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Nervous

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Don't you seem to notice after being in this game for long time graff all looks very similar! I mean, after 13 years of painting I am bored of what I see!

Don't get me wrong, but there are very few who are different and if you take just a few writers from ArtCrimes for example, on the Home Page, and click on the updates, who out of those three writers, who has something that the others in the graffiti community don't have.

I guess I am just unimpressed with graff these days. That includes myself for that matter. Where will this sub-culture turn to once the middle era of our chromosone changes? How will our idealistic behaviour adapt to technology in the next coming years? Can we change graff? Or is it always going to be stuck in this

 

repetative cycle

repetative cycle

repetative cycle......

oh sorry I am repeating myself!

*cough* *cough*

 

where does graff go next?

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Don't you seem to notice after being in this game for long time posts all looks very similar! I mean, after 4 years of posting I am bored of what I see!

Don't get me wrong, but there are very few who are different and if you take just a few posters from channel zero for example, on the 'post myspace pics' thread, and click on the pics, who out of those emo sluts, who has something that the others in the myspace community don't have.

I guess I am just unimpressed with posts these days. That includes myself for that matter. Where will this web-culture turn to once the middle era of our chromosone changes? How will our idealistic behaviour adapt to technology in the next coming board updates? Can we change user titles? Or is it always going to be stuck in this

 

junior member

senior member

veteran member......

oh sorry I am repeating myself!

*cough* *cough*

 

where does 12oz go next?

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whoa...dejavu.

 

i also ponder these questions that you bring up from time to time;

but then there a million answers and a million opinions to go along with it.

it is futile to think about these things. i always find myself coming back

to whatever it is i get bored with anyway: graffiti, sex, 12oz...

 

and then the cycle continues.

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in each section of graff there has been an evolution in its form. I ask this because in Renaissance there where the frescos of that period, then then it has clearly evolved to aerosol. But for the last 30 years we have begun something. Yet there has been no significant impact on "graffiti's" lifestyle.

I suggest a change, maybe this post can begin something! I mean why not try something that is different, for example ABOVE (for the last 30 mins I went searching for his work online, but I am dumbfounded on where

it was I saw his work:confused: ) otherwise maybe you can change the scene somewhat. And I am not talking about killer letters and crazy wildstyle, I mean something that is poignant in its element. Something that is not innovative but innventive! That is my proposal to any of you who desire a change in the ever so redundant urban lifestyle!

I know I will try!

 

:idea:

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Seeking: aren't you bored of graff and it non-evolutional change?

I mean if you could change anything other than me posting this, what would you change? Because it seems to be that you are locked in your own box and that the paradigm shift is about you!

 

Just a thought, not an attack on your personal hygene...;)

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...this is a joke right?...i mean seriously, 'evolutionary change'?...we're still talking about graffiti right?...a bunch of kids that have no respect and paint their made-up names on things?...you're talking like you think this is going to change the way 'art' does...this isn't 'art'...it's vandalism...

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To say graffiti is not art is an obvious sign that you don't understand it. Not all of it is vandalism, only the illegal jobs. It is a medium of expression, a creative one, that branchs into many art forms, from simple stencils to pasting posters to throwing up fantastic and elaborate paintings. It is a newer, modern, urban form of expression, one that says fuck you to rules on proprty and is a rape of ones thoughts into the viewers minds. Perhaps some kids jsut write a big ugly "fuck you" and that is the equivalent of stick figures. Some do take it to a higher level and acheive great creativity. Nervous, I have not looked on the Art Crimes site much, but some artists in tm from memphis have definitely done some very high work, http://www.graffiti.org/tm/tm_2.html

You ought to check them out, I don't know how it compares to other things you've seen but it madly inspries me every time I see a piece from them, as an artist, a graf writer, and a person. I guess they don't get up much anymore, but the mark they have left is amazing.

