Theory on graffiti getting worse in general...

You remember when we all grew up and we had those penmanship workbooks. Actually writing essays instead of typing them out in school. No one is even forced to practice even their handwriting nowadays. I blame it all on the computers... Its pretty sad that all these new kids can't even write their name legible.

In my opinion, its the basis to doing any graffiti. You can copy a piece or throwup to perfection, and then when I see some terrible freehand it just discredits you completely.. At least this is the case in nyc where every generation, the writers just get worse and worse. Shit is going backwards it makes no sense. I guess back in the 80's and 90's we at least knew how to write proportionally... If I didn't know any better, I would think these kids are retarded...

i agree.from what ive seen(state your name video)writers like nov york and spot and others just do whack handstyles.there looking over style and fluency and the graffiti basics with handstyles and just doing it,no style,nothing.

but i blame it on the kindergarten teachers.they have the choice to either start the kids writing nice,or just writing period.mine personally just told us to write it dosent matter how just do it.but caligraphy class will help.

ugly graffiti rules -

I thought graffitti died in ny in 89?

i have seen some truly awful handwriting from some of the more recent writers to come out in my area. as you say, these guys memorize pieces and throwups by practicing the same outline over and over, but fall flat on their face when they deviate from the script.

some of it is impatience. when me or you were coming up, most writers were starting around age 12 or so. i had a few years to practice on paper before i was able and ready to go out and bomb. by the time i had access to a car and was able to paint over a wide area, highways etc., i had a lot of work under my belt.

many of today's writers are just starting to try their hand at graffiti when they are already in their twenties. they see other writers, often their friends hitting crazy spots and they want to do it too. they aren't going to wait two years while they getting their pencil game up.

a lot of people are into graffiti more for the addrenalin/adventure aspect than the art/craftsmanship aspect. in the past, these people just did tags and throwups that were simple but classic. now these people all want to do pieces and stay up with all the style trends. this leads to a lot of painting by people who really don't care about how their shit looks as long as it gets seen.

finally, the fact that so many people who are wack but are down with the in crowd or follow all the trends get props, especially on the internet takes away any incentive for the new writers to get good. they see the way to sucess in graffiti as being social climbing and scensterism. which it is now. get down with right people and in a year you get taken to more dope spots than you would have found on your own in 10 years. especially if you want to paint trains, this is important.

if you bomb with XXXX from XXX crew, you will come off in magazines, on 12 oz threads etc even if you suck. if your dope but not scene-certified, picture takers will go down the wall and skip your piece, then post the scenester pieces on either side of you on twelve ounce and jockers will repeat their names 15 times down the rest of thread. jesus christ knows ive seen that happen a hundred times on here.

we can complain all day about how graffiti has changed for the worse, but how many people actually go out of their way to show new and young writers what's up? i have given a ridiculous amount of time over the last 5 years or so doing this. but most "good" writers will maybe sign some kids black book at a show and thats it. they only want to paint with guys on their level. that's fine, then you really cant complain about the kids.

Wow. Thanks for the heads up, Worlds. I think I can afford a year or two before I hit the streets for sure.

It honestly isn't that long when you think about it.

Yeah, graffiti is pretty terrible these days. Is graffiti dead all over the US, or just where I live?

i started ia little after i turned 14. For the past year almost iv just been drawing and practicing painting. And once in a while go out and bomb

from what i hear graffiti is starting to become trendy?

THE "BANDWAGON" HAS BEEN STUCK IN REVERSE

FOR SOME TIME NOW.

I DON'T EVEN BOTHER BURNING PIECES ANY MORE,

THERE TRULY UN APPRECIATED BY THE

NEWJACK MASSES.

I THINK IV'E LET THEM ALL BRAINWASH ME

INTO THINKING SKILLS AND STYLE AINT SHIT NO MO.

I THINK IF I USED MY WRONG HAND , AND STOCK TIPS

WITH LARGE SHINES I COULD BE DOWN AGAIN ?

NAAAAAA, FUK EM .

I wasn't around from the "beginning", nor have I seen graffiti evolve within every part of the world, so I can't honestly say that graffiti has become worse, in general.

I think alot of it has to do with the circumstances that writers have to deal with today. This probably doesnt apply everywhere, but for the most part, I think we all can agree getting up is harder nowadays. With the terrorist watch, new security devices, more knowledgeable cops, and the fact graffiti's being exploited more than ever, one can see how putting up quality work consistently can be a extremely difficult task.

