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War from an Iraqi's perspective

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Dr. Drew, Apr 4, 2003.

  1. Dr. Drew

    Dr. Drew Guest


    What the US is responsible for.
    Why doesn't american media show us these images?
  2. oldenglish

    oldenglish Banned

    Joined: Apr 3, 2003 Messages: 1,308 Likes Received: 0
    damn your so funny tease. ha ha ha ha. yeah, innocents killed in the name of protecting our selfes is so funny. its a joke right? and all the kids dying of disentary (you might have to look this one up i know you have trouble with big words) and cancer is one big sitcom.
    tune in to cnn for the next hillarious episode of The Iraq War.
  3. ¹º¹º¹¹º¹¹¹º¹

    ¹º¹º¹¹º¹¹¹º¹ New Jack

    Joined: Dec 19, 2002 Messages: 0 Likes Received: 0
  4. podrido

    podrido Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 14, 2001 Messages: 9,182 Likes Received: 28
  5. ¹º¹º¹¹º¹¹¹º¹

    ¹º¹º¹¹º¹¹¹º¹ New Jack

    Joined: Dec 19, 2002 Messages: 0 Likes Received: 0
    whoa.. even DJ's boyfriend made it in that shoot.

    way to go steve
  6. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001 Messages: 19,363 Likes Received: 299
    Why doesen't whatreallyhappened.com post this article.

    I was a naive fool to be a human shield for Saddam
    By Daniel Pepper
    (Filed: 23/03/2003)

    I wanted to join the human shields in Baghdad because it was direct action which had a chance of bringing the anti-war movement to the forefront of world attention. It was inspiring: the human shield volunteers were making a sacrifice for their political views - much more of a personal investment than going to a demonstration in Washington or London. It was simple - you get on the bus and you represent yourself.

    So that is exactly what I did on the morning of Saturday, January 25. I am a 23-year-old Jewish-American photographer living in Islington, north London. I had travelled in the Middle East before: as a student, I went to the Palestinian West Bank during the intifada. I also went to Afghanistan as a photographer for Newsweek.

    The human shields appealed to my anti-war stance, but by the time I had left Baghdad five weeks later my views had changed drastically. I wouldn't say that I was exactly pro-war - no, I am ambivalent - but I have a strong desire to see Saddam removed.

    We on the bus felt that we were sympathetic to the views of the Iraqi civilians, even though we didn't actually know any. The group was less interested in standing up for their rights than protesting against the US and UK governments.

    I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in Baghdad - a taxi driver taking me back to my hotel late at night. I explained that I was American and said, as we shields always did, "Bush bad, war bad, Iraq good". He looked at me with an expression of incredulity.

    As he realised I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak in broken English about the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I had only heard the President spoken of with respect, but now this guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil money went into Saddam's pocket and that if you opposed him politically he would kill your whole family.

    It scared the hell out of me. First I was thinking that maybe it was the secret police trying to trick me but later I got the impression that he wanted me to help him escape. I felt so bad. I told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am not with the UN, I'm not with the CIA - I just can't help you."

    Of course I had read reports that Iraqis hated Saddam Hussein, but this was the real thing. Someone had explained it to me face to face. I told a few journalists who I knew. They said that this sort of thing often happened - spontaneous, emotional, and secretive outbursts imploring visitors to free them from Saddam's tyrannical Iraq.

    I became increasingly concerned about the way the Iraqi regime was restricting the movement of the shields, so a few days later I left Baghdad for Jordan by taxi with five others. Once over the border we felt comfortable enough to ask our driver what he felt about the regime and the threat of an aerial bombardment.

    "Don't you listen to Powell on Voice of America radio?" he said. "Of course the Americans don't want to bomb civilians. They want to bomb government and Saddam's palaces. We want America to bomb Saddam."

    We just sat, listening, our mouths open wide. Jake, one of the others, just kept saying, "Oh my God" as the driver described the horrors of the regime. Jake was so shocked at how naive he had been. We all were. It hadn't occurred to anyone that the Iraqis might actually be pro-war.

    The driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want this war." He seemed convinced that civilian casualties would be small; he had such enormous faith in the American war machine to follow through on its promises. Certainly more faith than any of us had.

    Perhaps the most crushing thing we learned was that most ordinary Iraqis thought Saddam Hussein had paid us to come to protest in Iraq. Although we explained that this was categorically not the case, I don't think he believed us. Later he asked me: "Really, how much did Saddam pay you to come?"

