When will we know who our new president is?

Pre-election litigation war flares up

2 suits filed in Ohio over voter challenges

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...1010416/-1/NEWS

ACLJ Forms Election Law Compliance Team to Ensure Presidential Election Complies With U.S. Constitution

WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 1, 2004--The American Center for Law and Justice, specializing in constitutional law, announced today it has formed an Election Law Compliance Team to ensure that the presidential election complies with the U.S. Constitution.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/g...677&newsLang=en

Fattah, Attorneys: Aggressive Poll Challengers in Minority Precincts Will be Individually Sued

PHILADELPHIA, Oct. 31 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Congressman Chaka Fattah (D-PA) unveiled a plan today in response to anticipated efforts by GOP poll challengers (or watchers, as they are called in some states) to lodge systematic challenges against large numbers of African-American and Latino voters on Election Day.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=39231

A majority of voters — and an overwhelming number of African-Americans — said they were concerned their own votes would not be counted properly, and one-third said they expected to encounter problems when they go to vote, the poll found. Nearly 80 percent of black respondents said they expected that some states would make a deliberate effort to prevent them from voting Tuesday.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595102224,00.html

Call me optimistic (and I am), but I expect Kerry to win decisively - enough to put the election out of reach of the majority of litigation. (I.e., even if the Bushies were to succeed at their litigation, Kerry would still win that state/the election). But that won't stop an onslaught of litigation from first occurring.

But who knows.

I'm so fucking nervous. I've had a knot in my stomach ever since I woke up. I don't even know why I'm here at school. I can't concentrate for shit.

i agree.

i was wondering just now why i was in such a shitty, distracted mood.

it's the fucking election.

i have a bad feeling dubya's gonna win.

for a long time i was with my dad:

the polls are wrong, they aren't accounting for all the people who are going to vote that didn't vote last time.

but now i'm worried.

Originally posted by symbols@Nov 1 2004, 11:46 AM

to lodge systematic challenges against large numbers of African-American and Latino voters on Election Day.

yeah synbols, i've seen some of this, I can't beleive the republicans would try to stop Latinos from voting, i'm pretty sure they practically favor bush right now. i'm really worked up over this too, there is too much shady shit going on out there.

i'm also worried about most of the polling i've seen. i hope that seekings prediction about all the kids out there voting for kerry comes true, but i think he puts too much stock into it. there are too many brainwashers out there, and that segment of the populace is extremely succeptible.

prepare for a week of extreme anxiety. i think i'm going to go buy a roll of quilted northern, and a couple of thirty packs. fortunately we have a heavy hitting trial lawyer on our side this time around.

here's something a bit twisted.....

With the current rate of incarceration amongst the male african-american community,

and how certainly laws are balanced against them*, one day I see that the number of black men

who can vote will be so low that their demographic is discounted all together.

*I read that 90% of the people caught with powder cocaine are white

and 90% of the people caught with rock cocain (crack) are black.

The amount of crack needed to get a trafficing charge is something

like 1 tenth of the amount of powder cocaine. Simply... some drug laws

are swayed to be more harsh on certain members of society.

(read as: the system will fuck the black man and forgive the white man)

sorry about the drug talk but I'm using it as a strictly legal example.

I'm gonna take the optimistic approach. I really think there is going to be a huge surge of first time voters. The republicans are way too overconfident on counting out the slacker uprising.

<-------------------Mad Stressed.

Check out dailykos and you can read up on the amazingly large amount of voter supression the GOP is attempting and in some cases succeeding in doing. This makes me ripshit angry and I feel like chucking my monitor through the window every time I read about. If Bush wins this will probably be the reason why, and I hope that this country has the balls to drag him out of the White House and lynch him in the streets along with all his puppetmasters.

I'm fucking nervous as hell.

Over here we're close to re-electing one of the most corrupt governors the island has ever seen, and I honestly don't really care about it as much as I care about the US election. Whoever we elect, it'll be more of the same... I don't feel the same thing is going to happen in the US.

Originally posted by symbols@Nov 1 2004, 08:46 AM

 

 

 

Fattah, Attorneys: Aggressive Poll Challengers in Minority Precincts Will be Individually Sued

PHILADELPHIA, Oct. 31 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Congressman Chaka Fattah (D-PA) unveiled a plan today in response to anticipated efforts by GOP poll challengers (or watchers, as they are called in some states) to lodge systematic challenges against large numbers of African-American and Latino voters on Election Day.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=39231

 

 

Quoted post

VIn Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio, the voter lawsuits will be filed in federal court, seeking damages for civil rights violations against aggressive poll challengers who interfere with voters on Election Day. Defendants will be held individually liable...VPN also plans to review recent voter intimidation activities, such as large-scale registration challenges in Ohio, for litigation possibilities. "Unprecedented political aggression requires unprecedented measures to vindicate Americans' rights to vote. When we have Americans of every background fighting to spread freedom around the world, it is un-American to harass or intimidate people who are exercising those freedoms here at home. If we need personal legal liability to drive that point home, we will have it," said Fattah.