Recently in my area, graffiti become the popular thing suddeny, and obviously shit got hot again. Media started covering it, people got caught, and out of the tons of rubbish, new writers with potential were discovered. Shit is rather cool now, but give it a few months or so, and the real writers and new toys will be out putting in work all over again. I believe its all in cycles.

But then again, one has to take into account that it all depends on where youre from. One could say graffiti is getting shittier in the US big cities, while another could say graffiti is just starting to get crazy in some small country in Africa. Its all in perspective I suppose.

Anyway thats my rant for the day. Sorry if it doest make sense.

yo yo check my philly hands chopped up la gangsta style b...i gots the 13 after the le ta keep shit gutter naw mean.

wow we gotta dr phil on graffiti ......just wat we need...

I think its all got to do with what writers see when they are coming up...but then there are those that just don't give a shit.

this is dead i been saying this.

people are just dumb in general these days. everything is going backwards, so graffiti wouldnt be excluded. motherfuckers love ugly graff just because it is there.

\

the fans are as retarded as the numbnut who painted it. in short when did quantity mean more than quality. i have no time to waste, and if you suck, stop. your making me look bad and anyone else who knows whats up regarding graff.

have fun with your ugly graffiti while i get cake off the opposite.

and fuck all that jazz about it being harder to get up that is a false statement.

since when was it harder than any other time to pick up a can and spray. its a matter of picking spots, and if that spot is hot like that why spray it. its only hard if you make it hard.

and i dont care what the circumstance is thats no excuse for quality or just being a toy. or lazy. whatever fuck this. if your wack you dont get respect. fuck a circumstance. practicing isnt hard.

who cares... do wat u do..graffiti is gettin worse cuz people sit online all fuckin day and bitch about stupid ass problems reguarding other writers instead of worrien bout themself... and the hole ugly graff thing whos to say wats ugly and wats nice.. some writers dont like "ugly" dirty shyt..some writers dont like super clean shyt..who fuckin cares do ur thing........but as far as gettin up goes... ya there no reason like nut says.. ANY EXCUSE...IS A BAD EXCUSE.. :yuck:

i haven't read most of this.. so sorry if this has been posted..

but there has always been a bunch of people who are terrible. all you see now is pictures of all the decent writers from "back in the day" you don't see the shitty tags that were put up everywhere too.

i can name several people who still pull off beautiful beautiful stuff.

not only that, but a lot of the "shitty" graffiti from now-a-days would be considered amazing 10-15-20 years ago.

To be honest i blame it one the older heads into graff, Kids look to them as there role models and for advice and all thos ekids just get shitted on. They continue to bite styles and do whatever because they have no graff edicate. I'm saying if you find a kid that just got into graff and youve been inthe shit for like 10 yrs now why not show him what to do and what not to do start him off doing some alright shit rather than bumbble letters and what not. Graff has def decreased in style in everycity i can think of. I'm saying don't blame it on computuers or whatever take the blame yourself it's our choice to help other writers out i mean we all startded off and i know for one haven't had people show me shit i just go with what i see and interpert it that way so next time your bored as shit going into a toy forum instead of bashing them tell em what to do or when you meet some younger kid in the area show him whats up. Make sure they know the history aout graff were there from whos up what to do and wha tnot to do i dont knwo im rambling now. one

could be why..

http://www.nyartsmagazine.com/pages/nyam_d...id=749&did=2223

I just realized how horrible i am at typing..........

the reason the handstyle and throw up standard has deteriorated more and more over the years is that their level of importance with the new generations is rather low. in these times of instant gratification, kids aren't interested in laying the groudwork for a good style, they want to jump straight into doing pieces/productions etc. it's what they see in the magazine, on the internet, and in advertising so that is what they aspire to.

when i was coming up it was advised by all the seniors to start small. learn to tag, learn a throw-up, do straight letters, then move onto widstyles or whatever. kids aren't concerned with following this school of thought, and just want to grab a handful of montanas and get to work. the days of staying indoors until you have acquired a certain level of competance are over. every kid out there wants to be a superstar, and they want it now.

anytime a kid asks me for advice, this is what i tell them to do. it's a long and winding road, but if you truly want to be good at graffiti (in all it's forms), then it is the only path to follow.

so to the beginners out there, set aside the next 10 years (at least) because up until then, you're going to suck

it has changed..thats fact graffiti has always evolved each year/century,you look back at the 70's and 80's and to present day,any new artist on the scene goes on the internet and does a search sees all these amazing old school pictures of semi-wildstyle and are amazed (we all been there when we started)and say's right im gona see this through and get to that level and with what help?i mean everyone agrees on here that you have to learn for yourself,but you can only learn show much on your own before you need guidence,and without having an local veteran artist where does he/she turn?the internet..and to be greeted by shit from other people no one wants to post a picture of what they have done to get advice knowing 90% will be laughter and insults and with 10% advice...the point is unless we help each other learn and in turn help the new artist's learn graffiti will go lower and lower with quality and will get higher and higher with quantity.....

how many people who just start out actually no where to find an older artist in there area and have the ball to ask umm?

