cmeup Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 ive killed before, and ill do it again... :D i think fighting over graff is dumb, in most circumstances... as far as going over people: if someone spends time doing a piece and you cap it with a tag or a throw even its disrespectful... period. and its just plain stupid. if you attempt to go over them with a piece and your shit isnt better, well you tried... i wouldnt be that mad, unless it was like a day or so after i did my piece, let mines run a bit...then you can go over it, however, if there is something shittier than mines up next to me, i would go over that before the better piece... i understand in places like NYC shit could get more complicated alot faster, but even then, if you go over someone, like alot of them do, i think thats dumb depending on tha spot... and there is tons of spots out there, in any city... its just those other spots take alot more balls to hit... anyways... i dont gotta worry about that much where im at... teaser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drip one Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 what you need to realize is just like any other profession, you have the nice people and the fighters. noone is in the wrong. its something you have to deal with. it will never fade. at one time graff was mostly gang related. just remember, a good amount of writers only have graff going for them. so it stays close to the heart. not everyone has a perfect life and if you want to keep yours think twice before you act. some people are waiting to get gone over to have a reason to fight. so watch yourself. lifes not a big joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by drip one some people are waiting to get gone over to have a reason to fight. Begby from Trainspotting has infiltrated graffiti in the form of ignorant jocks. Since day 1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dee Snyder Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 i think it all depends on the situation. it all comes down to whether the person was trying to disrespect you or just have a spot to paint. for example, going over someone's freight pieces is blatantly disrespectful, because unless every car in the spot has an e2e on both sides, you can find a panel to paint without going over someone. so if somebody goes over one of my freights, hell yes i'm going to beat them down. if it's a legal wall or a piecing spot, often you have to go over someone to paint so i don't see how that's a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drip one Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 find new spots instead of hearing about the popular spots and you wont have to go over people. and if you do go over someone, better burn them. people dont put up with that dead letter over a piece crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wilt Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 haha...i think it's super dumb to get mad when people go over your piece on a legal or a chill spot..because its your fault if you didn't flick it.HOWEVER,i also think its dumb to get mad if people diss the spots you get over on...because if you're hitting hard enough..a few spots doesn't matter..and fighting over it is dumber...i would love to have a friendly battle on the streets..something to remember...fighting is dumb on any level.and as far as the owner aggravation aspect...NO most of the spots you bomb are not government..its a healthy mix..but who cares..its about destruction anyways...so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinister Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 If your shit is titer then I think its alright. But if you did a piece or a nice bomb and someone tagged over you with some weak ass shit that pisses me off and I know if I caught um I would smak um. Some of these kids out there don't respect and I think a good ass kickin is what it will take to teach um a good lesson. just my opinion anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKUMBALUCKAH Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I think quite a lot of people are missing the point of the question. Read it people... Going over someone else's graf is the EXACT equivalent of that piece of property being hit in the first place, only when this happens it's the writers who are turning into the concerned citizens and getting all 'up in arms' over graf being done. Where's the logic here? You honestly sound like a cop. Or a compleate toy who has no passion about writing. The logic is that there are certain rules in this game. when another writer dogs you of course you are going to get heated. The property does not matter you moron, we are all breaking the law in the first place, but there is still a code to follow in our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by SKUMBALUCKAH The property does not matter you moron, we are all breaking the law in the first place, but there is still a code to follow in our game. You call me a moron again and I'll kick your fucking ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mud_buddha Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by Clever Name You call me a moron again and I'll kick your fucking ass. my god that's neanderthal talk... maybe even australopithecus robustus! fighting over graf is bad but fighting over a challenge to your intellectual prowess isn't? even if that's a joke, I'm still going to say it... moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKUMBALUCKAH Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by Clever Name You call me a moron again and I'll kick your fucking ass. :rolleyes: MORON!