This made me feel good...

this is a rare instance that i'd be glad that two lawyers are running ofr office.

i can only hope that this time, the democrats won't roll over and get asstorn by an "appointed president"

has anyone voted early? I'm gettin up early to do it before class..

...i doubt we'll have an answer by tommorow night...it will probably take days...i have this feeling that i'm going to be waiting at the polls for hours tommorow...so many people are going to turn out to vote...

PEEP THIS...LETTER FROM MICHAEL MOORE:

IF YOU HAVE TIME TO READ THIS LONG ASS BOOK

To Decent Conservatives and Recovering Republicans:

In your heart of hearts you know Bush is a miserable failure. From having no plan on what to do in Iraq once he conquered Baghdad to the 380 missing tons of explosives that could be used to kill our brave young men and women, this guy doesn’t have a clue how to fight and win a war. You should see the mail I’ve been getting lately from our troops over there. They know how much the Iraqi people hate them. They are sitting ducks anytime they go out on the road. Many believe we are not that far away from a Tet-style offensive inside the Green Zone with hundreds of Americans and Brits killed.

Bush refused to go after and capture Osama bin Laden. He fought, every step of the way, the investigation into the 9/11 attacks. Who on earth would oppose such a thing? If 3,000 people died at your place of work and your boss said we don’t need to find out why or how it happened, he’d be thrown out on his ear. Bush’s behavior after this great tragedy alone is reason enough for his removal.

You already know that George W. Bush is the farthest thing from a conservative. He’s a reckless spender who has run up record-breaking deficits and the biggest debt in our history. He believes in having the government pry into everything from your library records to your bedroom. He has hit you with hidden taxes with his tax cuts for the rich.

I know many of you don’t like Bush, but are unsure of Kerry. Give the new guy a chance. He won’t raise your taxes (unless you are super-rich), he won’t take your hunting gun away, and he won’t make you visit France. He risked his life for you many years ago. He’s asking for the chance to do it again. Scott McConnell at The American Conservative magazine has endorsed him. What more do you need?

To My Friends on the Left:

Okay, Kerry isn’t everything you wished he would be. You’re right. He’s not you! Or me. But we’re not on the ballot – Kerry is. Yes, Kerry was wrong to vote for authorization for war in Iraq but he was in step with 70% of the American public who was being lied to by Bush & Co. And once everyone learned the truth, the majority turned against the war. Kerry has had only one position on the war – he believed his president.

President Kerry had better bring the troops home right away. My prediction: Kerry’s roots are anti-war. He has seen the horrors of war and because of that he will avoid war unless it is absolutely necessary. Ask most vets. But don’t ask someone whose only horror was when he arrived too late for a kegger in Alabama.

There’s a reason Bush calls Kerry the Number One Liberal in the Senate – THAT’S BECAUSE HE IS THE NUMBER ONE LIBERAL IN THE SENATE! What more do you want? My friends, this is about as good as it gets when voting for the Democrat. We don’t have the #29 Liberal running or the #14 Liberal or even the #2 Liberal – we got #1! When has that ever happened?

Those of us who may be to the left of the #1 liberal Democrat should remember that this year conservative Democrats have had to make a far greater shift in their position to back Kerry than we have. We’re the ones always being asked to make the huge compromises and to always vote holding our noses. No nose holding this time. This #1 liberal is not the tweedledee to Bush’s tweedledum.

To Nader Voters:

See the above note.

Ralph’s own party, the Green Party, would not endorse his run this year. That’s because those of us who want to build a third party in this country know that the only way to do this is to build bridges with those who believe in the issues Nader believes in. But not one of those people will sacrifice the chance to remove George W. Bush from the White House on Tuesday. The choice here is clear: do we join with our friends, or do we piss on them?

After the debacle of 2000, the Democrats got smart and abandoned the conservative wing of their party. That’s why 8 of the 9 Democrats in the primaries this year were from the liberal wing. Ralph should take credit for that and declare victory. It’s so sad that he doesn’t realize the good he’s accomplished. But for reasons only known to him, he’s more angry at the Democrats than he is at Bush. He has lost his compass. I worry he has lost his mind. But he still gives a great speech!

