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Secret CIA Prisons?

Discussion in 'News' started by KING BLING, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. KING BLING

    KING BLING Guest

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...422.html?sub=AR


    U.S. Faces Scrutiny Over Secret Prisons


    Officials in Eastern Europe Deny Role

    By Craig Whitlock / Washington Post

    THE HAGUE, Nov. 3 The International Committee of the Red Cross, the European Union and human rights groups said Thursday they would press the U.S. and European governments for information about the reported existence of secret prisons in Eastern Europe, where the CIA has detained top al Qaeda captives.

    Government officials across that region issued denials Thursday that their countries hosted the prisons, which some European officials contend would violate local human rights laws. But the revelation, reported by The Washington Post on Wednesday, captured headlines across the continent and led human-rights organizations to call for official investigations.

    The Post reported that the CIA had been interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda prisoners at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe. The classified site is part of a global network of covert prisons the CIA established after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks with locations in eight countries, including Afghanistan, Thailand and several East European democracies.

    In Brussels, a spokesman for the European Union, Friso Roscam Abbing, said that the E.U. would query its 25 member states to find out more about the prisons. Their existence, he said, could violate the European Convention on Human Rights and the international Convention Against Torture, treaties that all E.U. nations are bound to follow.

    "We have to find out what is exactly happening," Roscam Abbing told reporters. "We have all heard about this."

    Later Thursday, senior E.U. officials appeared to put a damper on any kind of official inquiry. Justice commissioner Franco Frattini said in a statement that the E.U. had no information on the Post report and it was therefore "not appropriate" for him to comment. Noting that the 25 E.U. countries are bound by human rights and anti-torture conventions, he said he would "encourage member states to look into this matter."

    It is illegal for the U.S. government to hold prisoners in such isolation in secret prisons in the United States, which is why the CIA placed them overseas, according to several former and current intelligence officials and other U.S. officials. American legal experts and intelligence officials said that the CIA's internment practices would be considered illegal under the laws of several host countries.

    The Post has not identified the East European countries involved in the secret program at the request of senior U.S. officials who argued that the disclosure could disrupt counterterrorism efforts. But the report has prompted a concerted effort by European news organizations and other groups to try to pinpoint the locations.

    Human Rights Watch, a New York-based advocacy group, said it had obtained flight logs showing that a CIA-chartered aircraft had used airstrips in Poland and Romania in 2003, around the same time that the United States was transporting top al Qaeda prisoners from Afghanistan to other locations, including the U.S. naval prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    The Romanian Defense Ministry issued a statement saying it "was not aware that such a detention center existed" at the air base identified by Human Rights Watch. Prime Minister Calin Popescu Tariceanu was more direct: "We do not have CIA bases in Romania," he said on state television.

    In Poland, undergoing a change in government after recent elections, current and former officials denied that the country was involved in the prison system.

    In Russia, a number of news organizations reported on the Post story on their Web sites. Some headlines compared the CIA prisons to the Soviet gulag, the infamous network of prison camps. "Secret network of jails -- heritage of Gulag?" read the headline on the news site www.regions.ru. The headline on www.utro.ru read: "The Washington Post: CIA has created a new GULAG." Russian officials denied there were CIA prisons in their country.

    In Geneva, the Red Cross said Thursday it has repeated a request to the U.S. government to allow the humanitarian organization to visit terrorism suspects held in isolation at secret locations. The Red Cross is allowed to visit prisoners held by the United States in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay but has previously expressed concern that U.S. officials were keeping some detainees hidden from its monitors.

    "We are concerned at the fate of an unknown number of people captured as part of the so-called global war on terror and held at undisclosed places of detention," Antonella Notari, chief ICRC spokeswoman, told the Reuters news service.

    Europe's leading human-rights organization, the Council of Europe, said it would open an investigation into the East European prisons.

    The U.N. Human Rights Committee and the U.N. special rapporteur on torture said they have already been pressing the U.S. government to disclose the existence of any secret detention centers and would renew their efforts in response to the reports of the CIA prisons.
     
  2. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 14,171 Likes Received: 272
    when i saw the headline on a newspaper "secret prisons in eastern europe" i imagined a eerie looking castle on a mountain.
     
  3. KING BLING

    KING BLING Guest

    CIA asks Justice Dept. to review prisons report


    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The CIA has sent a report to the U.S. Justice Department indicating classified information may have been leaked to The Washington Post for its recent story about secret prisons run by the spy agency, according to U.S. officials.

    The newspaper reported last week that the CIA was holding top suspected al Qaeda terrorists at undisclosed prisons in eastern Europe and other locations.

    The Justice Department refused to confirm or deny a referral was made.

    The action by the CIA general counsel was taken immediately after the Washington Post article was published, an official said.

    It is similar to one taken when covert officer Valerie Plame's name was made public in an article written by a syndicated columnist.

    By law, when there is the possibility that classified information has been leaked, the CIA is required to inform the Justice Department, which generally launches an investigation into the matter.

    Earlier Tuesday, Republican congressional leaders asked for an investigation into the matter, and Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi suggested his own GOP colleagues could be to blame for the possible leak.

    Sen. Bill Frist of Tennessee, the Senate majority leader, and Rep. Dennis Hastert of Illinois, the House speaker, asked the chairmen of the House and Senate intelligence committees to look into the report, saying the disclosure could damage national security.

    "If accurate, such an egregious disclosure could have long-term and far-reaching damaging and dangerous consequences, and will imperil our efforts to protect the American people and our homeland from terrorist attacks," they wrote in a letter requesting the investigation.