Personally I would like to see more writing in media other than paint, like metal working, scultiping, 3d graphics, even architecture who knows. maybe even intgrating into design like car design, bicycles, shrug. There are properties of different writing styles that fit well into other things, like sleek looks and flowing design, etc. Writers interested in "evolving" graffiti forms should push themselves to bend and craft those attributes of good graffiti into other forms. wouldn't it be dope to see a birds eye view of a neighborhood and realize whoever lanend the street ayout jsut wrote out his word and fixed up the extensions and letters and shit into streets. These are basic ideas, be more creative, raise the bar. Peace

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Art:

 

#

 

1. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.

2. The study of these activities.

3. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.

 

# High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.

# A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.

# A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.

#

 

1. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.

2. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.

 

#

 

1. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.

2. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates).

 

#

 

1. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.

2. Artful contrivance; cunning.

 

# Printing. Illustrative material.

 

__________________

Art ([aum]rt), n. [F. art, L. ars, artis, orig., skill in joining or fitting; prob. akin to E. arm, aristocrat, article.] 1. The employment of means to accomplish some desired end; the adaptation of things in the natural world to the uses of life; the application of knowledge or power to practical purposes.

 

Blest with each grace of nature and of art. --Pope.

 

2. A system of rules serving to facilitate the performance of certain actions; a system of principles and rules for attaining a desired end; method of doing well some special work; -- often contradistinguished from science or speculative principles; as, the art of building or engraving; the art of war; the art of navigation.

 

Science is systematized knowledge . . . Art is knowledge made efficient by skill. --J. F. Genung.

 

3. The systematic application of knowledge or skill in effecting a desired result. Also, an occupation or business requiring such knowledge or skill.

 

The fishermen can't employ their art with so much success in so troubled a sea. --Addison.

 

4. The application of skill to the production of the beautiful by imitation or design, or an occupation in which skill is so employed, as in painting and sculpture; one of the fine arts; as, he prefers art to literature.

 

5. pl. Those branches of learning which are taught in the academical course of colleges; as, master of arts.

 

In fearless youth we tempt the heights of arts. --Pope.

 

Four years spent in the arts (as they are called in colleges) is, perhaps, laying too laborious a foundation. --Goldsmith.

 

6. Learning; study; applied knowledge, science, or letters. [Archaic]

 

So vast is art, so narrow human wit. --Pope.

 

7. Skill, dexterity, or the power of performing certain actions, acquired by experience, study, or observation; knack; as, a man has the art of managing his business to advantage.

 

8. Skillful plan; device.

 

They employed every art to soothe . . . the discontented warriors. --Macaulay.

 

9. Cunning; artifice; craft.

 

Madam, I swear I use no art at all. --Shak.

 

Animals practice art when opposed to their superiors in strength. --Crabb.

 

10. The black art; magic. [Obs.] --Shak

___________________________

n 1: the products of human creativity; works of art collectively; "an art exhibition"; "a fine collection of art" [syn: fine art] 2: the creation of beautiful or significant things; "art does not need to be innovative to be good"; "I was never any good at art"; "he said that architecture is the art of wasting space beautifully" [syn: artistic creation, artistic production] 3: a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation; "the art of conversation"; "it's quite an art" [syn: artistry, prowess] 4: photographs or other visual representations in a printed publication; "the publisher was responsible for all the artwork in the book" [syn: artwork, graphics, nontextual matter]

_______________________

 

Artist

n.

 

1. One, such as a painter, sculptor, or writer, who is able by virtue of imagination and talent or skill to create works of aesthetic value, especially in the fine arts.

2. A person whose work shows exceptional creative ability or skill: You are an artist in the kitchen.

3. One, such as an actor or singer, who works in the performing arts.

4. One who is adept at an activity, especially one involving trickery or deceit: a con artist.

________________

 

Porque, reading your post made me realize that you don't know what art is, and you like to open your cumguzzlng mouth before you have any thought behind what comes out of it. Don't worry, if your foot doesn't taste delicious I'll gladly shove mine down you throat. Peace.

