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Stanley "Tookie" Williams

Discussion in 'News' started by Milton, Nov 20, 2005.

  1. Milton

    Milton 12oz Senior Member

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    Stanley "Tookie" Williams

    Discussion started by Milton - Nov 20, 2005

    So my girl told me about this story a couple of days ago, now its all over CNN. A breif recap for those who don't know:
    Willaims was cofounder of the Crips a Los Angeles street game in 1971. Eventually in 1981 he was convicted of four homicides on "questionable" evidence. Following his conviction he reformed and began to write children's stories about non-violence. As a result the stories he has been nominated for 5 Nobel Peace Prizes. He recently exhausted his last appeal and the date of his execution has been set for Dec. 13. (More info is availabile at: tookie.com )

    Anyhow I'm curious about opinions whether he should be put to death. Mine goes a little something like this:
    1) I'm a liberal, I admit it, but I was until recently a firm believer in justice/retribution for crimes etc.
    2) I think if there is any reason to leave someone in jail versus executing him, this would be an exemplary case. He is contributing to the betterment of society, he is remorseful, he is reformed. No one is going to be deterred if they kill him.
    3) The only "good" thing that will come of it is that the mother of guy who was killed will get some sick sense of justice. She just got finished ranting on CNN about how he is doing nothing good and that his books are a way of profiteering off of the "gang life."
    3a) This woman (I refrain from calling her a bitch because her anger is understandable) is ranting and raving about how he has done nothing to deserve mercy. It is also interested to note that when asked if he should be killed she did not answer, she said "justice must be served."
    4) I don't think this is an adequate justification for killing someone, and I think she as well as everyone else will realize that about 10 minutes too late. Taking his life isn't going to bring her son back, as a matter of fact we're not even sure if it was Williams that killed the son. I think that cold revelation will set in on her on her way out of the jail from watching the execution.

    On a side note does anybody else think it's fucked up that they let families of victims watch someone die? Why would you want to see that shit first of all, and second is there really any need for it. I'm sure they believe that the person is being killed. Why sit and watch that. People who have seen death say that it is the most fucked up thing you can observe, why allow people to subject themselves to that for some sick sense of revenge?
    I have this idea, I think if the family calls for the death penalty, they should push the button themselves. If they really want revenge so badly let them take it. Letting them hide behind state sanctioned punishment and yell about justice from the sidelines is such bullshit. If you're really that pissed get your hands dirty.
    That's all I'm sayin'

    Discuss.
     
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  2. Soup

    Soup 12oz Elite Member

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    Soup - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    For your side note, yeah. Let them watch. Let them do whatever it is they need to do to go back to their normal lives before the trauma of a loved one murdered happened. If it brings them that little sense of justice, regardless how misdirected their anger may seem to you, then why would I want to stop it? Fuck making the victim push the button tho, I can easily draw the line there.


    As for Tookie, I say stage the whole death, and wait for the response from the Crips outside San Quintin. If a riot's staged, gun's fired, anything violent in the least, kill em.
     
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  3. Milton

    Milton 12oz Senior Member

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    Milton - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    1) I wouldn't be surprised if there were a riot in LA somewhere. In fact, I would be more surprised if nothing happened.

    2) I think it's pretty ridiculous for a woman to come on CNN and disrespect a man who is dying. I realize that she has every reason to be angry and want revenge. But I don't think it is acceptable for her or anyone else to discuss another human being as though he is an animal. I mean, if you insist on killing people I think you should recognize that it is a person you are killing.

    3) Why draw the line at them pushing the button? None of it is going to help her "get on with her life." If she was going to get over it she would have by now. But she is holding resentment against him, and when he dies she is still going to resent him. It doesn't matter if he stays in prison for life, gets killed by something else, she kills him, whatever it isn't going to make her feel any better. She could have had closure in 1981 if they sentenced him to life with no parole.
     
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  4. Soup

    Soup 12oz Elite Member

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    Soup - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    If the woman's portaying Tookie as an inhumane animal then she's a bitch and get the mic away from her but you're not gonna shut her up and you'd be daft to try.

    I will say it's a little funny that people think since he wrote a few nobel prize children's stories that he's redeemed himself. If that's all it takes for folks to get off the death penalty I'd say Tookie's got two options:

    1. Dec 19, lethal injection
    2. Talk to Schwarzenegger and make a deal that if he lives he promises to turn the entire Crips organization into a group of award winning children's book writers.

    I'd let him live to see him try that. If worst comes to worst and the writing's all slop they can always kill him later.
     