    It hit me on visceral and emotional levels: this was a real portrayal of Iraq life. After the first conversation, I completely rethought my view of the Iraqi situation. My understanding changed on intellectual, emotional, psychological levels. I remembered the experience of seeing Saddam's egomaniacal portraits everywhere for the past two weeks and tried to place myself in the shoes of someone who had been subjected to seeing them every day for the last 20 or so years.

    Last Thursday night I went to photograph the anti-war rally in Parliament Square. Thousands of people were shouting "No war" but without thinking about the implications for Iraqis. Some of them were drinking, dancing to Samba music and sparring with the police. It was as if the protesters were talking about a different country where the ruling government is perfectly acceptable. It really upset me.

    Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising that freedom.
  7. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    oh, well if one cab driver says that every iraqi person wants war, i'll go ahead and ignore the fact that 3/4th's of the worlds news agencies are reporting otherwise. that hundreds of iraqi people either still living in iraq, or living outside of it but maintaing ties, claim otherwise. i mean, muhammed the 'gabby iraqi cabby' said it, john the student heard it, it must be true.

    lastly, whatreallyhappend doesnt post it because it posts news, taken from news agencies, not emails sent by 23 year old students who while there is a war going on, still managed to somehow leave the country at will.

    er, i mean, 'whatever'... im sure the 754 civillians confirmed dead, and the thousands and thousands wounded are pretty stoked to have us.


    Joined: Apr 30, 2002 Messages: 711 Likes Received: 0
    "war happens"..i fucking hate that argument. it's like saying "oh yeah my mother just got brutally murdered, but hey you know, that kind of thing happens so i'll just let it slide". how would you feel if another country came along and forced you to live a certain way, and decided what your fate would be? i don't even know why i write this, might as well talk to a brick wall.
  9. Pistol

    Pistol Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 12, 2001 Messages: 19,363 Likes Received: 299


    Joined: Apr 30, 2002 Messages: 711 Likes Received: 0
    okay, so i just like to envision a world without as much violence and killing as you seem to think is the norm, that's all. i'm just not into genocide that much. can we still be friends?
  11. Smart

    Smart Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 14, 2000 Messages: 17,017 Likes Received: 177
    well, 750 people hardly makes a 'genocide'... more Kurds died in the gas attacks and that was a deliberate attempt to exterminate them... but...

    basically, do any of you believe that the average person in Iraq has a real voice? That they are free to voice a dissenting opinion? How can any of you know so much about the realities of life in that country?

    Just because 3/4's of the world press say's it's true doesn't make it so... doesn't make it wrong either but...

    The war is NOT going to stop, I don't even why you guys are arguing aout that anymore, now is the time to argue about what the post-war Iraq will be like because one thing is certain...
  12. ¹º¹º¹¹º¹¹¹º¹

    ¹º¹º¹¹º¹¹¹º¹ New Jack

    Joined: Dec 19, 2002 Messages: 0 Likes Received: 0
    weapons of mass destruction discovered = 0


    "Extending the war into Iraq would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Exceeding the U.N.'s mandate would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

    From "Why We Didn't Remove Saddam" by George Bush [Sr.] and Brent Scowcroft, Time Magazine, 1998
  13. oldenglish

    oldenglish Banned

    Joined: Apr 3, 2003 Messages: 1,308 Likes Received: 0
    ey Pistol.
    The view point from that article is weak. We made Saddam what he is. The father of the president and the people in power right now did that.
    He makes the middle east sound like a field trip.
    While Saddam is no doubt a coldhearted sociopath in charge of a brutal regime we have financially supported him regardless of sanctions while the Iraqis suffer. We let thousands of Iraqi Shites die and did not take this regime over 10 years ago.
    Now while the world goes to shit were fucking over people who have been steady fucked over for the last 23 years.
    Right. And cause some journalist heard a bit of truth and got pussy on being a human shield and wrote about it that makes invasion at the expense of the population of Iraq justifiable?
    And besidse that, what the fuck was he doing being a shield for Saddam? Shouldnt he have been shielding civilian interests?


    Joined: Apr 30, 2002 Messages: 711 Likes Received: 0
    You're right, genocide is definitely a bit strong a word to use for that. I take that back, honestly. But it's like, how do we know it's not going in that direction?
  15. Smart

    Smart Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 14, 2000 Messages: 17,017 Likes Received: 177
    we don't... that's life... you don't know if you're gonna get hit by a car or win the lottery or whatever... hope, I guess... perhaps a little faith in the fact that while we've sent a whole bunch of people over there armed to the teeth with orders to kill, they're still basically american kids, why are you so willing to accept that these generally normal people (a lot of them reservists) are eager to commit war crimes or oppress a nation?