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porque, i did not mean to come across as a hater or anything ,wasn't in a good mood when posting. if you don't take graffiti seriously as an art, then you won't ever do anything artful with it, at least not on purpose. it's all a matter of what you feel about what you do and what you choose to do with your abilities. not every writer is an artist, but neither is every actor, nor every lyric writer, nor every cartoonist. each individual has his own reasons and all, but be open midned to the fact that some do take it seriously as a means of expresisng themselves and being creative. if you're not down with the artsy fag shit, cool enough, do whatever you like just keep it real and do it wholly.

also, nervous, any medium of expresson has limitations, from language to sound and music to physical action to drawing. graffiti is jsut a style of art that applies to different mediums, so writers and tagges and whatever elsers will always face limitations in the way they choose to put up. a lot of writers focus on the letters of the word, extensions and fancy sleek alphabets and so on. i would like to see more focus done on the "hidden picture" as opposed to the letters. everyone here would agree, hope, that a tag that is a word, but written cleverly in the shape of something distinguishable, like a face or whatever, looks more dope than jsut crazy looking letters. study geometry, triganomtery, mathematics, and language, find ways to draw paradoxes and shit, images of illusion and siht that stimulate the mind. personally i'm a fan of escher, he's done mad work with transformations and self symmetry. look into fractals and shit too, there are whole fields of math and visual combined that are very stimulating to the mind of the viewer, and require a lot of deep thought from a freehand artist. you menitoned changing technology applied to art. computers can aid a great deal in figuring up wild patterns and thematic designs which could artistically be implemented into writing on the wall. even simple things like using graphics programs to blow up pixelate images; or to invert colors and make negatives, black and whites, etc, for stencils, mutli-layered stencils, and so on. there's a lot you can do. develop your styles and the more you learn the more you can apply to create masterpieces. try something new each time your on the run, and eventually you'll figure out something new. anyway i'm done rambling, keep it real, peace

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whoa. a lot to read...but yea, test, not everyone cares that it moves forward..as an art. I religiously read the byline on artcrimes, and it helps put some of this into perspective, little... as the most recent one, graff is not art, it is process. but there are so many arguements and different angles to look at it.

 

yea. Nervous: a lot does look the same, there have been no major changes as in traditional art, save that graff is becoming more mainstream and accepted. opposite of what most wnat it to be. i think thats the only change is gaining acceptance really.

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yeah. i'm bored of that too... i don't know seems to me that in us people in same city take lines from one guy, styles are just too damn similar, in finland most of the graff is based on old tpccdc-styles... etc. i'm not fond of people not changing their styles at all... and people doing too similar styles etc. i'd like to see people trying something new, trying to find something of their own (like in my town), and that's why i like to watch eastern european flicks nowdays... the stuff isn't always too good, but it's damn innovative. those guys are trying to find new things. and imo it's far more interesting than to watch 9000th piece from muralist wich looks just the same than his 8999 pieces before that.

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Originally posted by test

Porque, reading your post made me realize that you don't know what art is, and you like to open your cumguzzlng mouth before you have any thought behind what comes out of it. Don't worry, if your foot doesn't taste delicious I'll gladly shove mine down you throat. Peace.

 

 

Originally posted by test

porque, i did not mean to come across as a hater or anything

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...reading your comments has lead me to completely believe that you have no idea what you're talking about...your idea of what art is is completely misguided and naive...

 

...'graffin' (the term seemingly most poular in this forum) is not 'art'...however...it could quite easily be characterized as a craft or skill...kinda like pottery making for example...a viewer can compare two completely different pots...one, might be very smooth, sleek, symetrical and demonstate a refined technique from the creator...the other might be rather rough, crudely put together, crooked and look like something made by someone thta has never made a pot before...but both of them are still pots...and they probably both hold water...craft such as this is on par with other crafts, such as woodworking, cooking, model train railroading, etc...

 

...'art' on the hand...is completely different...and way too in depth for me to confuse you by trying to explain it...but i think if you think about it hard enough you'll realize that what i mean by craft is essentially what you mean by art, however when i say art you think of nothing of the sort...

