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The best reasons to believe that there is a God

Discussion in 'News' started by nsmbfan, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. Soup forgot his password

    Soup forgot his password Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2011 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 54
  2. nsmbfan

    nsmbfan Elite Member

    Joined: Aug 8, 2007 Messages: 3,599 Likes Received: 382
    what you're saying is that because of our inability to comprehend the totality of everything-ness.... there is indeed a god?

    is it just 1?

    is it like a group of gods that came down to earth and spread their stories to different ends of the earth to compete for piety?

    do they play poker together?


    is God just a way for Christians to hide the truth in plain sight?

    is my Dog really the creator?

    is the Dogs playing poker painting a symbolic reference to our creators?

    is this thread still alive? (fuck sake i guess 12oz being top of the google list when someone questions "God" is a good thing, but now my name is attached to this whole debate for all kinds of randoms to pop in and chime in)

    cool?
     
  3. crime stoppers

    crime stoppers Senior Member

    Joined: Mar 31, 2007 Messages: 1,915 Likes Received: 180
    take shrooms, oneness is the closest thing to spirituality ive had.
     
  4. 423894

    423894 Member

    Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Messages: 416 Likes Received: 29
    I didn't say that there was indeed a God, as this is posted in the reasons to believe there is a God thread.

    I'm saying that depending on how you view the correlation between human intelligence and religious beliefs you might hold the idea that there will always be something we cannot understand. This might be your view of a higher being or a "creator".

    A singular God is also a personal and subjective view about it. For instance if you happen to think God is in everything and everywhere you personify that as a single person, some people dont.

    As for hiding the truth, I definitely think people hide behind their beliefs and use it as an excuse, hence why organized religion is one of the most deadly things happening today. Religion is used as a crutch instead of a step.

    If your dog is the creator that's fine too.
     
  5. McLovin

    McLovin Senior Member

    Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Messages: 1,963 Likes Received: 79
    thought this was pretty cool


    "Let me explain the problem science has with religion."

    The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

    'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

    'Yes sir,' the student says.

    'So you believe in God?'


    'Absolutely '

    'Is God good?'

    'Sure! God's good.'

    'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

    'Yes'

    'Are you good or evil?'

    'The Bible says I'm evil.'

    The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

    'Yes sir, I would.'

    'So you're good...!'

    'I wouldn't say that.'

    'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

    The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'

    The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

    'Er..yes,' the student says.

    'Is Satan good?'


    The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

    'Then where does Satan come from?'

    The student falters. 'From God'

    'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

    'Yes, sir.'

    'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

    'Yes'

    'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

    Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

    The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

    'So who created them?'

    The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

    The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do..'

    The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

    'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

    'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'


    'No, sir, I have not.'

    'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

    'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

    'Yet you still believe in him?'

    'Yes'

    'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'

    'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'

    'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

    The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

    'Yes.

    'And is there such a thing as cold?'

    'Yes, son, there's cold too.'


    'No sir, there isn't.'

    The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

    Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

    'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'


    'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

    'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

    The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

    'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

    The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

    'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains... 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

    'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

    'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

    The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

    'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

    The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

    Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

    'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

    To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

    The professor sat down.

    If you read it all the way through and had a smile on your face when you finished, mail to your friends and family with the title 'God vs. Science'

    PS: The student was Albert Einstein.

    Albert Einstein wrote a book titled 'God vs. Science' in 1921...
     
  6. Soup forgot his password

    Soup forgot his password Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2011 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 54
    That's all great except that Albert Einstine didnt believe in jesus christ, and thought anyone who believed in a "personal god" was an idiot, so that story never happened nor would it. Its so fucking stupid to actually believe Einstein would take a fucking shot in the dark and believe in jesus, and argue "night is darkness but you believe in it."

    What do christians think about the similarities of jesus to greek mythology?
    Why do christians think jesus was killed by jews when it was romans, and even in the bible i read it was romans.
    What do christians think about places like mesopotamia, where anybody who claimed they could talk to.
    What do christians think about the bible which was written hundreds of years after the son of christ, and then rewritten hundreds of years later.


