Then they came for the children

Then they came for the children

Aspen Times | May 3, 2005

They've vanished into the netherworld of a Homeland Security gulag and their story has already disappeared from the headlines, but the shocking case of two 16-year-old girls from New York City arrested a month ago ought to inspire outrage among every American worthy of the name. Since the government's reasons for the girls' imprisonment could apply to virtually any teenager, it should also spark fear.

Like many rebellious teens, I fought with my mother. Local police, called to my home during at least one particularly impressive clash of wills and voices, talked us back into the land of the calmly reasonable. Then they left.

Like many young people, I was fascinated by morbid, violent subjects. After I turned in an essay depicting a political assassination from the killer's viewpoint, my creative writing teacher sent me to talk to my guidance counselor. After I assured him that I had no desire to knock off any politicians, he returned me to class.

A quarter century later, my mom and I are best friends and I haven't done anything the Secret Service ought to worry about. Right now, however, two girls from New York City are rotting in a HomeSec prison in Pennsylvania for doing nothing more than I did - one for fighting with her parents and writing an essay, the other accused of being her friend.

In early March, the New York Times reported on April 7, one girl's parents "went to the local police station house" in the Queens Village neighborhood because "their daughter...had defied their authority." Things calmed down and the parents, believing their daughter had been scared straight, asked the NYPD to forget the whole thing.

It was too late for that.

Without a warrant, NYPD detectives and federal agents burst into the girl's home - no wonder they don't have time to look for Osama! - where they "searched her belongings and confiscated her computer and the essays that she had written as part of a home schooling program," say her family. "One essay concerned suicide...[that] asserted that suicide is against Islamic law." The family is Bangladeshi. They are Muslim. That, coupled with the mere mention of suicide bombing in her essay, was enough to put the fuzz on high alert.

Although she is conservative and devout, the girl and her parents vigorously deny that she is an Islamist extremist (not that such opinions are illegal), but this is post-9/11 America and post-9/11 America is out of its mind.

Based solely on an essay written by one of the two, the FBI says both girls are "an imminent threat to the security of the United States based upon evidence that they plan to become suicide bombers." But the feds admit that they have no evidence to back their suspicions. Nothing.

"There are doubts about these claims, and no evidence has been found that such a plot was in the works," one Bush Administration official admitted to the Times. "The arrests took place after authorities decided it would be better to lock up the girls than wait and see if they decided to become terrorists," another told the New York Post. The same logic could be used to justify locking up any Muslim, or anyone at all. Heck, maybe that's the idea.

The Bangladeshi girl, who was homeschooled and wears a veil, says she never even met her outgoing and more Americanized "co-conspirator" from Guinea before the cops accused them of plotting to do ... something. Maybe.

She says FBI agents threatened to deport her parents and place her American-born siblings, a 4-month-old baby and an 11-year-old, in foster care unless she confessed.

Even in PATRIOT Act-era America, alleged fantasies of martyrdom aren't a crime. So HomeSec's ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) is holding both two girls as illegal immigrants - one for entering the U.S. without an inspection, the other for overstaying her visa. And even that charge rests on razor-thin ice: "This is a girl who's been in this country since she was 2 years old," the Guinean girl's teacher says. Ditto for the one from Bangladesh. Holding kids accountable for the actions of their parents is crazy, which is why immigration authorities don't usually do it. Two-year-old babies don't wade across the Rio Grande or overstay their visas. Deporting American teenagers - American in every way that matters - to countries they've never even visited is equally insane.

I would be the first to applaud the FBI if they had arrested two proven would-be suicide bombers before they had the chance to strike. If they have evidence to that effect, they should make it public and bring charges in open court. But that's clearly not the case here.

When this story first broke I didn't write about it because I assumed that a public outcry would soon lead to its reasonable resolution. Sadly, this has not happened.

Homes searched without a warrant, kids thrown in prison for thoughts real and imagined, people's lives destroyed by an out-of-control federal government - will Americans speak up for what's right? Please call and write your congressman and senator to demand the release of the two girls from Queens.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/homela...or_children.htm

This is the first im hearing of this.