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Crafts and arts are cosely related, it's all in how you use the word(s). I quoted the dictionary to point out the mad amounts of differing definitions of art. Any craftor technique or process, as perhap stated it, can be done artfully. Art is a means of conveying a feeling, capturing a moment, expressing idea, through a medium that is unrelated. If something pisses you off, and you show you're angry by being angry, throwing a fit and acting upset, it is not art. If you go and write some clever rhyme about how ytou feel, or daw an intense picture, or compose a deep piece of music, to release your emotion, it is art. If you say graffiti isn't creative, you'd offend a lot of the writers on here. Even simple stencils can be art in a crude form. ALthough it's the same picture over ad over again, there was a point at which it was made, and could have been done artfully. A copy of the Mona Lisa is as much art as the original. Like perhap said, there are many angles to look at something. This stated, it eems to me it's more correct to convey an inclusive point of view than an exclusive one. Just because you don't see something some way doesn't mean no one else does, but if you do see somethig some way that is enough to say someone does. Many things are a matter of perspective, especially those of the opinion sort. Read the Republic from Plato, look for Socrates' famous metaphor about the prisoners in the cave. If you really care about what you're saying, you'll look it up on sparknotes.com or somewhere yourself, or I'l gladly share it with you at your own asking. Anyone can go fry a tv dinner or burn up a hamburger, or cook a succulant and delicious meal, layed out on an extremely appealing platter. One might taste better, or they might both turn like shit, but just like your pots are just pots, the food is still just food. It doesn't mean art didn't take place in either one. Just because the product is not highly aesthetic does not mean it is not art, it simply means the artist has not mastered his craft. Open your mind a bit, and don't make irrational judgements on other people's understandings.

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WTF!!!

 

Nayyyyyyyyyyhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Whoa Horsey, Whoa!!!!

 

I don't post for what 4 days and this turns to a philosophical brewHaHa!!!....(laughing hysterically) ahahaha ahahaha hahahaha ahahah ah

 

Fuck guys....Art is either Playgurism or Vandalism, and you all have very valid points. Some I agree with and others your views still interest me. What we must realize is that this our chance, as graff artists or whatever the fuck you want to call yourself to leave a profound watermark in this important sub-culture.

You don't have to agree with each other, But what you do have to do is acknowledge that you are what's going on and you need to make the change to what you want this game to be to you.

 

No one, and you already know this, can and should tell you otherwise.

 

 

Keep the Peace. Stay Positive.

 

 

 

 

Seeking: have you ever thought of a profession in Stand-up Comedy

 

 

 

www.bombtheworld.net

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Originally posted by Nervous

Seeking: aren't you bored of graff and it non-evolutional change?

I mean if you could change anything other than me posting this, what would you change? Because it seems to be that you are locked in your own box and that the paradigm shift is about you!

 

clearly you know absolutely nothing about me, otherwise you'd realize how ridiculous your accusations are. i've never sat around stagnant with a style. i've fallen flat on my face at times by trying different shit, but i've never been complacent. personally, i'm all about evolution and pushing yourself, but that's me, and thats what i have control over. i'd love to see cats in america experimenting more, but at the same time, i'd also like to see them taking things back a decade and working on graff from a purists perspective. learn a hand before a piece, respect those that came before you, etc. also, i could really give a shit less about 'art' in the graff world. it takes a fucking super scientifical piece on a legal wall to get me even half as excited as a serf throw up.

i've never met a writer that i respected, who constantly tried to push the 'graffiti as art' angle. if you look at graff and all you see is art, it's because you have no balls and have no business pretending to be a writer.

that's not directed towards you, it's my opinion on anyone who tries pushing that agenda. graff should not be accepted in america, because once it's accepted, it's co-opted and used a marketing tool. no thanks. keep it gully.

 

and yes, the stand up comic idea has been mentioned.

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.... i only read the first 3 posts

 

 

uhm yes

 

i stopped looking at graffiti a long time ago with the exception on one or two threads in paperchase and the heavans..

 

 

i dont even bother looking when i'm in a big city anymore

 

eh for the first time i agree with seeking.....lets not let this happen again..

