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  1. okay...when i posted that comment..i wasnt trying to offend anyone or hurt anybodies feelings...i just dont understand it and i guess was hoping for a bit of insight to it all..and you kind of gave me some..i still dont really get it..and its not something id do personally or really give a shit about..but whatever...and should probably just drop it all right now to avoid some stupid net-debate....but..you had to go and get all hostile...which wasnt very nice:o ...the fact is..i do bench (on the sunny nice days that i cant afford to paint on)...i dont bench to show off to all the 12oz geeks...i bench cause i like to look at graffiti..graffiti in which i normally wouldnt be able to see [in person] unless i traveled across the continent...and i choose to share my snap shots with my friends(which im starting to think alot of you dont have) to show whats been in our area..not give a 'free show' to a legion of losers whos opinion i could care less about (which is ironic seeing how im replying to this in such great lengths)......but...as i said before..i didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings..i appreciate you posting..and enjoy seeing flicks..i just dont/didnt understand the point in getting upset about other people reposting your flicks for other people to see when thats what you initially posted them for..but..if youre benching soley to get 12oz clout and get 'dap' from kids you dont know or will never meet..or to get credit for being a SUPER COOL bencher...i ask you to not bother flicking or posting any of my trains that may ever roll your way..thanks anyways...there was a handful of decent flicks..good looking out i guess:dazed:
  2. who cares if your flicks get 'stolen'?...i really dont get that...you post them for people to see...whether its on this post or another post....whats the difference?...if you dont want people looking at them..dont post them........theyre just snap shots of graffiti on trains for people to see..i bench..and as long as i have copies of the flicks...i could care less what other people do with them...i didnt paint or build the trains..i just took pictures of them..and im not trying to make money off the flicks..its for me and other people to look at...i dont really care if i go down in graffiti history as being the COOLest bencher with the COOLest flicks that noone else has or ever will...but..whatever...as long as your name doesnt get in the way..its no big deal..i just dont get it...carry on:scramble:
  3. i know more than most about learning through mistakes/trial and error.....but..now that ive been through some shit..and grew/learned from it...i feel I should pass on what ive learned..what ive seen..what i know..what i think...and at least offer some slight knowledge to those who come up under me..and offer a bit of guidence and assistance....but some things you have to learn on your own..i know this....but...its people who are aware already and choose to ignore whats been learned from others as to what works and what doesnt..or whats respectable and whats not...thats what i have a problem with...and the fact people are willing to tolerate such disrespectful unexcusable garbage is what i have a problem with....its not necessarily the 'up and commers'..although...'GRAFFITI' IS NOT FOR EVERYONE.....but its not expected to be an expert when youre comming up...as long as you do your OWN thing..and strive to be original and produce quality well made letters..and follow the 'rules' and respect 'graffiti' for what it was..then my argument here has nothing to do with you.....but...most likely..if you think im talking about you...than i probably am:yum:
  4. im not really trying to argue your point...i see and understand what youre saying quite clearly.....i just wanted to state my point of view on the matter of 'graffiti'..it was once something i respected as a whole..but its quite clear by my endless ranting that its a love/hate relationship...i guess it may be more comforting to just turn my back on 'graffiti' all together..shut out what i hate..and focus on what i love..... just go out and paint..politic free..hassle free..stress free...and most of all SUCKER FREE its been fun:)
  5. 'graffiti' may be different for everyone...but garbage letters are garbage to everyone who has eyes in their head....I think 'looking the other way' is the problem..and is what made the bullshit get so out of control that it does seem unfixable..or not a 'reality'...but..if everyone would stop 'looking the other way' and do something about it..im sure it could be a 'reality'.....but..i guess thats whats wrong with the world..nobody cares..nobodies willing to put themselves out there to make things right.....maybe i should go turn up my favorite emo album and bang my head against a wall..maybe itll knock these CRAZY notions out of my head..and ill be able to live blindly like the rest of you:dazed:
  6. oyster..snafu...mber(twiceee)..biter..elk..giant..ohms..kaper..kwest
