Teachers can all die.

A student named Jay (who wants his last name to be withheld) at Brick Township High School in New Jersey, had his chair pulled out from under him after he refused to stand for the national anthem.

A student named Jay (who wants his last name to be withheld) at Brick Township High School in New Jersey, had his chair pulled out from under him after he refused to stand for the national anthem. The class started out that morning with the teacher Stuart Mantel yelling "I don't want to hear a sound! Not a sound! Morning exercises will come on, you will stand, you will stand quietly, you will pay attention! Any Questions!?...Now stand up and keep your mouths shut!" Students stood up as the national anthem began playing.

In the middle of the anthem, Mantel walked over to Jay and demanded that he stand up. Jay silently refused, and Mantel yelled again, "Stand up!". Jay then said "I don't have to stand up". To which Mantel insisted "You have to stand." Jay said "No I don't". Mantel then reached over and pulled Jay's chair out from under him. Jay responded to Mantel's outrageous behavior by asking him "Are you serious?", to which he yelled "I am damn well serious."

Jay said that he didn't have any political reasons for his refusal to stand but that he wanted to sit because he feels it is his right to do so and that right was being threatened by Mantel. Jay said that he thought Mantel might tell him to stand, but he never expected to be physically forced to do so.

Jay's friend who was in the class at the time, Corey, says that their teacher had been strict in the past in demanding that students stand for the national anthem and pledge of allegiance. That's why they brought in a camera - to expose the teacher in case he did anything again. "The teacher and school principals wanted him (Mantel) to press charges against us...they tried to blame it on us like it was premeditated, like we did it just to get him on tape, which is false. We knew he was gonna go nuts because he frequently used to" said Corey.

Jay's other classmate Steve got suspended for 10 days for filming the incident. The school told Corey that it "violated the teacher's constitutional rights" for them to film the teacher without his permission. "I think that its crazy that people are getting in trouble for this or things they say. There have been so many kids video taping and no one ever got in trouble for it. So why now?" Jay asked. It sounds as if the school is punishing this student now because of the nature of what's on the tape, not the fact they were taping the teacher without his permission.

When I asked Corey if Mantel was being punished for pulling out Jay's chair, he said "Nope...I asked (the principal) 'What are you doing to discipline Mantel?' and they said 'we talked'. Teachers do anything they want". Seeing acts like Mantel's go unpunished will likely inspire teachers to continue intimidating their students into standing for the national anthem and pledge of allegiance.

If you would like to let Brick Schools know how you feel about their handling of this situation, you may contact them here:

Brick Township Public Schools

Board of Education

101 Hendrickson Ave

Brick, NJ 08723

732-785-3000

Brick Township High School

346 Chambers Bridge Road

Brick, NJ 08723

(732)262-2500

Videotaping the teacher harrass their student for not wanting to stand up for the pledge of allegiance is a vilolation of the TEACHERS constitutional rights?

Teacher's an asshole, kid's a dick.

the assholes leading the dicks. [no homo]

If the kid is in his rights not to stand,

then the teacher is also in his rights to pull the chair.

The 'right' to ignore manners and be a prick is NOT

what your founding fathers had in mind when they

wrote the constitution.

Originally posted by <KEY3>@Feb 21 2005, 07:22 PM

the assholes leading the dicks. [no homo]

 

If the kid is in his rights not to stand,

then the teacher is also in his rights to pull the chair.

The 'right' to ignore manners and be a prick is NOT

what your founding fathers had in mind when they

wrote the constitution.

Quoted post

the kid refusing to stand was not an attack or sign of animosity against any of the other people in the classroom. it is not the teacher's place to choose the students' on politics or patritiotism. i would say pulling a chair from under someone who is sitting is more than rude. what else do you think the teacher had the right to do? punch him in the face? teachers are held to a higher standard of behavior than their students. (i thought.) if the teacher had pulled that stunt out in the public, like in a sports stadium, it probably would not have gone over.

The kid wasn't violating anyone's personal space by not standing. But when this dick head teacher pulls a chair out from him, that's pretty much violating his "space". I mean shit, isn't it kind of dangerous to take something out from under someone while they're sitting on it? That kid should show up at that teachers home with a baseball bat.

The kid got what he deserved!

why are you hating on all teachers?

maybe it's just my inner old man....

I'd LOVE to see that kid refuse to stand in front of a bunch

of veterans who would then kick his ass and tell him to

'love it or leave it you damn commie'. I picture abe simpson

and his buddy jasper beating the kid with walking sticks.

Originally posted by El Mamerro@Feb 21 2005, 09:05 PM

Teacher's an asshole, kid's a dick.

Quoted post

Teacher's got the power, so it's cool to be a dick.

Then it's also cool to be assholes towards dicks then. Assholes with power.

