any observer looking at your "credentials" would assume that you think graffiti is the plague of the modern day and are on your own personal crusade to eliminate it completely. You people are worse than cops. You are small minded ignorant yokels who don't understand this culture at all. The fact that you came on here and tried to pass yourself off as a "neutral fan" of graffiti when all the while you were gaining "research" (which seems to include collecting nearly every flick posted in the bench) on how you can combat it is what has pissed most people off. Get a clue that you are just like every other close-minded fuck with a pathetic, useless past time and are no longer wanted on this board. Go away....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bumdigger we???????? Yes WE. Just because I have a job in graffiti abatement doesn't mean that I personally hate all writers. It doesn't mean that I am absolutely closed minded. I have feelings about both sides of the coin. And you know what, if I hadn't been able to come on here and talk to you guys without the "you suck because you are the buff and I will never talk to you" I would have continiued thinking that the other anti's were right and that you were just a bunch of rebellious kids. I suspended my beliefs to listen to you and realize that this issue is not black and white but many shades of gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 the philly graf community is far from broken i think you should check that before a bunch of people are all over you for a different reason philly is not bomb central like it was back when, but please..lots of people still get up, and stay up there.. and the good of graf? pardon me for not thanking you..i couldn't care less whether or not graf was legal.. you are still in the system, working FOR it and don't expect a commendation because you aren't stupid enough to believe every stereotype you hear.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Rage- Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 :beat: Have :beat: :beat: a :beat: :beat: nice :beat: :beat: day :beat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 Yes WE. Just because I have a job in graffiti abatement doesn't mean that I personally hate all writers. It doesn't mean that I am absolutely closed minded. I have feelings about both sides of the coin. And you know what, if I hadn't been able to come on here and talk to you guys without the "you suck because you are the buff and I will never talk to you" I would have continiued thinking that the other anti's were right and that you were just a bunch of rebellious kids. I suspended my beliefs to listen to you and realize that this issue is not black and white but many shades of gray. THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD IS A SHADE OF GREY you expect to gain some credit because you aren't absolutely close minded well woopdeefucking doo aren't you a good person and you suspended you're believes to listen to us? well which is it? what do you believe? i hope that is all a big question to you right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Are2 on a mutherfucking roll......:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by inkjunkie34 this was a point of mine...graffiti is extremely harmless, why waste money for schooling, parks, etc. When you can put it into something productive. Jesus Christ, have you been to a public school lately? As a matter of fact I have been. I actually volunteer a lot at my school because I feel that my kids deserve that. But I am one person, I don't control the funding. I can talk and try to make the city more understanding, but in the end if they are intent on making a war on graffiti, I would rather it be quick and economical so we can get on to better things than drawn out and money sucking. Do you realize that this country spends very conservatively $15 billion a year just to remove graffiti. Not for investigation or any other expenses just removal. And that doesn't count volunteer groups either. At least I am trying to do something for my community. You bitch that cities divert resources to removing graffiti, then why cause the problem in the first place. Why not try to find another way of getting your voice heard, one that is positive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 As a matter of fact I have been. I actually volunteer a lot at my school because I feel that my kids deserve that. But I am one person, I don't control the funding. I can talk and try to make the city more understanding, but in the end if they are intent on making a war on graffiti, I would rather it be quick and economical so we can get on to better things than drawn out and money sucking. Do you realize that this country spends very conservatively $15 billion a year just to remove graffiti. Not for investigation or any other expenses just removal. And that doesn't count volunteer groups either. At least I am trying to do something for my community. You bitch that cities divert resources to removing graffiti, then why cause the problem in the first place. Why not try to find another way of getting your voice heard, one that is positive? Do you realize that you keep contradicting yourself over and over and over???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pest control Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 no one believe a word out of this persons mouth. i am not joking. this person is 100% against what you do. do not be fooled. trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by Are2 i don't feel betrayed i'm trying to show you that your attitude is hypocritical, you didn't accomplish anything positive by coming on here and misrepresenting yourself, and maybe to open your eyes up to the fact that you do not have to keep doing what you're doing.. and i feel bad for poor travis.. I did accomplish something positive by coming here. I humanized writers so they weren't just some nameless vandal. I have done everything I can and continue to explain that jail is not the only answer or even the correct one. And it is very idealistic to say that I don't have to keep doing what I am doing. Maybe one day you will find out that life isn't always so easy. As for "poor travis" I think that anyone that had been arrested as many times as travis and continued to use the same name should have gotten out of the game a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by pest control no one believe a word out of this persons mouth. i am not joking. this person is 100% against what you do. do not be fooled. trust me. The plot thickens....