    What do christians think of socrates, who first thought semen was purified menstral blood, which is why we refer to heritage as "blood lines" thousands of years before genetics was discovered.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion

    The point is, there is no god. You're not actually supposed to believe in god. God was a way of explaining a system of cultural values and providing power to preists who claimed that they could commune with gods and stop floods and uprisings from happening. Actually learning about the history of all religions, understanding why some religions failed, other succeeded, others swept new cultures and regions, others assimilated and absorbed smaller religions, others lead to genocide of a certain people, others lead city states to fail. Every religion that's currently around, in the scheme of things, hasn't been around for that long. They are all based on ancient religions.

    If you're going to be a man of god, be a man of all gods and a man of the world. Don't be one of the millions who live in the "south" (every country has a "south" ironically) and think your religion is special for some reason. You'd be surprised what texas gun wielding christians have in common with Indian sword-wielding Sikh. All the stories in the bible, quran, and torah originated from stories in older religions and places that were around tens of thousands of years ago. Know your shit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  7. McLovin

    McLovin Senior Member

    Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Messages: 1,963 Likes Received: 79
    religion is a good thing. it keeps people straight that cant keep straight themselves. People need god, the world needs religion. it is a necessary evil. Though it has been known to influence peoples minds in good ways and bad ways so i guess it can go either way.. im pretty sure Jews at that time influeced cesar to kill jesus and i believe the vote was unanimous. The act its self was romans though i doubt rome gave a shit about jesus. If you can think of a better way to keep people in line without a religion of some kind be my guess. sorry i have had a few drinks tonight so im not sure if any of this sounds good ;D
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  8. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,095 Likes Received: 969
    be my guess.

    it sounds terrible, as most of your posts do. stop.
     
  9. Soup forgot his password

    Soup forgot his password Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2011 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 54
  10. Soup forgot his password

    Soup forgot his password Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2011 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 54
    Its funny because I just finished saying "religion" is older and more diverse than anyone really understands and the current religions of the world, christianity, islam, and judiasm are just the new kids on the block. Religion, preists, and temples outdate palaces and governments by thousands of years and in fact was the first institution to create and enforce laws. Some laws like "Don't kill other people" are good but other laws like, "Dont play music because the gods hate that racket and will kill everybody with a giant flood." arent as great. BOTH of those laws existed in Mesopotamia five thousand years ago, which has some of the oldest written laws to be found by archaeologists.

    And ever since Mesopotamia there was an institution fighting for control against the temple called the palace. That battle, preists vs princes, gods vs men, is a five thousand year old debate that will probably never end. In Mesopotamia, you saw princes having sex with the high priestesses to become both.

    In rome you saw the same power struggle between christianity and the state. THe thing about "jews telling caesar to kill jesus" doesnt make sense for a couple reasons: 1. Caesar was alive 100 years before jesus was supposedly alive, but you could just mean another caesar/emperor after. 2. And more importantly, THERE WERE NO JEWISH ROMANS. There were jewish states being conquered by Emperor Nero around the same time that christians were being persecuted, but that's about it. Romans believed in greek mythology and hated other religions because, like I said, they threatened the power of the Roman state, hence why jesus, christians, jews, and many other barbarians were commonly crucified. if you don't like that idea, the other idea is that christians, like many religious groups throughout society, were scapegoats for the state. A fire broke out in rome and Emperor Nero blamed the christians for it, which started a hundred-year sporadic killing spree starting about 65 AD. They were made a target because Christians diametrically opposed the power of the Roman Emperor, refusing to make sacrifices to appease roman emperors and the roman gods and therefore they brought disaster by the gods to rome. The roman ruler was supposed to be omnipotent and viewed as a god himself. Christians believed in only one god, and he wasn't the emperor of rome.

    Today the concepts of law and order and civility are not unique to religion, and the alternative, different forms of government including democracy, are far more stable, less insane alternatives to appeasing the priests and made-up gods.