  7. first off...its off topic..but none the less...panic..im not sure what 'tag' youre talking about..but if i went over something of yours..it wasnt personal..and if you got me back..then thats that...whats fair is fair anyways...i agree with ERIZENO for the most part of what he said as being 'the way it is'...but does that make it tolerable? does that mean it should be incouraged instead of discouraged?...why should the standards of 'graffiti' be lowered because its in the 'mainstream'?...howd it get accepted as 'mainstream' to begin with?...why arent these people being ridiculed and discouraged for painting weak unoriginal letters?..i dont understand why its being accepted just because 'everybodies doing it'....yes we now have global influence through the internet...but theres a big difference in 'biting/unoriginality' and influence...you can look a 'piece' on a 'euro' 'clean train'..or a 'piece' from LA..or a throw from san fraaaaaansiscooo or new york and be like 'oh..hey...i could probably do that to do this:idea: '..that would be influence...but kids are stopping short and just saying 'i could do that..:) ' and blatently stealing styles..stealing flows...reproducing letters...and putting out garbage...and not even doing it properly...and its being accepted as 'the norm' or 'the way it is'...which is wrong..in MY 'opinion'...thats the way I see it....and im not trying to get praise or gain 12oz/'graffiti' acceptance by starting this thread....im simpley stating MY outlook on 'the situation'.......and panic..>I< dont agree with this: "and oh yeh, letters, style and tightness is not as important as who you are and how you represent" pertaining to 'graffiti'....'graffiti' is an annonomous 'artform'...to ME 'graffiti' is ALL about 'letters, style and tightness(by tightness ill assume you mean originality and all around 'good form' or quality or something along those lines)'...i think in order to have all this you should 'represent' properly..and respect what it is..or what its supposed to be...but 'graffiti' to ME is a craft...just like any other...if you have the ability to do it well..it doesnt matter who the fuck you are...and for the most part..people will never know who you are because of the annonimity of 'graffiti'(other than the people you paint with..and...for people to paint with you..they probably share your view on 'graffiti' and should know and like 'who you are')...if it was really about who you are..youd probably be writing the same signature you use to cash cheques with....buuuut..if you truely do have a completely original flow/style..then yes..it most likely will reflect on who you are..because youd have used the same influences and experiences that make you who you are..but wont necessarily..or it doesnt really haave to..in MY opinion...thats the way >I< see it......and as for new kids...yeah..theyre going to suck...but if you take it upon yourself to paint with them..you should guide and teach them about the ethics of 'graffiti' and whats acceptable and what isnt...and if theyre new..and really do 'love it' and are willing to 'try'..then they should listen to you for being someone of experience......>I< personally wouldnt paint with someone if i thought their letters and ethics were complete garbage..or more so if they were new and werent willing to take my advice into >consideration<.........annnnnnd as for 'sketches'..i like 'sketching'..i was into drawing before i got involved in 'graffiti'...and im not saying you have to use a 'sketch' or even 'sketch' at all if you dont like it...i was just using that as an example of putting in time to develop quality letters before you go out and 'crush freights'...for the most part i dont bring a 'sketch' when i paint...but when i want to try a new idea out or see what i can do differently to my letters...ill usually draw it out and see if it works..instead of putting out garbage that >doesnt look good< on a wall..or freight or whatever...............but thats how I work...if you can produce quality original work without 'sketching'...thats fine........but...i feel like im writting a book here...so...um...until next time:D
  8. thats not my 'argument' at all....its simpley a comparison...BUT..if you dont think 'graffiti' and RAP MUSIC came up and were based on using the same ethics and 'unwritten rules'...then you dont know either of the two..and are probably part of 'the problem' i could care less what music anyone listens to...i listen to everything from mobb deep to radiohead...my argument is..>>>STOP PAINTING SISSY LETTERS<<< :idea:
  9. one more thing....maybe its that people are looking to 'graffiti' for 'influence' for their letters..maybe thats the problem...same as RAP MUSIC..everyone is just looking at what the next guy did and 'got on' with....maybe people need to start looking outside of 'graffiti' for their influence...look at your cereal boxes..billboads...anything..nature..'urban landscapes'..anything YOU come in contact with..anything YOU see in YOUR day to day travels that will help you with letters..colour scemes..etc.....maybe then everyone will have their own unique style....maybeeee:dazed:
