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State Court Says Pledge of Allegiance Is Unconstitutional

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by mental invalid, Jun 26, 2002.

  1. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8

    State Court Says Pledge of Allegiance Is Unconstitutional

    Filed at 3:24 p.m. ET

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- For the first time ever, a federal appeals court Wednesday declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional because of the words ``under God'' added by Congress in 1954.

    The ruling, if allowed to stand, means schoolchildren can no longer recite the pledge, at least in the nine Western states covered by the court.

    In a 2-1 decision, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the phrase amounts to a government endorsement of religion in violation of the Constitution's Establishment Clause, which requires a separation of church and state.

    ``A profession that we are a nation `under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation `under Jesus,' a nation `under Vishnu,' a nation `under Zeus,' or a nation `under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion,'' Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel.

    The government had argued that the religious content of ``one nation under God'' is minimal.

    But the appeals court said that an atheist or a holder of certain non-Judeo-Christian beliefs could see it as an endorsement of monotheism.

    ``We are certainly considering seeking further review in the matter,'' Justice Department lawyer Robert Loeb said.

    The 9th Circuit covers Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington state. Those are the only states directly affected by the ruling.

    However, the ruling does not take effect for several months, to allow further appeals. The government can ask the court to reconsider, or take its case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

    The case was brought by Michael A. Newdow, a Sacramento atheist who objected because his second-grade daughter was required to recite the pledge at the Elk Grove school district. A federal judge had dismissed his lawsuit.

    ``I'm an American citizen. I don't like my rights infringed upon by my government,'' he said in an interview. Newdow called the pledge a ``religious idea that certain people don't agree with.''

    The appeals court said that when President Eisenhower signed the legislation inserting ``under God'' after the words ``one nation,'' he wrote that ``millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty.''

    The court noted that the U.S. Supreme Court has said students cannot hold religious invocations at graduations and cannot be compelled to recite the pledge. But when the pledge is recited in a classroom, a student who objects is confronted with an ``unacceptable choice between participating and protesting,'' the appeals court said.

    ``Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge,'' the court said.
  2. -Rage-

    -Rage- 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Apr 12, 2001 Messages: 10,006 Likes Received: 28
    I pledge to no one and nothing.
  3. i am not adament that it not be in schools... i mean i dont think its a direct endorsement of religion or a specific religon, but then again, i cant believe that they would change it to say godS, implying there is more then one god or emcompassing many religons
    i think that it should be optional
    if the kid wants to stand and recite, let them, if not, thats fine too
    although i am openminded to all arguments, and i should be home in bed sick, so if this doesnt make sence, oh well
  4. Are2

    Are2 Guest

    i am not part of a nation that is "under" anything, including god...
  5. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Guest


    that's what I think about ritual chanting being forced on Children.
    Kids have those things memorized before they can even hope to understand
    what it actually means. I still have the Lords Prayer in French stuck in my head.

    people needs to some over-analysing every single word. sheesh !
  6. bow wow wow yippie yo yippie yay
    suck on deez nutz nigga
    suck on deez nutz

    eazy e is fresh.
  7. im not witty

    im not witty Guest

    "do you remember the first thing you had to memorize?
    was it the pledge of allegience? a five year old stands for a flag
    that killed off all the real americans?"

    "broken star" by the the broadways
  8. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    fair enuff with that quote, but is this a good thing or a bad thing?

    is god bad?

    is god good?

    should parents simply allow their children to meditate or sit quietly?

    when we begin to strip god out, are we enhancing the individual or are we robbing them of spirituality?

    why do we still have "in god we trust" on the back of federal currency?
  9. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
  10. boogie hands

    boogie hands 12oz Legend

    Joined: Feb 15, 2001 Messages: 16,059 Likes Received: 13
    its optional in school...i think thats enough. im a very firm believer in seperation of church and state and even i think the ruling is a bit overboard. god is a pretty broad term now a days, i honestly think if you consider the pledge of allegance prayer due to the inclusion of the word god your either an athiest looking for a lawsuit or a complete religious nut....either way your a moron and need to find something better to do with your time.

    like i said, its optional and thats enough...eventually (unless your raising a complete idiot for a child) children will decide for themselves what the pledge of allegance is and means, and decide wether to continue reciting it. until then its a fairly harmless traditon at the most.....

    regardless it wont be upheld by the supreme court.....

    im more angry my tax money is going towards such frivilous, PC bullshit....get a fucking job for christ sake
  11. buttercup

    buttercup New Jack

    Joined: Feb 19, 2002 Messages: 0 Likes Received: 0
    It's about time. Granted it's daft that tax dollars are going to argue it - it should never have been there in the first place.

    It's nice to know SOMEONE is still trying to think through this fog of pseudo-patriotism/xenophobia. I'd get a book out on the subject....but..you know.................
  12. Mr. Mang

    Mr. Mang Elite Member

    Joined: Feb 27, 2002 Messages: 2,901 Likes Received: 1
  13. yoink

    yoink Elite Member

    Joined: May 27, 2002 Messages: 3,428 Likes Received: 0
    i dont even remember the pledge of allegiance..there jsut words...its not like you have to like em or believe em...but yeah i agree with zesto they need to stop dissecting every damn word..its maddening
  14. T.T Boy

    T.T Boy Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 18, 2001 Messages: 21,803 Likes Received: 41
    i cant believe you guys have to say that shit.

    so many amenendments pledges songs and all that jazz. just sing an anthem and your set.
  15. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    ok well all i have to say is amen to boogie hands....boogie hands in 2004!!

    so i guess the senate yesterday voted overwhelming to pass a resolution denouncing the verdict

    the house of reps went on the steps to pledge the allegiance

    bush has the justice dept. looking for ways to overturn the verdict

    and now lawmakers want to make the pledge an ammendment to the constitution

    splendid!! just what the lawmakers needed another stupid distraction to get media headlines...

    by the way i always thought that the "under god part" was part of the original, turns out, this is not the case....actually is voted in by congress under FDR...so all the aethiest was saying was that he wanted the original to be spoken, he did not want to completely ban it....