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...test...it seems thta you understand my anology pretty clearly...but you completely missed the point...i'm not down-grading craft...i'm mearly stating that it's completely different than 'art'...i never said anything about graffiti not being creative...but just becasue something is creative, doesn't make it art...and quoting a thousand year old philosophical text on aesthetics doesn't mean much to me...if you really want to argue me about this come up with points that are relevant to the contemporary age...your 'inclusive' definition of 'art' is so broad that it includes everything, and completely degrades everything to the same level...sorry but i can't buy that...

 

...don't judge what you think i do based on your inferences from what i comment about here...you don't know me...or my work...or how i approach graffiti...

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porque, I did not aim to judge on what you do, that was jsut what i felt lik you were doing to me, judghing what i do or what i think, but anyway, like i said art is a loose word. i do not aim to degrade things to a common level, and i see how it could be quite easy for you to feel that my definiton of art allows that. I will make this analogy. Two people can skateboard, one can kick ass ass and do a bunch of wild tricks and one can suck balls. They're both skateboarding, although one is hideous to see and the other delightful. No, they aren't on the same level, but there is still a degree of commonality.

The citing of the Republic was not at all to define art or aesthetics, it is a metaphor about perception, simply to enforce the argument I made about different points of view on the same thing. If you read the Republic, you'd learna lot (or maybe be proud of the fact that some famous philospher from over 2000 years ago viewed points you probably already understand) about social issues that people face. Society has been society, for more than a thousand years. Nothing new under the sun.

You are correct to say I don't know your work or your take on graffiti. I'm not trying to pretend t know anything about you at all. Personally I'm not really an 'artful writer' at all, nor very good (ok, i SUCK on the all) , but I was interested in what nervous wrote and I thought I had some ideas he may find interesting or applicable to his questions. I jsut like gettin up as much as can, and to me that's what it's about, gettin up, one way or nother, clever and artsy or simple or jsut crude ugly. if they don't like it, fuck em. if they do, fuck em, and make it uglier next time. anyway that's all, no disrespect meant, keep i real, peace

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...i've already read the republic, as well as probably everyother philosophy text you've ever heard of...but thanks for the book club recomendations...and since you still don't seem to actually understand my analogy, let me attempt to explain it again...

...your example of skateboarding is usable...and while someone could judge one person as a better skateboarder than the other, using some sort of criteria that is measurable and universally accepted (...problematic clause, but i'll allow it...)...but as you correctly pointed out, they're both still skateboarding...if one of them sudden;y showed up and said, 'watch this killer new trick i learned, brah'...and then picked up a bmx and did a bunny hop...what would you think?...did he just break amazing artistic ground in skateboarding?...no...he's riding a fuckin bike, it's not skateboarding anymore...they way you guys are talking about 'graff' changing is basically the same thing...it just sounds ridiculous if you think about it...all graffiti looks the same because it's all graffiti...it will always look like graffiti, becasue if it didn't it would no longer be graffiti...

 

...'art' is something completely different...i would hate it if graffiti was 'art'...it would degrade graffiti completely...and destroy everything that graffiti represents...

 

 

...ps...you're a big banksy fan, aren't you?...

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Hell no I don't know who the fuck this banksy kid is, someone in the yard said something about him to me the other day cause i saud use a pizza box for a stencil. i feel what you're saying about graffiti and art being different things, and I think you're jsut referring to art in the visual/painitng since, which is cool and you're not really incorrect. What I'm talking about though, and I think nervous too, is about the "art of graffiti", i.e., the skills/techniques of it. Just like the "art of making fart noises" There are apparent techniques, styles, and ways of going about doing it, when you're doing graffiti. Nervous was simply saying he's becoming bored of such styles and techniques, and wonders if there is room for change, analgous to how art evolves. Viewing it as an art as a means to push the creative bar is not really a bad thing, I don't think. Like nervous said, seeing the mad similarities of most graffiti gets old, and he'd like to see new stuff come about. Whether it's correct or not, you gotta lay it down as something if you want to make it better. This whole debate is worthless and stupid, anyway. THe point of this topic was t motivate change, not bicker over what is. Good insight though, keep it real, peace.

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