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteenvandals Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 here is my take: when bombing i risk: A) getting busted B) violence from random people in the street if someone goes over my shit then they are getting beat. i dont understand what the fuck your point is saying that people shouldn't fight over graff, but you want the priveledge of dissing withough consequences? I get what you mean, you are trying to say that vandalism to graffiti weighs equal to vandalism to property. here is why you are wrong: 1) i am sure MOST property owners would use violence to protect thier property, so in that light, violence as a protective method for property is mutual to that of proctecting graff from dissing. 2) Property is protected by the law. that is the policing method. in graffiti the only method of policing work is violence. its not like i can summons you to court cause you dissed me. some people are serious about graff and they will defend thier work. some people "mess around" and "had fun" doing graffiti (usually in shitty chill spots that get painted over and over). those types probably don't care if they get gone over. basically you shouldn't write if you think you can go over people and not get beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REGULATOR Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 in SF you never know whos hacking you because everyones a bitch and never leaves their fuckin names....you just see a buncha black lines through tags....its fuckin bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by sixteenvandals here is why you are wrong: 1) i am sure MOST property owners would use violence to protect thier property, so in that light, violence as a protective method for property is mutual to that of proctecting graff from dissing. The guy who killed Tie was only "protecting his property," do you think what he did was OK? The "kick your ass" comment was sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 7, 2002 Author Share Posted March 7, 2002 Just to set the record straight on this thread, let me sum up my views: All I wanted to do with this discussion was point out how stupid fighting over graffiti is. There's a certain level of hypocrisy associated with disrespecting something and then expecting your "disrespect" to be respected. I understand why people fight and get pissed off, but I still think it's stupid. I personally made the decision to not let my emotions turn me into a jock when it comes to graf along time ago. Jocks get pissed and beat each other up, writers beat up the system. Also, just because someone chooses to get kinda ill and fight people over some graf shit doesn't mean they can't paint or shouldn't get the respect they've earned after putting in a bunch of hardcore work (i.e. kerse from that other thread in the bench). Fighting over graf is fucking stupid but some knuckleheads are just dope regardless, I'm nobody to hold it against them. Doesn't mean I agree with the fighting shit, but the way I see it that's a seperate issue. 16vandals said I shouldn't write if I think I can go over people and not get beat. I must be making myself seem like a fucking hippy. I don't go over anyone elses stuff unless there's a legitimate reason, so that matter isn't too important to me, but if somebody did approach me on some beef shit because I dissed them or whatever, I sure as hell AM NOT gonna try and lecture them on my anal and complex views about non-violence, I'm sure they could fucking care less. The only thing I'm gonna do in that situation is defend myself from bodily harm, which probably means fighting. Whatever. I guess that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteenvandals Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by Clever Name The guy who killed Tie was only "protecting his property," do you think what he did was OK? The "kick your ass" comment was sarcastic. A) Don't talk to me that way about what happened to tie. If i knew who you were i would fight you just for that careless comment. if thats "neaderthal" of me, we'll honestly i think it's pretty fucking primative of you to compare my opinion on getting in a fight to shooting an 18 year old in the head, and making implications that i advocate what happened to tie. all i was saying is this. YOU basically said that since we vandalize property, then our pieces deserve to get dissed too. I said that vandalizing property comes with potential physical consequences, therefor the similarity between the two WOULD in fact lead to physical reprocussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteenvandals Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Originally posted by Clever Name Just to set the record straight on this thread, let me sum up my views: . 16vandals said I shouldn't write if I think I can go over people and not get beat. I must be making myself seem like a fucking hippy. I don't go over anyone elses stuff unless there's a legitimate reason, so that matter isn't too important to me, but if somebody did approach me on some beef shit because I dissed them or whatever, I sure as hell AM NOT gonna try and lecture them on my anal and complex views about non-violence, I'm sure they could fucking care less. The only thing I'm gonna do in that situation is defend myself from bodily harm, which probably means fighting. Whatever. I guess that's it. so basically your opinion on the matter is completely pointless, because you will fight over beef, and you will diss people. it should say "i would rather not fight over graff, but i will" you will find this is MOST peoples stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 8, 2002 Author Share Posted March 8, 2002 Originally