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Understanding the North/South divide

Discussion in 'News' started by villain, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    Hello all.
    I'm posting this in it's own thread because I don't think anyone is reading it because I originally put it in that fuckthesouth.com thread.
    Anyways I think this is a very interesting description of the cultural differences of north/south red/blue etc and how these differences came to be.

  2. <KEY3>

    <KEY3> Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Messages: 6,878 Likes Received: 2
    the gangsta group Public Enemy....

    umm.... not so much.
  3. sillysiphilis

    sillysiphilis Member

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005 Messages: 468 Likes Received: 0
    To assume that America's outstanding record of violence (in comparison to other developed nations) stems from it's development as a nation strikes me as a dubious claim. I would think colonialism is a bit too outdated to root it as a source of our violent tendencies. Sure, the 'honor culture' may perpetually arise generation to generation, but it's continuation would be attributed more to the environment its in (rural or inner city), then the history of it's existence.
    Yea, I know that's what he was getting at, it's just that whole 'colonial history' part just threw me off. That's like saying there are more drunks in Australia because the initial white settlers were British outlaws.
    Aside from that, good stuff.
  4. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,130 Likes Received: 66
    I think that the theory holds water pretty well, but I'm not at all sure that we can trace the Honor Culture back to herding goats. I think the economic element (easily portable wealth being easy to steal) is a very good bet, but the cultural "bully" aspect of the inner city probably has a lot more to do with inner-city violence than economics. Criminals have very poor boundaries. They do not recognize or respect other peoples' property rights. They feel entitled to take whatever they want, or destroy whatever they can, just because they "want to." They should not be surprised when the people that they harm wish to kill them. To avoid this unpleasant reality, all one need do is avoid bullying, robbing or harming others. Treat other people with dignity and respect, and most likely, they will treat YOU with dignity and respect.

    This is an extrapolation of the "An armed society is a polite society" Southernism. True for me. Don't know about you.

    KING BLING Guest

    Maybe in the inner city it has more to do with not having anything, and thus a lack of values related to ownership combined with nothing to lose...

    Also, peep the old list...
  6. bobthebuilder

    bobthebuilder Member

    Joined: Nov 15, 2004 Messages: 295 Likes Received: 1
    I advise anyone who wants to learn about any of this to take some college lever History clasess. The reason why we city people view the south as being "Slow, redneck, hilbilly" is because of the fact that a lot of the south is just that, and its the Norths fault. After the civil war the reconstruction fucked them up so bad that they are still struggling to this day.
  7. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    I also think the portability of wealth is the strongest argument here as well.
    Maybe some of you missed it but it transfers the idea to the inner city with the onset of crack cocaine.

    And bob: The nation was going industrialized anyways. That's where the money was going at the time. I guess that's why rednecks in the north are metalheads and rednecks in the south listen to country. The south chose to stay agrarian and suffered financially because of it.
  8. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,130 Likes Received: 66
    The "agrarian South" is only marginally true today. The South is not nearly as agrarian as the Midwest or the Northwest. The Gulf Coast, in particular (where I live--in Houston) is heavily industrialized. Houston is the second-largest chemical and petroleum manufacturing city in the U.S., and the third-largest port.

    The "industrial vs. agrarian" thing was true up until around 1950. Today, there is industry of all sorts just about all through the South. There are, of course, still a few agricultural workers and people who choose to remain poor and out in the boondocks, but it's a CHOICE. They are able to remain there because of AFDC and public assistance. Nation-wide, only about 3% of the population is still involved in agriculture, and the "family farms" are fighting the corporate farms tooth and nail trying to stay in business. The rest of the rural population moved to the city thirty or forty years ago.

    Reconstruction ended here in Texas in 1876. In less than a year, the Republicans and Radical Republicans were driven from office, and the Democratic Party (the ex-Confederates) swept virtually every political office in the state. It remained like that until the 1980's. The massive changes that have taken place in the South have changed culture some, but the "honor" thing is still very strong here.