This is some fucked up shit, but unfortunately its happening more and more these days. I dont what ever happened to using common sense but i guess they dont teach that anymore.

I'm moving my familly to Canada. Fuck this shit!

fucking rediculous. can't say I'm surprised though. we're definitely in the land of thought crime now.

fuckin sick.

the terrorists have won.

kids arrested for everyfuckingthing under the sun.

Published on Saturday, April 9, 2005 by the New York Times

Teachers and Classmates Express Outrage at Arrest of Girl, 16, as a Terrorist Threat

by Nina Bernstein

"I just can't fathom this," said her art teacher, Kimberly Lane, who has repeatedly called the youth detention center but like Ms. Carr was not allowed to speak to the girl, who has no lawyer. Among the unanswered questions they raised was why, if she was really a suspect, no F.B.I. agent had shown up to search her school locker or question her classmates, who sent her letters of support.

"This is a girl who's been in this country since she was 2 years old," Ms. Lane said. "She's just a regular teenager - like, two weeks ago her biggest worry was whether she'd done her homework or studied for a science test."

http://www.itsallpolitics.com/outrage-over...eat-vt2962.html

there are DISTURBINGLY few news items on this.

people don't care as long as they have their cable tv and mcd's

land of the selfish, home of the vain.

its the old addage...what you can't see...can't hurt you.

#1 what the fuck would the NYPD be looking for osama?!

#2 do you have to kill somebody to be guilty

#3 2 granades went off in mid town Manhattan today. I live here! I am fucking glad that they are completely overreacting in situations like this. Two 16 year old girls are a small price to pay to stop a nother 9/11. I am not saying that is what was going to happen, but this is not a game 1 person is all it takes to walk into time square and kill a thousand. Thees are not rational people we are dealing with, which makes evoryone suspect, from 16 yearold girls to 100 year old men . Mid town at 5:50.... BOOM!! Because we didnt overreact for every little thing we have heard, and the reason you are hearing this is yes because this is probably a case of "some stupid kid being made an exampel of" but are you willing to take that chance with your familes lives?

You're a fucking idiot! Those girls had no ties to terrorizm they gonna rot their lives away for nothing! What if it was your sister or your girlfreind or your fucking daughter or YOU??? Then I'll bet your tune would change real fast! If you're so scared that you want to live in a fascist dictatorship where anybody can be thrown in the dungeon for blinking wrong then move to fucking Cuba you fuck! I fucking hate what scumbags with your mentality have done to this country. Next time someone tosses a grenade, do us all a favor and jump on it!!!

You're a complete fucking idiot!!!

There's something called the big picture. Step back and take a look at it.

You're talking to Mags156 right?

the dumbass above you SF. you're on point man.

Report: New York City Teens Help in Bomb Plot

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ASSOCIATED PRESS

NEW YORK (AP) -- Two 16-year-old girls from New York City have been arrested on immigration charges after federal authorities said they planned to become suicide bombers, according to a published report.

The teenagers were arrested March 24 and were being held in a detention center in Leesport, Pa., The New York Times reported Thursday, citing a government document provided by a federal agent.

According to the document, the FBI found that the girls posed ''an imminent threat to the security of the United States based upon evidence that they plan to be suicide bombers,'' the Times said.

The evidence was not described in the document.

Manny Van Pelt, a spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, would confirm only that two juveniles had been arrested on ''administrative immigration violations'' and remained in custody.

The girls - one from Bangladesh, one from Guinea - were living in the United States illegally, the Times reported.

Adam Carroll, a community activist with the Islamic Circle of North America, told the Times one of the girls had been arrested after she stopped attending public high school in September. Federal immigration agents investigated her home and discovered an essay about suicide and Islam on her computer, Carroll said.

The case seemed to be ''an investigation that's gotten out of hand, like a lot of other so-called terror investigations,'' Carroll told the newspaper.

-----------------------------------

it sounds fishy from this paper, too.

It does seem that the cops over-reacted in this particular case, but I think some of you guys are missing the point. In the world we live in today, post-9/11, or even post-Columbine, one does not make rash statements about violence. It's like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre or "Hi, Jack!" at the airport. If you wish to avoid the unpleasantness of detention and interrogation, best watch your behavior.

