seeking asylum in Canada

• ISN SECURITY WATCH (08/12/04) - A former US Marine has testified before a Canadian asylum tribunal that his unit had killed more than 30 innocent Iraqi civilians in only two days, news agencies reported. The testimony of Sergeant Jimmy Massey on Monday before Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) was in defense of US paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman, who had deserted the US Army and is seeking asylum in Canada. Massey said his unit had gunned down 30 unarmed civilians in Iraq in 2003 and that US Marines had routinely shot wounded Iraqis and killed them, according to the Washington Post. Massey said the 30 killings in two days had taken place while his unit was on checkpoint duty in Baghdad. “I do know that we killed innocent civilians,” he said. Massey reportedly told Canadian immigration officials that US soldiers had be scared that suicide bombers would attempt to attack checkpoints, and that cars were fired upon if they failed to respond to a single warning shot or hand signals. He said more than once, hundreds of rounds of ammunition were pounded into to individual cars, killing innocent civilians. According to the Washington Post, Massey is a 12-year veteran who left Iraq in May 2003 after being diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder after he and his men had killed four Iraqis staging a demonstration, including one man who had surrendered and women and children. Massey said his superiors ignored his complaints about the “killing of innocent civilians”. Massey served as a staff sergeant in Iraq for a platoon of between 25 and 50 men. Hinzman fled to Canada from Fort Bragg, North Carolina to avoid being sent to Iraq. At the Pentagon, a Marine Corps spokesman has denied Massey’s charges as unfounded. Canada refused to join the US-led invasion of Iraq.

from a canadain news source

from Al-Jazeera online

so should Canada provide asylum to american deserters?

like this guy:

• Hinzman case
   
  Hinzman earlier argued at the tribunal, which started on Monday and was due to end on Wednesday, that he gradually realised after joining the army in 2001 that he could not bring himself to kill another person.
   
  "I was faced with being deployed to Iraq to do what the infantry does, kill people, and I had no justification for doing so," said Hinzman.
   
  Hinzman, his wife and two-year-old son arrived in Canada early this year, after deserting from his unit, an action which carries a maximum five-year jail term.

^ that's Hinzman

TORONTO (CP) - A former United States marine told a refugee hearing for an American war dodger Tuesday that trigger-happy U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children, and murdered other Iraqis in violation of international law.

In chilling testimony intended to bolster the asylum claim of compatriot Jeremy Hinzman, former staff sergeant Jimmy Massey recounted how nervous soldiers trained to believe that all Iraqis were potential terrorists often opened fire indiscriminately.

"I was never clear on who the enemy was," Massey, 33, told the hearing.

"If you have no enemy or you do not know who the enemy is, what are you doing there?"

On several occasions, his soldiers pumped hundreds of bullets into cars that failed to stop at U.S. military checkpoints, killing all occupants - who were later found to be unarmed, Massey said.

^ source

sure, why not.

I give the dude a big thumbs up for leaving.

Not at all surprised by Massey's testimony.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/11/10_400.html

Breaking Ranks

More and more U.S. soldiers are speaking out against the war in Iraq -- and some are refusing to fight.

Yeah they don't play at checkpoints...

Rummy got served some hot questions today....

I hung out with 2 recently returned vets and what he said is absolutely true. These guys told some insane stories - my favorite was a fellow soldiers shooting an Iraqi in the head for spitting in his face...no one did anything about it

Yeah after being the judge jury and executioner it's hard for some of these people to readjust when they come back... It's not uncommon for me to hear "Well I almost killed someone yesterday..." haha... well its really not funny. Well you know someone says something you don't like it can set people off. I don't know how I'm still alive. lol. I guess they tolerate me cause I'm actually in the military.

the thing is....you cant even blame the soldiers for that shit. i mean, in real obvious cases you can, but if im working at a check point and a motherfucker isnt stopping and he might have a bomb in his car trying to blow me and my peoples up?

sheeit, dudes winning the wet t-shirt contest for sure.

of course if was never deployed over there and put in a position to kill people, wouldnt no body be dying, now would there?

asylum or innocence?

ha-ha...I kill me.

Originally posted by seeking@Dec 9 2004, 05:24 PM

the thing is....you cant even blame the soldiers for that shit. i mean, in real obvious cases you can, but if im working at a check point and a motherfucker isnt stopping and he might have a bomb in his car trying to blow me and my peoples up?

sheeit, dudes winning the wet t-shirt contest for sure.

