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The Gift Is Carried In the Genes

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by T E A S E R, Aug 20, 2003.

  1. T E A S E R

    T E A S E R Guest

    The other day i was thinking about people who become famous and their parents and how everything in their life plays out. Now take someone famous, anyone that you want. Now say that person's mother wasn't famous and neither was the father and yet the person you have in mind for one reason or another used his/her talent and became famous. (movie star, music artist, famous writer, Author, etc)

    Now say that this famous person had kids, would their genes have that same drive and passion that made them work so hard to become famous be passed down into the kids? Are their kids destine for stardom as well?

    If you think about it, what is in our genes that makes us become famous? or maybe not necassarily famous, but so driven to become something... because some of those child prodigies you know, from a very young age they have such talent or a willing to learn whatever it is that makes them special you know?

    do you think its good genes and parenting but then how the kid reacts to the enviorment around them or what?

    any thoughts?
  2. nick5542

    nick5542 Member

    Joined: Feb 3, 2002 Messages: 840 Likes Received: 1
    drive might be a genetic trait amongst dogs, so maybe us too?


    Much has been written recently about “drives” possessed by our protection dogs. We used to talk about only “prey” and “defense” drives in dogs. Other writers speak of “fight” drive also as a genetic trait. I am not an ethologist, and don’t pretend to know exactly what is going on in the psyche and DNA of a dog. I am a trainer. I know what I see. Through experimentation I know how to develop behaviors I can see consistently exhibited by certain types of stimulation. In my experience we can create the desire to fight through proper use of the instinct to chase prey and the instinct to defend (which includes defense of prey, defense of territory, and defense of the self) coupled with a high degree of self-confidence, which comes only with experience. (As a side note, I find it silly to talk about a young dog having a lot of fight drive. In any young dog you can extinguish his desire to fight with one foolish action, whereas with a confident and experienced dog you are much less likely to do so).

    To me, what trainers call fight drive, is rather a combination of characteristics that are present when we properly and with purpose, stimulate both prey and defensive instincts over time in a dog with a high capacity for self-confidence. In other words, a dog wants to fight if he knows he is going to win! He only knows he is going to win if he has done so many times in many different places and situations, with many different opponents - that is what experience is. The more successes under his belt, the less likely some bad experience will extinguish his desire to do it again. On the other side of the coin, if we make winning too easy, the dog gets a false sense of security. I have seen dogs work well on a particular field with a single helper, but the handler fails to give the dog wide-ranging experiences with other decoys and training fields. Suddenly, a stick hit from a stranger drives the dog off the bite. Is the dog necessarily weak? No. He has not been trained to properly build his self-confidence through experience. As the dog matures the level of the fight must escalate in intensity and duration, always ending with the result that the dog wins. The dog learns, the harder he is fought by the decoy, the harder he must fight back, because the dog learns through his experience that this is always the road to victory. This is not to say that each fight in succession must be longer and more intense than the last. The dog must not be tested to his limits each time out. I have seen some great decoys fight a dog to the edge of what he can handle, and then upon the very next attack the initial impact of the dog drives the decoy on his back to the ground. By design the decoy teaches that the dog can win right away, too. This is a simple principle of motivation. Hard fought battles followed by quick successes are variable reward, which builds desire and motivation.

    I cannot see “fight” drive as a separate drive for another reason. I don’t believe it can be present absent the drives of prey and defense. We have all seen dogs exhibit primarily prey drive, or primarily defensive instinct. Show me a dog with only fight drive. In my experience, dogs with very dominant prey instinct or very dominant defense instinct can be balanced to some degree. The highly defensive dog who learns over time to carry the sleeve and calm gains confidence. The “prey locked” dog can learn to bark more fiercely when threatened, and will, through experience, exhibit more characteristically defensive behaviors because it is successful when it exhibits them. But can we start with only “fight” drive without the drives that first stimulate the dog to fight?

    Today, many trainers are afraid of the defensive instinct. They fear training through it because in the beginning, when it is present, there exists the possibility of pushing the dog into avoidance. I recently read an article in a major sport publication that went so far as to say defense has no place in the training of a protection dog! Nonsense! We must teach the dog to be successful when it exhibits defensive behaviors, because it is defensive instinct that provides the violence and strength in the grip, and the serious tone of the bark, and indeed is a major component in the level of focus exhibited in the dog’s work (would you be more concerned with missing one meal, or with being physically harmed?). There is no question that overstressing the defensive instinct can ruin a dog in a hurry. Prey training is safer and easier, but is incomplete for the picture we want. In schutzhund, we see dogs that are primarily prey trained, and the handler later wonders why the dog “yips” in the hold and bark. We want the dog angry, not scared, but angry at the helper. They key is stimulating the defensive instinct and teaching the dog that showing aggression brings success. This is done is small steps. We also can stimulate the prey instinct without stimulating defense, at the same time. Work each side of the coin and then bring them together slowly.
  3. caL

    caL Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 7, 2003 Messages: 2,056 Likes Received: 0
    or maybe its cause their parents make em.
  4. MOOGLE?

    MOOGLE? 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: May 23, 2000 Messages: 11,493 Likes Received: 501
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhahaha heh heh hooooo heh

    sorry senior tease your signature reminds me of a friend of mine who was jewish then catholic and ended up being buddhist and then athiest and then wiccan....and now he calls himself spiritual.

    yea i do believe that.. almost everyone in my family cant live with eachother in the same city.. even though we get along great nobody hates anybody in my family.except my cousin in chicago..never liked him.... .
    the most members of my family that live in the same state are 9 and none are in the same city..

    and all of the memebers i have met that are close blood relation dont like tomatoes or avacados
  5. T E A S E R

    T E A S E R Guest

    haha, thats really funny... the sig's somewhat of a joke, but im sure you knew that. :lol:

    CRAMPS Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 6, 2003 Messages: 1,600 Likes Received: 0
    wut up teaser....glad to have you back brah.

    and the answer is NO....kids get lazzy and good for nothing all the time.

    it matters on the kid itself.

    my two cents:king:
  7. Dirty_habiT

    Dirty_habiT Administrator

    Joined: Mar 8, 2001 Messages: 18,128 Likes Received: 76
    who are you? Teaser, who the fuck is that? Are you somebody?
  8. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
    what kind of genes make a 22 year old wigger, that lives with his parents, that dosen't have a job ?
  9. bufme1

    bufme1 Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 21, 2001 Messages: 2,340 Likes Received: 2
    thats called the lucky sperm club.........im not in it.

    ......but my dick gots a knee.:)
  10. JUDONO?

    JUDONO? Senior Member

    Joined: Jan 5, 2002 Messages: 1,935 Likes Received: 0
    fuck famous little bitches................
    I'll stay ghetto till I die, yeah right I would sell my soul to the devil to be getting paid to act or do some stupid shit like that.
  11. caL

    caL Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 7, 2003 Messages: 2,056 Likes Received: 0
    for real i would sell out so fast
    time to get paid
  12. Dr. Dazzle

    Dr. Dazzle Veteran Member

    Joined: Nov 19, 2001 Messages: 8,147 Likes Received: 3
    Same old tease......same old crappy threads.
  13. MOOGLE?

    MOOGLE? 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: May 23, 2000 Messages: 11,493 Likes Received: 501
    come on take it to the haters thread...
  14. Vlad

    Vlad Senior Member

    Joined: Jan 9, 2002 Messages: 1,876 Likes Received: 0
    welcome backola
  15. Dirty_habiT

    Dirty_habiT Administrator

    Joined: Mar 8, 2001 Messages: 18,128 Likes Received: 76
    You sir, are a fucking Moron.