Just as mr.ABC says start of with one thing at a time......if we just told them this instead of insulting them (hell we take the time to type out insults and jokes enough)maybe graffiti will envolve back from an ape, to a human once again.....

hahaha that last sentence was weird

arguing that the internet has nothing to do with what some people feel is the deterioration of graffiti is foolish. anytime a lifestlye like this is exploited, weather by time magazine, a clothing line (and dont think that after this graff video game comes out things are going to stay the same...you think we deal with bad toys now? wait till my little brother and his friends who cant be fucking bothered to get up and play some football decide they want to have a tagging crew because they played this bullshit game...shits gonna suck). i mean, just look at what happened to skateboarding. my friends and i used to skate just because we were kids who enjoyed pushing ourselves to get to that next level, then tony hawk and the x-games blew that shit up and skateboarding was all you heard for about 2 years, so many wack ass companies and skaters popped up, just because it was what everyone was doing, they did not have a love for the game. graffiti is not something you can just jump into, its not just skill or being able to copy pieces, its a lifestyle, sacrificing going to those cool parties sometimes so you can wake up at 2:00 a.m and put your ass on the line all night. i think that seeing anything from tags to pieces online does not do it the justice it deserves, yeah, its nice to be able to log onto the internet at work and look at shit (or go on long tangents about what is making shit harder to deal with) from other cities and countries you would never be exposd to, but the only way to immerse yourself in the actual art of getting over is walking through the city and experiencing graff for what it is...i know in my city, there is a good amount of shit documented on this site, and others, but some of the hottest out dont even fuck with this shit, they dont care about what people they will never meet think about their shit, they care about doing what they love, and pushing themselves to go further and get to that next level

im not trying to push my views on anyone, i just think this is an interesting topic to discuss, especially since i dont get out of work for another 3 hours

well said

yeah i am not saying i know it all or nutthing but i think that graff is becoming a trend at least in my area like in was in the newstpapers about how "taggers"are becoming movr "severe" or whatever and what seems like the next day i see hella new handstiles that look all the same written hella places and shit.

but graffiti is getting more media coverage at the moment,not to mention the sudden boom in using it in advertising and clothing lines.....sad thing is that even with all of the media coverage people still dont see the truth behide it all,all they think of when its on the news or what ever is the stero-type troubled kid with nothing better to do....or worse a black male from a gang...either way they just dont want to understand the truth at all..maybe they fear they might like what we do??

I've said this many times before. With all the information technology we have today, there will no longer be any "underground cultures" anymore... No matter how hard you try to keep info. contained, there's always going to be some idiot who's gonna blow up spots via the internet. To me, the last decade w/ any sense of true underground cultures will always be the 90's...

This applies to everything and not just graffiti or hip hop. DJ's no longer find too much thrill in diggin because you can just log online and buy almost any record you want. Fashion has become corny... You can just go on ebay and buy any type of vintage lo or face item you want. It used to be through connects and actually meeting up. Everything from skating to street racing, clubs, raves, you name it is just blown up. Back in the day, people just had to go places and learn and explore on their own... Now, we just go online and become a part of some underground culture in Australia because we gain all the knowledge from their forums..

Its like graff writers want the public to accept graffiti and notice it, but then when it blows up, they are left all dazed and realize that it was better off when we just had it for ourselves... When graff is accepted by society, it changes the whole concept of it. So, do we really want that?

But with all this complaining, we just have to adapt to the times. Keep the same formula and just take it to another level...

I'm just another complainer.. so bring on the hate..

Also, I wanted to mention that no matter how much graff writers deny it, at some point they were in this for some sort of "fame." So, its that hunger for fame, that makes it very sketchy of when you're considered "selling out." If you're writing your name all over the city, you obviously want people to know who you are... I'm just rambling.. there should be some sort of psycho+logical study on the mind of a graff writer..