And Lila Lipscomb, the mother from Flint who lost her son in Iraq, she still grieves -- as do the mothers of 1,120 others (not to mention the mothers of the 100,000 Iraqis who have died because of Bush’s war). That’s what this election is about. Not Ralph proving some point. Almost none of us on his 2000 advisory group are supporting him this year. His total lack of respect for his best friends should tell all of you something about what he really thinks of you, too.

To the Non-Swing States:

Stop listening to how your vote doesn’t count in this election and that your state is already decided for Kerry or Bush. It is critical that you vote because we not only need to give Kerry the electoral win, but he needs to have a HUGE mandate with an ENORMOUS popular vote victory as well. It will be impossible for him to get anything done for four years if there is no clear mandate. We must not only defeat Bush, we must put a stake in the heart of the right-wing, neo-con movement. If you live in New York, California, Illinois, Texas, the Northeast or the Deep South, you need to vote and you need to bring ten people with you to the polls. If you live in a state where we have the chance to elect the Democrat to the Senate or the House, you need to vote. Turn off the TV. Quit listening to news media that has a vested interest in repeating to you over and over that your vote does not count. It does.

If you have friends or relatives who live in the 30-plus non-swing states, call them and remind them how important it is that Kerry gets a massive popular vote victory.

To Non-Voters:

I understand why you stopped voting. Politicians suck. Nothing ever seems to change. You’re only one vote.

Yes, politicians suck. But so do car salesmen – and that hasn’t stopped you from buying a car. Politicians only respond to the threat of the angry mob also known as the voting public. If most people don’t vote, that’s good news for them ‘cause then they don’t have to answer to the majority.

Almost fifty percent of Americans don’t vote. That means you belong to the largest political party in America – the Non-Voting Party. That means you hold all the power to toss George W. Bush out of the Oval Office. How cool is that?

I believe that we are going to have the largest election turnout in our lifetime tomorrow. You don’t want to miss out on that. The lines at the polls are going to be long and raucous and fun. It is an historic election. You won’t want to say that you were the only one who wasn’t there. Promise me you’ll vote, just this one time.

To All First-Time Voters:

Welcome to the longest running, uninterrupted democracy on earth! You own it. It’s yours.

A few words about how messy it’s going to be tomorrow. The lines are going to be long. Bring your iPods. Better yet, bring a friend or two. The election officials have no clue just how many millions are going to show up at the polls. This will be the largest turnout in our lifetime. They don’t have enough machines. They are going to have to send for more ballots.

And they are going to make it difficult for you to vote. The new law says if this is your first time voting you must bring ID with you that matches the address you are registered at.

If for some reason they can’t find your name on the voting rolls, you have the right to ask for a provisional ballot, which you can fill out and then sort things out later.

If you have any problems at the polling place, please call 1-866-OUR-VOTE. The people there can tell you how to find the precinct where you should be voting, get you legal help if you are denied the right to vote, or answer any other questions you may have.

If you need any help figuring out the ballot, don’t be afraid to ask. If you screw up your ballot, you can ask for another one. In fact, the law allows you to screw up your ballot two times before you finally have to submit your final ballot! Be careful to vote on the line that says John F. Kerry/John Edwards. Don’t vote for more than one Presidential, Senate or House candidate or you ballot won’t be counted. If your polling place has a stub or a receipt from your ballot, make sure they give you one.

Thanks for joining us. Democracy is not a spectator sport. It only works when we all come off the bench and participate.

To African Americans:

First of all, let’s just acknowledge what you already know: America is a country which still has a race problem, to put it nicely. Al Gore would be president today had thousands of African Americans not had their right to vote stolen from them in Florida in 2000.

Here is my commitment: I will do everything I can to make sure that this will not happen again. And I’m not the only one making this pledge. Thousands of volunteer lawyers are flying to Florida to act as poll watchers and intervene should there be any attempts to deny anyone their right to vote. They will NOT be messing around.

For my part, I have organized an army of 1,200 professional and amateur filmmakers who will be armed with video cameras throughout the states of Florida and Ohio. At the first sign of criminality, we will dispatch a camera crew to where the vote fraud is taking place and record what is going on. We will put a big public spotlight on any wrongdoing by Republican officials in those two states. They will not get away with this as they did in 2000.

In Ohio, the Republicans are sending almost 2,000 paid “poll challengers” into the black precincts of Cleveland in an attempt to stop African Americans from voting. This action is beyond despicable. Do not let this stop you from voting. I, and thousand of others, will be there to fight for you and protect you.