posted by sixteenvandals A) Don't talk to me that way about what happened to tie. If i knew who you were i would fight you just for that careless comment. if thats "neaderthal" of me, we'll honestly i think it's pretty fucking primative of you to compare my opinion on getting in a fight to shooting an 18 year old in the head, and making implications that i advocate what happened to tie. Sorry for striking a nerve about what happened to Tie, but I could think of no better circumstance than what happened to him to hammer home my point about what you said. No offense meant by it, Tie is a legend who was pointlessly killed ... just like a lot of writers get into pointlessly violent beef that goes nowhere. all i was saying is this. YOU basically said that since we vandalize property, then our pieces deserve to get dissed too. I said that vandalizing property comes with potential physical consequences, therefor the similarity between the two WOULD in fact lead to physical reprocussion. My question to you is do you think either of these things are right? If you think the guy that shot Tie was in the right for defending his property then by the same token you're defending writers who start shit with other writers for dissing them. Both are "protecting their property," as you put it. I didn't write that anyone "deserves to be dissed," I just wrote that it's fairly hypocritical for a writer to instantly EXPECT his/her shit to be respected. Personally, when I do a spot or a piece or whatever I immediately adopt the mentality that this shit is not exclusive to me -- it's temporary and the longer it runs the better -- but it's temporary nonetheless, so as long as I get my flik it doesn't bother me when shit I do gets dissed, buffed, gone over, etc... Its just a fact of writing. "Rules of the game" may state that I should react differently but I think a lot of the rules are fucking stupid, and tradition is the enemy of progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 8, 2002 Author Share Posted March 8, 2002 Originally posted by sixteenvandals so basically your opinion on the matter is completely pointless, because you will fight over beef, and you will diss people. it should say "i would rather not fight over graff, but i will" you will find this is MOST peoples stance. Yes it is most people's stance, but this thread wasn't directed at "most people," it was directed at the few who are acting like cavemen and beating their hairy chests to the tune of graf beef. And yes I will fight over graf if I have to -- "have to" being an instance where I can either take a fucking beating or I can defend myself. "I would rather not fight over graf but I will" might actually have been a better title for this thread, but it would be leaving out the part about how I think the fighting is stupid, which is what I've been trying to convey. Let's put it this way; I think a lot of taxes I pay are stupid, but I pay them anyway because I have to. In that other post where I mentioned the fight club shit I was clowning around, of course I'd defend myself. I also said that dissing and going over each other and shit like that is a part of graf that I think makes it interesting. Fighting about it, on the other hand, is taking it a step too far, and since most overly-macho-aggressive-tough-guy writers associate dissing with physical violence, I typically make the choice not to go over people, but I will if it comes down to someone singling me or a friend of mine out for no real reason. Still doesn't mean I wanna fight, but it goes along the lines of defending myself. Hopefully you see my overly-complex point. I'm not trying to be a dick or dispute what you're saying for the sheer sake of argument, this is just how I feel about the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veeeeeeeeee! Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 sigghhh.... If you go over someone YOU BETTER BURN Whatever it is you went over whether old or new,tither and hither,to and fro,near or yonder. The basic rules of graff: pieces over throws,throws over tags. I disagree on how you generalize anyone who is willing to fight over what they live as "barbaric". To some folks mind you, graffiti is not some weekend hobby. It IS a lifestyle. There are some people who have dedicated and injected their entire being in to this sometimes unforgiving culture. Thus which leads me to believe you have gone over, thought of going over someone prominent and or are now confronted with repercussions and questions. Alas, lack of respect. With the comment "Blah,Blah,Blah I've painted in some pretty fucked up ghettos." Hints a total lack of respect to the underprivleged neighborhoods you're fucking up, Which also hint's that you reside waaay on the right hand side of the socio-economic ladder.That's fine(the socioeconomic part), but have some respect for people who can't make it in life in which neighborhoods you are writing upon. Now my thing. I'm a pretty chill cat and I respect everyone.I'm down to kick it and have an intelectual conversation like Einstien and Freud, But when you spray some shit throwup on my 35 ft burner, Noahh. The situation is no longer kibbles and bits, my friend. I'm old school and have learned from wise upbringings and PREVIOUS ENGAGEMENTS. I'm not gonna' run around crossing your shit out like a 13 year old.Noahh. I'm going to approach you like a man and listen while you try to justify and vindicate your reasons for putting a shitty throw on my 35 ft. burner and how fighting is for "dumb" people. If I smell fear on you, I shall smack you and watch you look stunned and embarassed. Now This is the funny part when the offender think's to himself why this neanderthal