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  5. John Birch

    John Birch 12oz Member

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    John Birch - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    although I'm personally against the death penalty, this guy is a perfect example of why we should have one. Fry the fuckin peice of shit, he deserves it. he's local warlord crime figure who's trying to do the whole I-reformed-my-life bullshit to save himself. He persoanlly murdered a few people and most likely ordered the murders of dozens more. I just wish some scumbag from the aryan brotherhood rapes him first...
     
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  6. Milton

    Milton 12oz Senior Member

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    Milton - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    You are against the death penalty except in this instance huh?

    I think you're a perfect example of why there should be a competency test for breeding.

    If you're going to make stupid comments about raping him etc, do it somewhere else.
     
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  7. ASER1NE

    ASER1NE 12oz Veteran Member

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    ASER1NE - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    As Far as im concerned the death penalty should be reserved for Rapists and Child molesters.
     
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  8. Milton

    Milton 12oz Senior Member

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    Milton - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    I think rape is a worse crime than murder, but supreme court has ruled death penalty for rape is unconstitutional.
     
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  9. John Birch

    John Birch 12oz Member

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    John Birch - Replied Nov 20, 2005


    you know what? go fuck yourself you liberal do-gooder nambla faggot.

    Tookie is a scumbag and deserves what he gets. people who support him are no worse than supporter of George Bush.

    And I could waste my time explaining why I'm against the death penalty but support death for scumbags, but that would be over your sheltered narowed minded pseudo-liberal head. If you ever got to jail, I'd pop your cherry the first night...
     
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  10. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

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    CACashRefund - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    Dude, did you just confess your secret fantasy of having jailhouse anal sex with milton? :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:

    :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
     
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  11. Milton

    Milton 12oz Senior Member

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    Milton - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    That isn't even an undertone.

    John Birch -
    I was, up until recently. a full fleged supporter for the death penalty. But I disagree with it in certain cases, this being one. This is a logical stance. But, you're stance is completely illogical. Let me explain. You're saying "I'm completely against X" and then saying "In this case I believe X should be applied." Do you see how the two are inconsisent? You're basically a death penalty supporter but restrict it to certain classes of people, which is what we do in this country anyway. You could "explain" it all day but it still wouldn't make sense. Not because it's "over my head" but because its stupid.

    Sheltered? Not really, but think what you will. Anybody who thinks a man who is sentenced to die deserves to be raped on the way out is ignorant. Period.
    Speaking of ignorant:
     
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  12. yum

    yum 12oz Junior Member

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    yum - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    i agree with you up until you pulled the fucking grammar shit, i cant stand it when people attempt to put other people onshow by pointing out they didnt use a fucking capital letter, youre not writing a legal document your writing something on the net
     
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  13. Krakatau

    Krakatau 12oz Member

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    Krakatau - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    If you pull support on the death penalty based on someone's ability to use English..... I'd say you are a bitch.

    Really though. If you are going to call someone an idiot it is better to not look like an idiot in the process.

    *Edited for thread relevance*

    I think Tookie should be allowed to live. He is making an effort to contribute something positive to society... it's not like the Nobel Prizes come in the mail in envelopes marked 'Pre-Approved!'.

    The mother isn't going to get closure, regardless of whether he lives or dies. Her son is gone either way. Two wrongs don't make a right? Turn the other cheek and all that?
     
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  14. yum

    yum 12oz Junior Member

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    yum - Replied Nov 20, 2005

    If you pull support on the death penalty based on someone's ability to use English..... I'd say you are a bitch.

    Really though. If you are going to call someone an idiot it is better to not look like an idiot in the process.
    [post=4176530]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]
    i never did support the death penalty, i was saying i agreed with miltons argument until he resorted to claiming not botherign to use a capital letter on the net made osmeone an idiot.
     
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  15. Dawood

    Dawood 12oz Elite Member

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    Dawood - Replied Nov 21, 2005

    eye for an eye, baby. You kill , you get killed. Simple recipe.

    I Don't look at it from a two wrongs don't make a right standpoint. I look at it as a positive preventative. If you know you are for sure going to get killed if you get caught,
    you might not be so quick to put on that supa-gangsta mask and cape and do drive by's in the hood. Same with a lot of crimes, The reason theft is so high in America is that the penaltys are next to nothing. If a joker got his hand chopped off for stealing , then he would think twice for sure, (and every case has to be investigated of course) You can't punish poor guy stealing to feed his family like the rich guy who's a stick up cat robbing for a living.

    ya dig?
     
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