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubejinxed Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 i'm not really surprised that there was a person of your nature on this board since it is public, but i am rather surprised at the lengths gone to for acceptance and inclusion. i do not hate u or what u do. i have seen cities abroad that have rampant ugly graffiti and it makes me appreciate that it is erased here. i know many of you would not like to look at some toy's first tag for the next 10 years. i know that there are some of mine that i'm glad were buffed. but i do not agree with the rather harsh persecution for such acts, since it is a victimless i do not like the misuse of trust though. there is so little of it in this world especially among this particular group and to take advantage of that is not right. people are people and trust is not a thing easily given. i just hope u see the people under the names and do not use anything you have gathered from here to anyones detriment and your own benefit. give back some of the trust you have taken. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 I think that anyone that had been arrested as many times as travis and continued to use the same name should have gotten out of the game a long time ago. Don't ever talk like you know shit about "the game"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by Dr. Dazzle What I like is how you keep trying to defend yourself and your job and that you really do like graffiti and think it's good. Funny, any observer looking at your "credentials" would assume that you think graffiti is the plague of the modern day and are on your own personal crusade to eliminate it completely. You people are worse than cops. You are small minded ignorant yokels who don't understand this culture at all. The fact that you came on here and tried to pass yourself off as a "neutral fan" of graffiti when all the while you were gaining "research" (which seems to include collecting nearly every flick posted in the bench) on how you can combat it is what has pissed most people off. Get a clue that you are just like every other close-minded fuck with a pathetic, useless past time and are no longer wanted on this board. Go away....... I am not trying to defend myself, but I am also not going to slink away like a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 You came here and got involved with us, had fun, gothered info and whatever you did. You really liked some of us and some you didnt. You realised that people are people and that you can stereotype things. Still, you're talking about 'vandalism' and try to find a reason why you do what you do. There is no such thing as free graffiti, not because we dont want it to be, just beacause graffiti as an action is the reaction to minds like yours....fucking pawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobi11 Posted March 5, 2002 Author Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by Are2 philly is not bomb central like it was back when That was the goal. Do you honestly think that the buff is stupid enough to think that graffiti will go away for ever? No, but it needs to be manageable. With every toy that picks up a pen writing on every available surface, graffiti has gotten hot. You said it yourself, Philly is not bomb central anymore. When the bombs stop, the heat from the community on the city stops and the fight is once again mellowed with each side somewhat looking the other way. And I didn't expect a commendation, I expected you to notice you had misread my comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Are2 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 I did accomplish something positive by coming here. I humanized writers so they weren't just some nameless vandal. I have done everything I can and continue to explain that jail is not the only answer or even the correct one. And it is very idealistic to say that I don't have to keep doing what I am doing. Maybe one day you will find out that life isn't always so easy. As for "poor travis" I think that anyone that had been arrested as many times as travis and continued to use the same name should have gotten out of the game a long time ago. i want to remain a nameless vandel what you did on here was not positive for any one of us i am sure you would not hesitate to testify in a trial against any one of us jail is not the answer..so yes, poor travis..2 years for graf..a lot of rapists don't do that kind of time..i know someone who was murdered and his killer did not do that time. you are a cunt for saying i don't understand how impossible life can be..you don't know a motherfucking thing about me except that i am smart, and i like to cook how the fuck would you know what situations i have been able to work out of?! maybe one day you'll realize that an excuse like "it is too hard to chenge what i do and how i behave because my life is to hectic" is an excuse, a copout, and a lame one, at that if you cannot change your life, you have no control over it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dazzle Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by bobobi11 I am not trying to defend myself, but I am also not going to slink away like a coward. So what would you call someone who comes on here and lies about who they really are? As far as gaining dignity through all this you don't have a chance in hell. Read this thread and realize that nobody here is on your side. You can defend yourself all you want, you will never be accepted on this board again. To reiterate......Go Away:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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