can't reason with logic and why he continues to strike me. This is in actuality is the first of a series of "expirements" performed by the "strikee" to expose canine levels. A few more strikes, a few more points on the canine meter. All is well one party leaves laughing the other nursing a shattered ego, blistered cheeks and "Gee, I don't think I'll be going over that fellow again." On the other hand, If you happen to "defend yourself" from punishment, prepare for a swift premeditated plethora of cheap tricks and dastardly fighting-a-gorilla-in-a-phonebooth-type-shit. to make sure your day of reckoning is unavoidable. After your sudden retirement from part-time graffing and are slowly but surely recovering from a compound-fractured jaw,black eyes and a cereberal hematoma I would love to have a intelligent chat on how we were both wrong and perhaps we could all sit down to hot cup of Ovaltine. Just respect where respect is due and you shan't be plagued with the above nonsense. Have a great Day! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 8, 2002 Author Share Posted March 8, 2002 Originally posted by Veeeeeeeeee! I disagree on how you generalize anyone who is willing to fight over what they live as "barbaric". To some folks mind you, graffiti is not some weekend hobby. It IS a lifestyle. "Anyone who is willing to fight over what they live?" I never said that. This putting words in my mouth thing is getting out of hand. I'm talking about graf and graf ONLY. If you're fighting for world peace or defending innocent people against attack or some shit like that then, by all means, fight your fucking ass off. which leads me to believe you have gone over, thought of going over someone prominent and or are now confronted with repercussions and questions. Alas, lack of respect. No. But you've built a nice little scenario in your head, you should take up playwrighting with that imagination. With the comment "Blah,Blah,Blah I've painted in some pretty fucked up ghettos." Hints a total lack of respect to the underprivleged neighborhoods you're fucking up [...] have some respect for people who can't make it in life in which neighborhoods you are writing upon. What the hell? You sound like someone who just dislikes graf. From my experience, doing a piece or catching a simple on a wall in a dirty ass, grimey ghetto only makes it look better. This is an argument for an anti-graf topic or something... when you spray some shit throwup on my 35 ft burner, Noahh. The situation is no longer kibbles and bits, my friend. Well good for you. Have a fun time beating my ass to a pulp when the kibbles and bits have settled. The only way I'm doing a throwup over a 35-foot burner is if it's a swastika. On the other hand, If you happen to "defend yourself" from punishment, prepare for a swift premeditated plethora of cheap tricks and dastardly fighting-a-gorilla-in-a-phonebooth-type-shit. to make sure your day of reckoning is unavoidable. Forget playwright, you should move to Hong Kong and make kung-fu movies. After your sudden retirement from part-time graffing and are slowly but surely recovering from a compound-fractured jaw,black eyes and a cereberal hematoma I would love to have a intelligent chat on how we were both wrong and perhaps we could all sit down to hot cup of Ovaltine. Wow, you've really impressed me with this "harsh life lesson." I hope you've gotten the most out of your self-indulgent festival of things-you-would-do-to-prove-you're-old-school-and-will-not-stand-for-any-disrespecting-know-it-alls. It's been entertaining. Have a great day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veeeeeeeeee! Posted March 8, 2002 Share Posted March 8, 2002 "The fucked up Ghetto" statement was not directed towards the graff, just the general attitude and description of the area. Tasteless choice of words and obviously the statement of an outsider is all. I have no meat to cook and no desire to dine. All in good fun. The 35ft burner swastika thing was pretty funny. As for "things-to-do-to-prove-you-are-old-school- and-will-not-stand-for-any-disrespecting" It's not really like that.... just principles,comrade. Respect where respect due and it'll be like a jewish hoiday for everybody. Peace&Comfort :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 9, 2002 Author Share Posted March 9, 2002 I guess describing a ghetto area that's been hit hard with decline as "fucked up" will aggrevate some people's sensibilities, so I apologize if I did that. What I mean by "fucked up" relates to economic opportunity, communal infrastructure, depression, etc... Yeah, bad choice of words I guess. No one ever accused me of being elegant. My point is still simply that starting fights over graff is pretty stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixteenvandals Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Originally posted by Clever Name ....I also said that dissing and going over each other and shit like that is a part of graf that I think makes it interesting. Fighting about it, on the other hand, is taking it a step too far, and since most overly-macho-aggressive-tough-guy writers associate dissing with physical violence, I typically make the choice not to go over people, but I will if it comes down to someone singling me or a friend of mine out for no real reason. Still doesn't mean I wanna fight, but it goes along the lines of defending myself. Hopefully you see my overly-complex point. hey man, you think dissing makes graff interesting? how so? i mean if there wasn't risk involved in beef then how the fuck is that interesting. i mean when i see some rugged street beef going, i think it is interesting because it is basically a script for a