    Interesting, when you think about it, that the whole "respect" thing is a white Southern tradition that lives on among the primarially African-American inner-city poor, even up North.

    "Having something" is a relative thing. The poorest people in the U.S. are still rich compared to the average person in the Third World.
  9. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    Point WELL taken Kabar... :)

    And about "having something" being relative to an extent... I recently found out that there is a psychological term called "anhedonia" that deals with this condition. I think it's pretty prevalent in the US this condition of being desensitized to what we have and desiring more and more to stay happy.
  10. angelofdeath

    angelofdeath Elite Member

    Joined: Sep 15, 2002 Messages: 4,375 Likes Received: 79
    i've read statistics that if the "south" (the 11 states of the confederacy) was its own country it would have the 3rd largest economy in the world. and kabar's post is dead on.
  11. sillysiphilis

    sillysiphilis Member

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005 Messages: 468 Likes Received: 0
    To follow up on villian and kabar's points-
    What might contribute to the prevalence of violence in impoverished areas of the States is the consumerist culture that saturates our media. living up to the ideal image of the American as the conspicuous consumer would inevitably lead to resentment in those who fail to do so, and only the most insecure types might resort to violence. There are studies that prove this- societies in other countries that might fall far below any poverty yardstick but are oblivious of being so tend to be more content then those who may be better off, but are actually aware of their financial state in relation to their countries'.
  12. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    There's plus's and minus's to the north and the south. I'll tell you what though as stupid and backwards as we see the south, they are alot more free than us. Where I'm at it's a fucking police state with cops everywere looking to lockup everybody for anything. Down south you hardly ever see a cop (not that they aint shitheads when you do see them)

    Just an observational rant. Not picking sides.
  13. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,130 Likes Received: 66
    The "IQ and Politics" chart was quite interesting. The odd thing is that the states with the lowest IQ (according to the chart) tend to be the Southern states with the largest African-American populations. Since I definately do not believe in any race/intelligence correlation, the only thing I can think of is that the most ambitious and well-educated people from the poorest Southern states must have headed for greener pastures, and the less-ambitious and less-well-educated people must have remained in the South. All the data points to cultural bias in testing slanting the results against African-Americans. Since the African-American culture is essentially a Southern culture, regardless of where it is found (this is why Northern black folks say "y'all") I suspect that the bias might be REGIONAL and not just racial. But I have no statistics or data to back up that speculation, just a gut-level feeling.

    When I was in the Marine Corps, I found that Southerners, both black and white, tended to stick together. Kind of odd, considering the supposed racial disharmony of the South. I think it had to do with a shared culture.
  14. H. Lecter

    H. Lecter Senior Member

    Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Messages: 1,844 Likes Received: 4
    The south politician preaches to the poor white man,
    "You've got more than the blacks.
    Don't complain"
    "You're better than them,You've been born with white skin"
    They explain.

    And the negros name,
    Is used it is plain,
    for the politicians gain,
    as he rises to fame,
    and the poor white remain,
    on the caboose of the train,
    but it ain't him it to blame,
    he's only a pawn in the game.

    The poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool,
    He's taught in his school,
    from the start by the rules,
    that the laws are with him,
    to protect his white skin,
    to keep up his heat,
    and never think straight,
    bout the shape that he's in;
    but it ain't him to blame,
    he's only a pawn in the game.

    From the poverty shacks,
    he looks through the cracks to the tracks.
    And the hoof-beats pound in his brain.
    And he's taught how to walk in a pack,
    shoot in the back,
    with his fist in a clench,
    to hang and to lynch,
    to hide 'neath the hood,
    to kill with no pain,
    like a dog on a chain,
    he ain't got no name,
    but it ain't him to blame,
    he's only a pawn in the game.
  15. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    Race in the United States. Ever feel like a second class citizen?
    Are you a hyphenated american?

    We never hear European-American. Do they consider themselves the only true americans? Something to think about I picked up from another demographer. Apparently, census data is showing LESS equality in america since 1994.