To George W.:

I know it’s gotta be rough for you right now. Hey, we’ve all been there. “You’re fired” are two horrible words when put together in that order. Bin Laden surfacing this weekend to remind the American people of your total and complete failure to capture him was a cruel trick or treat. But there he was. 3,000 people were killed and he’s laughing in your face. Why did you stop our Special Forces from going after him? Why did you forget about bin Laden on the DAY AFTER 9/11 and tell your terrorism czar to concentrate on Iraq instead?

There he was, OBL, all tan and rested and on videotape (hey, did you get the feeling that he had a bootleg of my movie? Are there DVD players in those caves in Afghanistan?)

Speaking of my movie – can I ask you a personal question before we part ways for good on Tuesday? Why did you and your friends fund SIX “documentaries” trashing me -- but only ONE film against Kerry? C’mon, he was the candidate, not me. What a waste of your time and resources! Sure, I know what your pollsters told you, that the film had convinced some people to vote you out. I just want you to know that that was not my original intent. Funny things happen at the movies. Hope you get to see a few at the multiplex in Waco. It’s a great way to relax.

To John Kerry:

Thank you.

And don’t worry – none of us are going away after you are inaugurated. We’ll be there to hold your hand and keep you honest. Don’t let us down. We’re betting you won’t. So is the rest of the world.

That’s it. See you at the polls – and at the victory party tomorrow night.

Yours,

Michael Moore

http://www.michaelmoore.com

MMFlint@aol.com

Good luck people....

first of all, i wish that people at my office would not talk about politics unless they agree with me.

secondly, from what i've heard so far, people are hitting the booths in completely obscene numbers. the couple folks who tried to vote before work (7am-ish) found there to be hundreds of people already in line.

IMO, this is a good thing. people who consider themselves republicans pretty much always vote, which means there (hopefully) arent going to be a whole lot of 'first time' republican voters. which means all the people who are clogging the polls are much more likely to be democrats...or so i'm praying.

the way i see it, republicans have less to lose with kerry than democrats have to lose with bush. i dont see too many people that have never voted before standing up and saying 'god damn, we gotta keep this fuck kerry out of office, he's going to destroy the country'. he's just not that offending (unless your a blind, fanatical gun nutt of course).

whatever, i cant think. i'm trying to just not think about things, but i really do think kerry is going to take it. i think there has been such a push this year to get people to vote, that by virtue of sheer volume, it's sunken in with a lot of people. i'd be surprised if we had much less than a 75% turnout.

i need to eat breakfast now.

seeks/fuck anyone who thinks bush is not death incarnate.

poll already had a big line by 7am where i went...got my vote off so at the least, i can say, "don't blame me..."

Originally posted by seeking@Nov 2 2004, 09:35 AM

i think there has been such a push this year to get people to vote, that by virtue of sheer volume, it's sunken in with a lot of people. i'd be surprised if we had much less than a 75% turnout.

Quoted post

This is the exact reason why I think Kerry is going to take it as well. I know so many people that never took an interest in the political process, but are now fully engulfed in it. And yes, I think its safe to say that the majority of traditional non voters lean more towards the democratic side. In addition, how many republicans have you heard rallying the troops and letting their people know how important it is for them to get out and vote?

Originally posted by InfiniteWisdomOfThePezDispenser@Nov 2 2004, 10:49 AM

how many republicans have you heard rallying the troops and letting their people know how important it is for them to get out and vote?

Quoted post

zero. once i find out someone is republican, i no longer listen to anything they have to say.

^ hahaha, that and people who say anything remotely

supportive of bush. to me it's a big flag that says "i am

a tard".

This country is ruled by right wing judges...

cnn.com

High court clears way for Ohio poll challengers

Tuesday, November 2, 2004 Posted: 12:38 PM EST (1738 GMT)

CINCINNATI, Ohio (AP) -- Giving a pre-dawn Election Day boost to the GOP, the U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday declined to stay an appeals court ruling allowing political parties to send people to polls in Ohio to challenge voters' eligibility.

Overturning the orders of two federal judges, a three-judge panel of the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 2-1 early Tuesday that the presence of Election Day challengers was allowed under state law. It granted emergency stays that will allow Republicans and Democrats one challenger per precinct each.

Plaintiffs' appeals to the U.S. Supreme Court were unsuccessful. Early Tuesday, Justice John Paul Stevens, who handles appeals from Ohio, refused a request to stay the 6th Circuit decision.