series of conflicts. you want the thrill of dissing, but you think people shouldn't get angry about it. please for your own sake just admit that your opinion on the matter is completely contradictory. i feel the same as you about fights. i think people who start fights are idiotic. key there is START. and dissing is STARTING a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 9, 2002 Author Share Posted March 9, 2002 16- Dissing another writer, in my kind of confusing mind, shouldn't be taken as an invitation for fighting. It's something that graf writers do to stimulate competition among each other. Like I said before, it's not something I try and get involved in, but I see it as actually being positive and progressive. It encourages writers to outdo each other, which is a good thing. I remember JA talking about the fun he had when he was battling Cope in that Cope video -- that's exactly what I'm talking about. There's really no need to take it any further than the graffiti, and the graffiti is what counts. I'm not gonna give anybody respect for beating the fuck out of someone, but if they rock a city to the fullest, kill a thousand trains with dope pieces or come out on top in a REAL battle they get massive respect. I personally think that's how it should be, even though it isn't and probably never will be. I'm glad you feel the same way as me about STARTING fights, because that's just what I've been getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRAFARONI Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 you guys are putting way to much thought into this! you are gonna get burned sometimes, it happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esai Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 Ive gotten infuriated before when I rock some shit that gets my dick hard and then a week later there's some fucken toy ass shit over it.But when I was a youngster in LA and first got into the game it seemed like going over each other was inevitable, and unless it was intentionally to disrespect, it was nothin to sweat over.Now because of the buff I think space and spots are limited so theres more territoriality,but I still think some people get too serious, probably cuz their painting is driven more by wanting fame than anything else, there are some times when someone caps me with some fourth grade shit that I want to dump on someone though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willy.wonka Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 i must say this is a very good discussion.....bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Martin Posted March 11, 2002 Share Posted March 11, 2002 Originally posted by Clever Name Dissing another writer, in my kind of confusing mind, shouldn't be taken as an invitation for fighting. It's something that graf writers do to stimulate competition among each other. your stupid. dissing people is pretty much like slapping them spare the fact your not face to face. going over someone with respect is a whole different story. you make no sense "clever name" i think your graffitically retarded and should just abstain alltogether from graffiti neandathral culture, as opposed to making it a nice safe happy ok to diss someone so you can battle culture....you took graffiti out of its context and sided with the property owners....who are you a fucking cop????? your first post on this thread makes you look STUPID! diss someone where im at and you could very well end up maced knocked out with you pants pulled down and a fat cap tag on your ass.. get the point??? dont fucking diss people asshole...if you want competition than go fucking take over a city with new spots and landmarks and get up more than your competition... get with the facts bro...writers are not nice people! in the words of ink lunatic " it takes a special kind of jerk to be a writer" so im dissing you......GO FUCK YOURSELF BITCH! now lets not fight about this...im just stimulating competition and besides were both just wasting space on a message board so what does it matter that your a WORTHLESS LITTLE DICK MOTHERFUCKING HOE BAG TRYNNA SWING OF JA'S NUTS CAUSE HE BATTLED COPE AND YOU WANT IT UP THE ASS REAL BAD AFTER YOU WENT TO THE HARDWARE STORE WITH YOUR ALLOWENCE AND BOUGHT YOUR PAINT SO YOU CAN GO DISS THE OTHER WRITER UNDER THE OVERPASS IN YOUR BULLSHIT ASS THREE COW TOWN TO STIMULATE COMPETITION. get with the facts bro. if you write be prepared to handle your shit. dont diss people and you shouldnt have any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clever Name Posted March 11, 2002 Author Share Posted March 11, 2002 Glass Etch - Hahah, you've got issues. I've never seen someone get so worked up over some message board shit. you took graffiti out of its context and sided with the property owners....who are you a fucking cop????? I'm not siding with anyone, just pointing something out that I've rarely heard anyone even talk about in all the years I've written. diss someone where im at and you could very well end up maced knocked out with you pants pulled down and a fat cap tag on your ass.. Wow, you've scared me to THE CORE and forced me to reevaluate my stance on violence ... things will never be the same in my life. This is a pivotal turning point, really. And I'll have to remind myself not to visit your hardcore neck of the woods for fear of having my "ass tagged." ....? I think you might be exactly the type of neanderthal I was talking about. at least 16vandals made sense with his argument and made me think further about it. Your rebuttal packs about as much weight as a dehydrated asian crackwhore. Hit the books harder sonny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.