    If this is tldr, heres the summary: EVERY SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IN HISTORY THAT MAKES UP LAWS BASED ON THE UNPREDICTABLE MOOD/WRATH OF GODS HAS LEAD TO A LOT OF FUCKED UP BULLSHIT. THE LAW OF MAN > THE LAW OF GOD, EVERY TIME.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  11. Carl Sagan

    Carl Sagan New Jack

    Joined: Oct 28, 2011 Messages: 50 Likes Received: 6
    how about, humanity is conditioned by the veil of conceptual thought.
    all of our lives there is an authoritative figure of some kind. inferior and superior, sociological roles. we strive to be more 'whole' because, in our current state, we feel inadequate. therefore we create this supreme being over all, the final plateau.

    then we have these satori's when that veil is, for a moment, no longer present. that moment gets stored up in memory and we create this monument of it, at that point seperating it from our 'selves'. we desire to acheive that moment again and try to become friends with it, or worship it. we feel passionite about it and our emotions take hold.

    the christ spirit, the buddah nature is always present, people just take words for substance and create symbols of it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2012
  12. Soup forgot his password

    Soup forgot his password Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2011 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 54
    Enh. I have no idea what a veil of conceptual thought is. Basically you have to understand that religions have been around for 35-50,000 years and aristotilian logic, the basis for all logical rational thought, has been around since like 300 bc, and it wasnt until some smart guy in Persia realized Aristotle from ancient greece was onto something that it became popular. Before then, EVERYTHING was attributed to gods. If you stubbed your toe in ancient Mesopotamia, it was because god's mad at you for doing something you weren't supposed to. It wasnt because you werent looking where you were walking. If the euphrates river flooded and wiped out everyone's crops (like it always did... stupid Moses) and there was some shitty band playing music the night before the storm, everyone figured that god must've hated the music. Life in a civilization lead by religion (or a government with an emperor who claimed to be a son of god, or a constitution based on god's will) is just fear, panic, chaos, and preists controlling what people thought.

    Even in ancient rome they thought the gods controlled you. If your neighbor raped your kid, that was the god's will, so if there was any investigation it would be into why the gods wanted that to happen—What you did to deserve that.

    Aristotilian logic, the scientific method, rational thinking, psychology, RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR LIFE all are very, very modern ideas.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  13. McLovin

    McLovin Senior Member

    Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Messages: 1,963 Likes Received: 79
    off topic sorta- are you still living with that indian guy, is he still trying to convert you?
     
  14. Soup forgot his password

    Soup forgot his password Member

    Joined: Jun 9, 2011 Messages: 738 Likes Received: 54
    He's realizing all it takes for americans to be cool with you is to stick to talking about chicks, stupid youtube videos, and how all americans are retards. Plus he's from this hindu sect called Sikhism (prononounced sick-ism), which makes me laugh because traditionally they all have turbans, beards, and by law (for religious reasons) Sickhs are allowed to carry swords.... so in a way they're like the religious gun nuts in the south who carry guns JUST because it's legal and it's their god-given right. I joke that he's from India, but he was born American.

    Plus I get to say wildly racist/retarded shit. He rode his bicycle into a bush and nearly crashed so I yelled at 'em "That's what you get for 9-11!" Which is funny, because at first he was embarassed for running into a bush, and now he had a bunch of random white passerbys shooting looks at him like he's a terrorist... even though he's the most indian looking indian you can imagine. Which REALLY brings me to the best answer to the title of this thread: Being white and ignorant is fucking awesome.

    THE BEST REASON TO BELIEVE IN GOD: If you lived in the bible belt, and you were white, why WOULDN'T you believe in jesus christ?! WHY DENY YOURSELF THE FUCKING HONOR AND PRIVILEGE OF BEING A WHITE, LOVED BY ALL, EMPLOYABLE BY ALL, GOD FEARING CITIZEN OF THE FREE WORLD? YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO READ OR LEARN ANOTHER FUCKING THING AS LONG AS YOU LIVE.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  15. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,095 Likes Received: 969
    amen.
    white power.
     
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