  10. yes..there are still 'real' writers out there...im well aware of that..and i should have pointed that out...just as there are still alot of 'real' RAP 'artists' out there...i bought the latest gangstarrrrr and blackmoon albums 'recently' and was more than pleased..and i suggest you go get those albums and relate everything said in those albums to 'graffiti'..especially blackmoon(total eclipse)........and..im also well aware that alot of kids dont listen to RAP MUSIC..and thats fine..i guess.....but..RAP MUSIC and graffiti developed together and share alot of the same characteristics and ethics..or..used to.....and maybe since RAP MUSIC went downhill...graffiti started seperating itself from it['s.ethics]..and now..the new wave of kids comming on dont see real RAP MUSIC and dont learn the ethics of hip hop..and they dont see real 'graffiti' and dont understand what it used to be.....and yes..im sure alot of my opinions are based off what ive seen and heard on the internet...especially since i didnt even have the internet up until 2 years ago..and before then still loved 'graffiti'...but...i bench..and seeing alot of the garbage rolling around im sure i would have developed these same opinions sooner or later with or without the internet....kids that self promote are still painting those trains..and people will see those trains whether they self promote or not...i could care less about 'self promoting'...but if its garbage being self promoted..its..garbage..whether they posted it themselves or not..and thats what my problem is......its like..you kids have developed a new set of ethics for graffiti since the ones generated through hip hop left...and now its the internet thats generating these ethics..'you stole my flick and posted it in another thread..you BITER!'..'youre posting your own flicks..TOY!'..'you posted in the wrong section on the forum...TOY!!TOY! TOY!!'...what about 'your letters suck ass..'TOY' 'BITER'!!'?.....and theres the kids who paint who are just 'having fun:) ' and throw up a 100 garbage trains...but these trains are going to last alot longer than your for-the-moment 'im having fun' phase..and alot of the slop just doesnt deserve to be rolling around the contenent for a long period of time..let alone at all.....if you want to 'have fun' go paint your local chill wall...yes..painting should be fun and you should enjoy it..but you should respect it..and treat it properly(especially on trains...its a joke that some of you kids call yourselves 'railfans' and tolerate some of the garbage being thrown on these trains you apparently love...taking pretty pictures of trains doesnt necessarily make you a 'railfan')...'graffiti' just isnt respectable anymore(>with a 'few' exceptions<)....people just dont care anymore...and are willing to almost 'look the other way' to all this garbage as long as theyre 'gettting up/on' and 'having fun'.........but again..my eyes are starting to hurt....so....im going to go cry and punch my pillow until i have to go to class:D
  11. i may be a nobody...and my 'opinion' may not matter to any of you...and who knows i may even get a few people who will call me a 'snitch' or a 'cop'...but...oh well....i feel like voicing my 'opinion' ill start off with a quote from all of your 12ozers best friend i fully agree with it...and honestly..anyone who doesnt...either got involved in graffiti after 2000 or is a part of the problem....it seems graffiti took the same route as RAP MUSIC..after 1999..everything went downhill..even fat joe is using that bullshit trendy 'lets get on' flow now...anyways..im not sure what started this downfall....but i hear more and more excuses and acceptance for blatent biting/'influence' and unoriginal garbage...and yes..the main source for these excuses being heard is the internet...so is that what started/caused the downfall?...i dont know....but it seems to ME that all the old ethics of graffiti which came out of the hip hop/'urban' 'scene' which also used to be heavily used by RAP MUSIC aswell have been replaced with this for-the-moment 'im just having fun' mentality...noone seems to put any thought into their letters anymore..its almost unheard of to bring a sketch to a wall..nobody puts in the time they used to to make original creative well made letters..nobody cares about the letters...which..is what graffiti is..or at least thats what i thought it was when i got involved in it.....like the lyrics of RAP MUSIC..nobody cares anymore..its all about 'getting on'....same as graffiti..its become tolerable for people to 'get up' with sissy soft ass letters..just as long as theyre 'getting up'...theres just way too much tolerance for complete garbage...people switching up styles to follow trends...people comming out of nowhere and hitting 200000 trains with pansy sloppy letters...blatent biting..or i should say heavy 'influence'...its all garbage.....im not an 'up' writer by any means..and i dont even have the best painting skills...but my letters will stomp the shit out of most of the garbage rolling around right now...and..when im happy with my skill at painting ...i may just do that.........i dont know...i probably didnt get my point across..i could type for days about this..but it hurts my eyes and head...so ill leave you with a quote from a recently caught hope4 train HELLxO http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00419759f00000001.jpg just incase fotango sucks "every piece should be like a well written song" -hope4(or..whoever he quoted that from)
  12. navy8's flowers...chsme(caught that a whiiiiiiiiiiiiile ago)....jurne...bles.....snafu
  13. yeah man..i was supposed to do a trade with relek a while ago..hes from your area,eh?..i had the shit done up and everything...ive just slacked sooo hard on getting it to him...i think its been almost a year now...maybe if i get around to sending his shit..you can send me something back with him for me to doodle in..or some stickers or whatever.....add me to AIM if you gottt it: degeneratescummm thats not an open invite to the rest of you.....although your commenets are appreciated..thanks
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