I guess I would add "writing disturbing essays about suicide bombing" to my list of "Things intelligent people avoid doing."

Now, of course, you have every right to espouse whatever opinions or statements you please, but that doesn't mean that there will be absolutely no negative consequences. You may not get convicted, because of the First Amendment. You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.

Originally posted by KaBar2@Jun 8 2005, 03:15 PM

It does seem that the cops over-reacted in this particular case, but I think some of you guys are missing the point. In the world we live in today, post-9/11, or even post-Columbine, one does not make rash statements about violence. It's like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre or "Hi, Jack!" at the airport. If you wish to avoid the unpleasantness of detention and interrogation, best watch your behavior.

 

I guess I would add "writing disturbing essays about suicide bombing" to my list of "Things intelligent people avoid doing."

 

Now, of course, you have every right to espouse whatever opinions or statements you please, but that doesn't mean that there will be absolutely no negative consequences. You may not get convicted, because of the First Amendment. You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.

Quoted post

yeah, but whats the use of having freedom of speech if, when you say the wrong things, you get fucked over anyway?

Dumy---

The First Amendment is not absolute, it has limitations. Of course, you can espouse whatever protected opinions you choose, but exhortations to violence or threats are not protected speech. Had these two girls limited themselves to espousing opinions ("America is the Great Satan! I hope all the American infidels and harlots suffer great remorse for their sinful behavior!") they would not have been arrested. It's when unpopular opinions ("The Communist Party is the hope of the working class!") trespass over onto prohibited speech ("I think blowing myself up as a martyr is a great idea, and I think every Islamic girl should do just that!") that the police arrive and arrest you.

There is a big difference between "All Jews are plotting to destroy the White race!" and "Let's go blow up every synagogue in New York, RIGHT NOW!" Both of these statements are odious, but the second one is illegal, because it advocates or exhorts people to commit immediate violence.

Advocating National Socialism is protected speech. Advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government and installation of the Fouth Reich is not.

actually..not quite yet..

"Free speech" with limitations is not free speech.

These were 16 year old girls that are gonna rot in prison for what exactly? I'd like to know what they saposedly said or were planning that warrents this SS, KGB style shit?

The fact that the pigs won't say, actually say's alot. I smell bullshit.

Apparently their freinds and teachers highly doubt that these kids would even think of becoming terrorists.

UPDATE

the cops fucked up again? no shit.

FBI releases NYC teen detained over bomb-plot-recruiting concerns

May 07, 2005

Associated Press

The FBI has released a 16-year-old girl and will allow another to leave the country after the teens were detained for six weeks amid concerns they were potential recruits for a suicide bomb plot that never materialized.

The girls were picked up separately by authorities on March 24 and sent to a detention center in Leesport, Pa.

Adama Bah, 16, a Guinean immigrant, returned to her high school on Friday to friends and teachers who insisted she was innocent. The other girl, who was not identified because she is a minor and was not charged with any crime, was granted a request allowing her to return to Bangladesh with her family.

Details of the case have remained sketchy and it has been marked by closed hearings, sealed government documents and gag orders for lawyers. But lawyers for both girls said the teens had no connection to any suicide bombing plots.

Bah's lawyer, Natasha Pierre, told The New York Times in Saturday's editions that her client "should never have been detained in the first place." She said the teens were not friends and it was unclear Bah was swept into the investigation.

Troy Mattes, the Bangladeshi girl's lawyer, said his client came to the United States at age 4. Her family's applications for political asylum were closed in the late 1990s, although there were no deportation orders against them, Mattes said.

When the general consul of Bangladesh asked why the girl was being detained, the homeland security officials wrote that the girl was being held only because she was in the country illegally. Her parents asked the government to let the family leave the country.

nice....six weeks later.

good to hear they're out.

definitely good to hear they are out..

The point is, they never would have been in in the first place if they had exercised a little common sense and control over what they said and to whom they said it.

Every country and every culture has prohibited speech. Don't get the idea that somehow or another the U.S. is being exceptionally cruel and uncaring. In general, we have a degree of freedom of speech that far exceeds that of other countries.