Don't get me wrong, I think the teacher's a complete fuckwad and should be fired, but that kid is a fucking prick for doing things for the sake of being an undisciplined punk (notice he gave no reasons as to why he did what he did). I have absolutely zero respect for little shits who think they are above everyone else and "excercise their rights" in order to irritate others.

Do you *have* to stand for these little prayer-substitutes?

If the kid didn't want to stand for the pledge, Fuck him. Teacher could of asked the student to leave his classroom, for being disruptive or feeling the this child was disrespecting his patritiotism. (thats what this is about right) But for the teacher to pull the chair out from under him is assault. Assault on a minor the way I see it. The teacher crossed the line,

How I see it..If this teacher was positive mentor , there would of never been any thoughts to bring a camera into the classroom, to film his disorderly conduct, reguardless. IF that was my boy, teacher would of been swallowing his car keys afterwork

Originally posted by bodice_ripper@Feb 22 2005, 02:56 PM

Do you *have* to stand for these little prayer-substitutes?

Quoted post

when i was in school noone made anything of the kids who didn't stand

If that was my kid, I'd give a flogging he'd remember for a long, long time. And I'd probably let the teacher if I wasn't around to do it.

Fuck that, if he didnt want to stand he should have just shown up late or not at all, thats the american way.

wow so much ignorance here. its totally legal not to stand up if you dont want to. there is case law behind this. and pulling a chair from underneath someone can cause injury. its bad someone got suspended for filming an abusive teacher. how else can someone expose abuse like this? just because this guy is a public school teacher does not give him authority to abuse people.

what ever happened to a democracy and freedom of speech?

Originally posted by Weapon X@Feb 22 2005, 08:16 PM

If that was my kid, I'd give a flogging he'd remember for a long, long time. And I'd probably let the teacher if I wasn't around to do it.

Quoted post

why would you physically abuse your child? would you like to be physically abused?

Originally posted by ARCEL@Feb 22 2005, 07:55 PM

when i was in school noone made anything of the kids who didn't stand

Quoted post

Yeah that's what I thought.

the teacher shouldve been fired for doing shit like that. its bad enough that were raised for working for rich white corporate bastards. fuck school..its all bullshit. history is all lies and same with this patriotism. why do people wanna support a country that has murdered so many and keeps its citizens living in fear? that kid shouldve been allowed to sit if he didnt feel like participating in that bullshit.

Originally posted by emergin_graffer@Feb 22 2005, 10:37 PM

the teacher shouldve been fired for doing shit like that. its bad enough that were raised for working for rich white corporate bastards. fuck school..its all bullshit. history is all lies and same with this patriotism. why do people wanna support a country that has murdered so many and keeps its citizens living in fear? that kid shouldve been allowed to sit if he didnt feel like participating in that bullshit.

Quoted post

I'm still in high school and have stood up for the pledge twice (first day of freshman year, september 11, 2002 at 8:46). I got shit about it once or twice, but everything was cool after I explained that Quakers don't swear on the bible or salute the flag.

wait..... nekro is a quaker?

man, fuck teachers....they think they own everything and can boss people around and shit but when they go home their nobody once again

the kid didnt wanna stand, why the fuck does the teacher give a fuck...whats the big deal, the teacher just wants to have authority and control over people while they are at school so they can feel good about themselves....okay the kid had no reason, but he doesnt need a reason...its his right as a US citizen....he shouldnt be forced to do shit

Originally posted by <KEY3>@Feb 21 2005, 06:22 PM

If the kid is in his rights not to stand,

then the teacher is also in his rights to pull the chair.

The 'right' to ignore manners and be a prick is NOT

what your founding fathers had in mind when they

wrote the constitution.

Quoted post

blahblahblahblah. you people and your righteousness, trying to invoke the LAW. you want to invoke law, ok then lets speak in pure legality of the situation.

teachers are bound by rules, students are bound by rules. fuck what you know about constitutional rights, because the constitution makes everyone equal, so they are both on equal terms.

BUT BACK TO THE RULES PUT ON STAFF AND STUDENTS BY THE SCHOOL

For the teacher to be put on the right side of the law there must be

some form of explicit law that STATES that the student must stand for the pledge of allegiance

this would be found in

-a Schools Code of Conduct

the student is obligated to obey the code of conduct (rules,whatever) if he explicitly or tacitly consents.

-the teachers own material on classroom rules or laws

the student is obligated to obey the rules if he explicitly or tacitly consents

IF YA DONT KNOW

explicit consent is like saying I WILL FOLLOW or signing your name

tacit consent is like being in the presence of whatever, its passive. you know the rules of the school and you still come to school every day, as an example

NOW

you might think by being in the room, the student is tacitly consenting to the teachers rules

BUT

-if one clearly and publicly dissents, he is NOT tacitly consenting to the rules.

by sitting down, and refusing to do the pledge, the student is NOT CONSENTING TO THE RULES OF THE CLASSROOM.

and no schools write anything in their code of conduct about standing for the pledge, and no teacher would either, so its pretty safe to say that the kid didnt explicitly consent to the pledge.

