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Triumph is going to destroy the USA :(

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by kingkongone, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 11,136 Likes Received: 1,897
    We learned a long time ago that they get it from big buds
    117.jpg
     
    KILZ FILLZ likes this.
  2. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,835 Likes Received: 828
    This is just operation storm fury running an excercise with HAARP and our intergalactic allies

    Stay calm
     
  3. KILZ FILLZ

    KILZ FILLZ Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 30, 2008 Messages: 14,018 Likes Received: 964
  4. Hua Guofang

    Hua Guofang Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Oct 29, 2013 Messages: 1,759 Likes Received: 368
    I'm sorry for posting this thread but time and access are a problem:

    Re: Vegas shooting.
    Even if every concert goer was armed they would not have been able to defend themselves.
     
  5. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,773 Likes Received: 312
    No doubt... Impossible to stop all tragedies from happening. You can't always prevent, let alone legislate away, evil. But doesn't stop me from believing its a basic human right to be able to defend yourself and your loved ones.

    Few people seem to know this fact, but the United States Supreme Court ruled that the police are not obligated to protect you unless you are actively in their custody. In other words, if shit pops off, its their legal right (as decided by the United States Supreme Court) to run away just like anyone else. They are no more obligated to stick around and defend your life than the stranger beside you.

    Reference: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/p...a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html?mcubz=0
     
  6. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,835 Likes Received: 828
    That's not what happened though, they piled on top of others to create a human shield from bullet fire.

    You can't legislate heroics lol
     
  7. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,773 Likes Received: 312
    Not sure I understand your comment?

    People in Orlando were locked in a club for a prolonged period of time(believe it was a couple hours) until the guy started slaughtering them over a roughly 15 minute period. Supposedly a good deal of them were piled on top of each other in bathroom stalls in a feeble attempt to stay out of sight. Many made phone calls begging for help that came way late, no doubt greatly adding to the death toll in that incident.

    Anything we come up with is obviously speculation but if just one person in that bathroom had a gun on them, it very well could have been a game changer. Again, posted gun free zone. Only person armed was the guy that ignored the sign.

    Agree or not, I can say that had I been there I’d certainly have preferred to have been armed.
     
  8. Hua Guofang

    Hua Guofang Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Oct 29, 2013 Messages: 1,759 Likes Received: 368
    Untrue that he was the only armed person. There was a trained armed guard in the club. They traded fire and I believe the guard (who was an off duty cop) was killed.
     
  9. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,835 Likes Received: 828
    The cops piled on people to save them. They did not run away like you said they're allowed to do under the supreme court decision you brought up.

    So they waived their supreme court protected right to flee the scene in an attempt to save lives.

    I
     
  10. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,773 Likes Received: 312
    Where are you getting this from? Most of the people killed were inside the club with a large bunch being in the bathroom. Cops weren't inside until the murderer was dead.

    But how is that relevant? Even it is fact (unsure myself), because some cops reacted well in this instance you'd assume they would in all situations or even most? Considering for several years people here have been protesting police, if not outright rioting, is there really all that much confidence in them putting their asses on the line to save yours? Especially after the Supreme Court took the time to hear the case and officially declare it isn't their duty or responsibility?

    I'm definitely not trusting my life and that of my family on the hope that a cop is going to do the right thing (assuming he's even capable considering how poorly trained most cops are) and be there to save my life. Not to say I wont allow him to if he's there, but I'm not going to solely depend on only that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  11. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,773 Likes Received: 312
    He ambushed the security guard after bypassing him. Not exactly the same thing as being one of the people cowering behind cover or concealment that could have been armed. Also, I'm not saying it would have stopped the guy. Only that if it were me, I'd rather have had a fighting chance by being armed myself and that had one of those people inside (or better yet, several of them) been armed, I think it's unlikely it would have dragged out as long as it did or that he'd have killed as many.
     
  12. Brink

    Brink Junior Member

    Joined: Mar 28, 2012 Messages: 196 Likes Received: 58
    Who in the right mind would want people armed in a night club. Drugs are enough of an issue, the last thing you would want to accompany it is a gun. Additionally, regardless of the situation, the defendant would always be reacting to a hostile situation, at which point having a gun wouldn't matter if you are among the first ones shot. The alternative is to arm EVERYONE, and I sure as hell don't think that would go well.
     
  13. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,773 Likes Received: 312
    You make a reasonable point, though I still cant fathom being trapped with a bunch of people trying to hide myself so I'm not the next one slaughtered by some murderer on a killing spree. Guess that's why I dont really go to places like that.

    In any case, I've mentioned the cultural differences before in previous comments. I'll admit when I lived in NYC it was hard to imagine people being armed despite the fact that I was still often traveling to go shoot. Likewise, when I left NYC to where I am now, it was an eye opener to see random people walking around with guns on their hip. Now, I don't think twice about even when I'm in big social gatherings and there's an obvious presence of armed people. Ironically (or perhaps not), its actually a much more passive and friendly environment than most public events I've ever attended elsewhere. Really does suck that as a society we live amongst people that would do the type of shit we just saw in Las Vegas. Just don't know what the solution is when it shows up in front of you other than to hope you're prepared to stop it before you get claimed with the rest of the victims.

    Anyhow, lots of great input and thought in these comments. Happy to know we've been able to discuss a pretty loaded topic without it blowing up into an emotionally fueled argument. Doubt anyones position on the matter changed much and wasn't expecting us to solve the issue ourselves here on the forum, but still has been an interesting discussion none the less.
     
  14. Brink

    Brink Junior Member

    Joined: Mar 28, 2012 Messages: 196 Likes Received: 58
    Its as much cultural as it is just where you've grown up. Being from a suburb in New England is vastly different from growing up in, say, NYC. I have conflicting feelings about carrying, simply because I do agree with your concerns about being trapped with no possible way to defend yourself. However, I don't trust many people to keep their emotions in check, and having a firearm literally at your waist could escalate a small argument to something way larger. There's a lot of fucked up people in this world who will (clearly) abuse their right to a firearm, but trusting everyday citizens to act as law enforcement is a tricky path.

    And I enjoy open discussions about these issues so long as people are level headed. I think dialogues, even on a forum, can force people to challenge and defend their own thoughts. Who knows, maybe opinions will change.
     
  15. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,773 Likes Received: 312
    Very reasonable concern. I trust most people as far as I can throw them and often wonder how many of them manage to get home each evening without being hit by a bus. Guess its a sad fact that there's a lot of damage we need to undue in this country when it comes to respect, critical thinking, responsibility and many more critical qualities and topics. And as far as the personal conflict, I agree with you... But it still comes down to the decision of do you disarm everyone due to the fact that there is no reasonable way to screen against idiocy? Ultimately you're still facing the same situation, however, which is to say that there's more historical precedence set and evidence shown, especially in this country, that disarming people doesn't resolve the issue of violence. Quite the opposite in fact, if we scrutinize the periods and places where firearms ownership was restricted or banned in this country.
     
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