Want to get kicked out of school in France? Wear a head scarf to school.

Want to get arrested and held for interrogation in Germany? Try selling Mein Kampf on a street corner.

Turkey? Hold up a sign that says "Long live the Kurds" in Turkish.

Israel? Move into a neighborhood where you aren't welcome or are a different religion than the people already there.

Northern Ireland? Try flying an IRA flag.

Republic of Ireland? Hold up a sign that says "Free Birth Control For All Women."

Etc., etc.

^^^ So if every country had something that u cant say or do it makes it right for the government to do those things to those girls?

And what's with comparing our laws with other countries and saying that just cause some really fucked countries get away with this much shit, ours should be aloud to get away with at least half? What the fuck does that have to do with our Constitution and Bill of rights and the reason why our country even exists? And the people that have died over the past few hundreds of years to protect?

Just curious?

Uh, "really fucked countries?" Like say, France, or UK or Republic of Ireland? These countries have a great deal less Freedom of Speech than does the U.S. In UK, for instance, you can be arrested under the Official Secrets Act for simply talking about terrorist actions. Not advocating them, not planning them, just discussing them.

The First Amendment has generated tons and tons of literature about it. Read up on the Bill of Rights. (Especially the SECOND Amendment, which is the amendment that guarantees that the other nine will never be taken from the American people.)

is "Islamist" actually a word???

Actually, I'm not sure if "Islamist" is actually a word or not, but what I meant by it is someone who politicizes the fundamentalist religious beliefs of Islam. I think a rough equivalent would be "Christer."

i heard lou dobbs use the word before..."are enemies are islamists..." then he was slammed.

Why was he slammed? Clearly, our enemies are Islamists. They make a terroristic political-religious conspiracy using a major religion's outward trappings and very few of the actual teachings of Mohammad. Very similar to the Ku Klux Klan's hijacking of the Christian cross and using it as a symbol of racism, hatred and terror. I can't see any reason to give the Islamists a pass. We condemn the psuedo-Christianity of the Klan and the "Church of Jesus Christ, Christian." We condemn the intolerance and hatred of the "Christian Identity" movement. Why would we not condemn the Islamists? They are doing the EXACT SAME THING that the Klan does, except their victims are not of a different race. In fact, the white racists worldwide applaud the "insurgents" in Iraq, Afghanistan and other Middle Eastern countries, because these Islamists hate and despise Jews. Basically, the Islamists are fascists, just like Hitler's Nazis and Franco and Mussolini's fascists. They make common cause with haters and racists everywhere. I cannot see any reason to offer them anything but relentless opposition. They oppress and murder any woman who attempts to live a free and independent life. They destroy any school that educates girls. They subvert and terrorize legal, legitimate government. They murder police officers and Iraqi soldiers, as well as American soldiers.

They are CLEARLY the enemy of everything that America stands for. I can see no alternative but to either destroy them or incarcerate them for a long time. They will never be satisfied to simply live their life and let other people live their own. No one is trying to tell the Islamists that they must become modern, only that they may not oppress and murder other people who wish to live in the 21st century instead of the 16th century. If they wish to live an isolated life in the deserts of Iraq, herding goats and reading the Quran, more power to them. It's when they murder Iraqi women for daring to go without the veil, or murder police officers for daring to enforce the laws of Iraq, or murder American soldiers trying to patrol and keep the peace that I take exception. Basically, they are terrorists and murderers and oppressors. That's the bottom line.

kabar--i've always looked up to you. a lot of people on this board talk, you speak...

to the others: free speech is limited, and i am okay with that.

--say someone walks up to you and points a gun in your face and says, "i'm going to shoot you." are you just going to sit there, take it, get shot and die or maybe find out it was just expression later? no, you're probably going to do something about it.

this is an extreme, and fairly stupid example, but the point is there. if our nation is destroyed by these things [that we're putting teens in jail for theoretically planning] then all rights will be lost--

--do you propose we let all these things go, ignore possible threats due to free speech issues?

i don't agree w/ some things that are taking place, i do believe there is a middle ground. i'm rambling and not really making a point.........................