Republicans say they wanted challengers in many polling places because of concerns about fraud. Democrats have accused the GOP of trying to suppress Democratic turnout. Hundreds of thousands of voters have been newly registered in a state President Bush and Sen. John Kerry both say they may need to win. (Showdown state Ohio) (Special Report: America Votes 2004, Electoral College)

The 6th Circuit judges said that while it's in the public interest that registered voters cast ballots freely, there is also "strong public interest in permitting legitimate statutory processes to operate to preclude voting by those who are not entitled to vote." Smooth and effective administration of the voting laws means that the rules can't be changed hours before the election, they said.

The dissent by Judge R. Guy Cole said the Ohioans have the right to vote without the "threat of suppression, intimidation or chaos sown by partisan political operatives," and if voting rights are pitted against the possibility of fraud, the court must err on the side of voters.

As voting got under way after 6:30 a.m., Democratic challenger Vicki Lynn Ward sat at the Addison Branch Library in Cleveland while early-arriving voters punched their ballots. She said she was mainly waiting for a Republican challenger to arrive.

"I'm just here to ensure that everyone's right to vote is protected -- from unnecessary challenges," said Ward. She got the call at 2 a.m. that she would be allowed in the polling place.

Mark Weaver, legal counsel for the Ohio Republican Party, said Republican challengers had been told Monday to show up outside the polls pending the appeals court ruling. "We think the 6th Circuit made the right decision," he said.

David Sullivan, a spokesman for the Ohio Democratic Party, said Democratic challengers would be at the polls to protect voters' rights. He called the ruling "unfortunate" but added, "we were prepared for this outcome."

Stevens acted on his own in what is known as a chambers opinion that did not involve the other Supreme Court justices. Technically, the plaintiffs could ask that all justices be consulted, but -- given the time constraints -- the full court rarely disagrees with one of its individual justices in such matters.

"The allegations of abuse made by the plaintiffs are undeniably serious -- the threat of voter intimidation is not new to our electoral system," Stevens wrote. But he said the information presented him made it impossible to determine the validity of the claims.

Two federal judges ruling on separate cases Monday had barred political party representatives from challenging voters at polling places throughout Ohio, saying poll officials should handle disputes over voter eligibility.

Under state law, voters may be challenged on their citizenship, age or residency. Poll workers generally would challenge someone if his or her signature didn't match the one in the poll book, or if the poll worker recognized the individual as someone who didn't belong in that precinct.

Republicans have said they plan to check names of voters against lists of absentee ballots and of people who have died recently.

In her ruling Monday, U.S. District Judge Susan Dlott in Cincinnati said plaintiffs in a lawsuit likely would be able to prove that Ohio's law allowing polling place challengers was unconstitutional.

Dlott said the presence of challengers inexperienced in the electoral process questioning voters about their eligibility would impede voting. She ruled in a lawsuit by a black couple who said GOP plans to deploy challengers to largely black precincts was meant to intimidate and block black voters.

In the second case, U.S. District Judge John Adams of Akron said poll workers, not outside challengers, are the ones to determine if voters are eligible. Adams ruled in a suit by the Summit County Democratic Party, which claimed the registration challenges do not give a disqualified voter a chance to appeal in time to cast a ballot.

In ruling on both cases, the appeals court said the Ohio law authorizing the presence of challengers at the polling places is presumed to be constitutional and "has been on the books for a decade."

Based on the lower court rulings, Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell's office had told county elections boards to bar all challengers from polling places. After the appeals court overturned them, office spokesman Carlo LoParo said officials were "trying to figure out a way to get that information to Ohio's poll workers."

The GOP registered about 3,500 challengers, and Democrats say they've registered thousands but won't give a specific number.

I think it will be the same damn thing that happened in 2000 except in a different state and people will no that Bush is trying to take the election again.

MSNBC is reporting that only SEVENTEEN PERCENT of the young voters from 18 to 21 voted! WHAT THE FUCK? What happened to the other eighty-three percent? That's potentially millions of votes.

^ yeah, it actually went down since last time. How pathetic. It's the education system or some shit. I live in Canada, and I see how kids just aren't patriotic anymore. Kids litter, don't vote, and talk about how they just don't give a fuck. It's bullshit, man.

i just want kerry to win

put me down @2g for kerry..2 on the spread

Originally posted by symbols@Nov 1 2004, 02:12 PM

i have a bad feeling dubya's gonna win.

 

 

Quoted post

:(

Originally posted by Poop Man Bob@Nov 1 2004, 11:46 AM

Call me optimistic (and I am), but I expect Kerry to win decisively - enough to put the election out of reach of the majority of litigation. (I.e., even if the Bushies were to succeed at their litigation, Kerry would still win that state/the election). But that won't stop an onslaught of litigation from first occurring.

Aren't I cute?

indeed.

yo symbols...gimme a ring.

i can't.

the german's on the phone talking about how shitty america is.