 

of course if was never deployed over there and put in a position to kill people, wouldnt no body be dying, now would there?

Quoted post

Well they actually started doing that cause there was an iraqi woman who looked like she was pregnant pulled up to the check point and started screaming and flipping out and marines came over to see what was going on and she blew them up.... so now they order everyone to stop... if they don't stop if they are nice they fire a warning shot, and if they still don't stop they light them up.

Shortly after Massey arrived in Iraq, his unit was ordered to man roadblocks. To stop cars, the Marines would raise their hands. If the drivers kept going, Massey says, “we would just light ’em up. I didn’t find out until later on, after talking to an Iraqi, that when you put your hand up in the air, it means ‘Hello.’” He estimates that his men killed 30 civilians in one 48-hour period

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/20...1/10_400-2.html

Yeah they are just figuring this stuff out. The problem is there are few army wide standards. It's mainly how your unit runs things. Some units could be light years away from others. Some units are not recieving briefs on these types of cultural sensitivities, and manners of conduct. Some units are not even recieving supplies they need. Pretty much everyone should get the ROE brief though. That's standard I would think. Perhaps a brushing up on geneva conventions.

Originally posted by symbols@Dec 10 2004, 04:38 AM

when you put your hand up in the air, it means ‘Hello.’”

I remember hearing this before.

All I have to say is...how fucking difficult would it have been to make a fucking stop sign in arabic? Seems pretty simple compared to all the high tech machinery and weapons that are over there. I bet it would have been fairly affective as well. Too many idiots running the world.

part of me is mortified

part of me thinks there is two sides to every story

part of me thinks i would say anything to get out of that hell hole

part of me doesnt feel bad for the guy, what was he thinking that this was going to be the fucking boy scouts and widdle some fucking wood

heres a bit of wisdom for the younger gents from unkie roe, if you dont like killing people, maybe even innocent ones at that, dont join the army.

could work?

Canada is 'allowed' to exist. video

I don't think that link works^...Now that i think about it, It's pretty pointless. Ann Coulter is a head case.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412010011

Originally posted by TRAMP@Dec 11 2004, 11:58 AM

Canada is 'allowed' to exist. video

Quoted post

see, when canadians and the rest of the world think of the typical american this is what immediately pops to mind.

whether those ignorant fucks were serious or not, i think it shows exactly how out of touch right wing americans are. how can you start to threaten a respected member of the international community which prides itself on being a peacmaking nation just because we disagreed with you? if america were a person, it would be the big jock with a little dick.

Originally posted by <KEY3>@Dec 10 2004, 10:17 AM

 

could work?

Quoted post

You don't think those are at the check points? There's dozens of signs at the checkpoints in both Arabic and English that clearly say stop. And they put em a few miles before the checkpoints so they know it's coming up. So if they're not stopping, that's their own fault; they could be a threat to the soldiers.

But fuck the war, we shouldn't be there in the first place.

Originally posted by effyoo+Dec 11 2004, 11:16 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (effyoo - Dec 11 2004, 11:16 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-TRAMP@Dec 11 2004, 11:58 AM

Canada is 'allowed' to exist. video

Quoted post

see, when canadians and the rest of the world think of the typical american this is what immediately pops to mind.

whether those ignorant fucks were serious or not, i think it shows exactly how out of touch right wing americans are. how can you start to threaten a respected member of the international community which prides itself on being a peacmaking nation just because we disagreed with you? if america were a person, it would be the big jock with a little dick.

[/b]

yo watchin that made me sick. and i didn't think a woman (a younger generation at that) could be so right wing. usually women are more liberal than that. that bitch is more right wing than most older men. it was also foolish of her to say that since the u.s. and canada are so tied together that hundreds of thousands or even a couple million canadians were probably watching at the time.

at the same time it's not fair to think her comments represent the american view. she's an extreme-rightist small minority. as you saw, the other right wingers (Hannity & Colmes) disagreed with her and called her arrogant. she should be slapped in her mouth.

oh that makes me so mad!!!

damn bitch saying that we're 'allowed' to exist on the same continent.

I just hate it when people spout off without knowing their history.

After all..... it was the French who worked with the Americans to

create their own nation free from british rule. Without the French

fighting the Brits there would be no USA. And this whole 'McWorld' thing

really pisses me off.