SO

the kid had every fucking right to do what he did.

and not only that, but the teacher is clearly violating the students own rights, and this would be so terribly easy to prove, shit you got video of a teacher acting like a temper tantrum throwing 4 year old. or at least thats how id paint him. id have his paychecks coming to me for years if i was in charge of the case.

and the fact that the law would stand with the kid on this is a testament to the vitality of the constitution. if the law backed the teacher, then everyone with any authority could take advantage of anyone below them. the law should protect those that need its protection, it SHOULD be a defense shield for the small man.

by the way, background note.

if your school did the pledge of allegiance all together, lead by somebody over the intercom/PA system, that was my job. i lead the pledge of allegiance for 5,000 students and staff everyday for a year, so dont come at me with COMMIE LIBERAL PINKO shit. yeah the kid might be a dick, i knew tons of kids like him in high school, and they were all dicks. but if the teacher is going to physical lengths to force conformity, then thats not right. and im sure we are getting an extremely biased version of what happened here, but IF the situation that we are given was the real situation, well, then you already know how i feel about it.

i still think your dope though zesto

Originally posted by metallix+Feb 22 2005, 09:18 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (metallix - Feb 22 2005, 09:18 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Weapon X@Feb 22 2005, 08:16 PM

If that was my kid, I'd give a flogging he'd remember for a long, long time.  And I'd probably let the teacher if I wasn't around to do it.

Quoted post

why would you physically abuse your child? would you like to be physically abused?

[/b]

Why would I physically abuse my child? Man, I can't answer that. Well, I can answer by assuming that you are what is wrong with socitety these days. Hardcore, extreme, directionless Liberalism. You are doing the Devil's handywork by coddling your child when he refuses to respect his nation - the nation that allows him to live the way he does - or his teacher.

None of what has been said so far makes the kid any less of a dick.

Listen, nobody's arguing that the teacher doesn't deserve to get booted, or hopefully even sued, but it amazes me just how many of you are ready to defend (and even encourage) the kid's actions as perfectly reasonable and OK.

The issue is not whether he had or didn't have to stand up, it's whether he chose to do it or not. Yes, of course it's in his legal right to refuse to stand, and no, he doesn't have to give a reason. But there's this itty bitty thing called respect and courtesy for the beliefs and opinions of your peers that gets immediately thrown out the window the minute you decide to adopt a confrontational and alienating behavior, which gets even worse when you refuse to explain or open some line of dialogue that can help others understand and respect why you did what you did.

I know many of use think the way we do (liberally) because we envision a more tolerant society, where people are free to say what they believe in, and where diversity of opinion and culture will lead to a rich, accepting, unified society. The first step in achieving this is for us to respect (respect ≠ believing in) the traditions of our culture, even if we don't passionately believe in them, because respecting these traditions means respecting the people around you. When I stand for the pledge, I don't do it to salute my country, or to state with joyful glee that we are a nation under God... I don't even put my hand on my chest. But I stand, I stand because I acknowledge how strongly some people feel about this and I want to express that acknowledgement of their beliefs. I would like to expect them to do the same when it comes to my beliefs, but their reciprocation is not a factor on whether I choose to acknowledge theirs; I'll still hold up on my part, and I will die with a clear conscience because of it.

Freedom of speech is at its core a unifying ideal, but it can be easily used as a divisive principle depending on the attitude we adopt and the decisions we make when exercising it. When this kid acted the way he did, the end result was divisive and confrontational, and led to a downward spiral that instead of sparking meaningful dialogue, brought hostility and bickering that set both sides even further apart. He achieved the exact opposite of what freedom of speech hopes to attain for us.

Do your part, man. When you use your freedom of speech, think about the very reason it exists.

^exactly! Use don't abuse.

If people use freedom of speech to be obnoxious and insulting it only gives more merit to getting rid of it.

I'm sure most people here are younger than me so you might not remember corporal punishment. I'd get popped at school and have black and blue marks from it.

When I was growing up, you got whipped for doing something wrong.

EVERYONE got whipped for doing something wrong!!!

That taught you that there was painful consequences for your actions.

It wasn't abuse, and you where weary of doing the same thing twice.

Now a days you get Time Out.

Time out is good for little bitty children, but once your old enough to know better, you need to be punished a little more severely.

A lot of kids I've seen these days are real smart asses because their parents or teachers never got to humble them with a good ass whipping.

What the world needs more of is less guns and more old school ass whippings!

School is just lies and bullshit to get you ready for the corporate world. I have yet to use anything I learned when I was in school. I didn't learn anything related to the career I want, and I was told that Colombus came over and gave the indians food and had a feast with them and then they just "gave" their land to white people. It's all bullshit. I've been on "lockdown" in a school before while police came in the search for drugs in someones locker. Does that sound like a school or a prison?