    Lott told reporters the information in the Post story was the same as that given to Republican senators in a closed-door briefing by Vice President Dick Cheney last week.

    "Every word that was said in there went right to the newspaper," he said. "We can't keep our mouths shut."

    Lott, a former Senate majority leader who was pushed out in 2002, suggested the information was passed along by a senator to a staff member.

    He said the investigation Frist and Hastert want may result in an ethics probe of a Senate member.

    Citing U.S. officials and those from other governments familiar with the arrangement, the Post reported Wednesday that top al Qaeda suspects were being held for questioning "at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe" and other locations around the world.

    Critics said the arrangement suggests U.S. agents are engaged in activities that would be illegal under American law.

    Top U.S. officials would not confirm or deny the report, but insisted all prisoners are being treated humanely. President Bush said flatly Monday, "We do not torture."

    A Washington Post spokesman said the paper had no comment on the possibility of an investigation.

    The leak probe request was announced as top administration officials battled a Senate-approved measure that explicitly bars "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment" of prisoners in U.S. custody.

    The White House has threatened to veto a $440 billion Pentagon spending bill if it includes that measure, which is backed by Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona -- who as a prisoner of war during Vietnam was tortured by his North Vietnamese captors.


    And it came a day after Democrats called for an independent investigation into the treatment of prisoners in American custody.

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi urged GOP leaders to initiate a broader investigation -- one that would include the 2003 leak of Valerie Plame's identity and the faulty intelligence used to argue for the invasion of Iraq.

    "There is plenty to investigate about the Bush administration's use and misuse of intelligence," the California Democrat said in a written statement. "The American people deserve the truth."

    Democratic Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, the Senate minority leader, told CNN the GOP announcement was "just for show."

    And a senior Democratic aide called it a way for Republicans to divert attention from the grand jury probe into the exposure of Plame, whose husband had publicly challenged a key element of the Bush administration's case for war.

    That disclosure led to the October 28 indictment of Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who resigned as Cheney chief of staff.

    Libby was charged with obstruction of justice, perjury and making false statements to federal agents investigating who revealed Plame's identity to reporters.
     
  4. This perfectly illustrates why most of the primary european countries (oldest members of the EU) werent extremely keen on adding another dozen of countries that werent on the same standards in the EU last year, but it still happened.
    The pressure came directly from the US via the UK and you see most of the reasons here...shit, poland would need at least 10 years of progress but i guess after supporting the axis and sending troops to iraq shit became waay easier. The last 2 years washington&UK is really pressing to get Turkey in the EU which will be the end of EU as we know it...

    The EU is a big joke for not being able to hold a pollitical voice or to focused in the finacial aspects of a union and as you already know the US doesnt recognise 90% of the western worlds higher courts, international treatees and regulations so dont expect anyone to lose sleep over that shit.
     
  5. Also i dont see why is this a schock since Guantanamo operates in full secrecy and vurglary...

    to late for spell check.
     
  6. Dawood

    Dawood Elite Member

    Joined: May 8, 2002 Messages: 4,677 Likes Received: 146
  7. POIESIS

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    fuck spell check, 'vurglary' is a gnarley word.
     
  8. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,125 Likes Received: 64
    I'm fascinated. I'm guessing he meant "vulgarly," but I'm not sure even that makes sense. Guantanamo's Camp X-Ray is not operating in secret, there are United States Marines and Marine officers, Navy officers, U.S. Navy hospital corpsmen, CIA men, FBI men and every other kind of law enforcement agency everywhere one looks. Nobody is being "disappeared" at Guantanamo.

    However, I wouldn't bet that some seriously "vulgar" shit isn't going on at CIA prisons in Egypt, former Soviet satellite states and other places. Being an enemy of the United States has some serious negative consequences if you happen to wind up in the hands of the CIA.
     
  9. !@#$%

    !@#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 621
    thanks, mr.authority-on-guantanamo

    it's interesting to see that some people actually believe what the government tells them about what is transpiring in the fucking u.s. gulag.

    gu·lag also Gu·lag Pronunciation Key (gläg)
    n.

    1. A network of forced labor camps in the former Soviet Union.
    2. A forced labor camp or prison, especially for political dissidents.
    3. A place or situation of great suffering and hardship, likened to the atmosphere in a prison system or a forced labor camp.

    let's not forget the era of mccarthyism
    being an 'enemy' does not always equal guilt.
    all the innocent families ripped apart by that prison will produce a new terrorist
     
  10. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 14,171 Likes Received: 272
    any prison in the world can fall under that definition
     
  11. !@#$%

    !@#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 621
    if you think so, read Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn

    GULAG (Glavnoe Upravlenie Ispravitelno-trudovykh Lagerei, "Chief Directorate of Corrective Labor Camps") is an acronym for the administration of the Soviet prison labor camp system. The word archipelago compares the system of labor camps spread across the Soviet Union with a vast "chain of islands"; known only to those who were fated to visit it. It also produces a rhyming title in Russian (arkhipelág gulág) that is not reproduced in English translation.

    Solzhenitsyn originally wrote the book in secret after his own term as a political prisoner, but he had it published abroad in 1973 after the KGB confiscated a copy of the manuscript.

    The detail of the book, which presented information on the putative crimes and criminals, their phony trials, the transportation and treatment of prisoners, which put the USSR in a negative light, chronicles a long history of oppression dating back to Lenin's absorption of the Tsarist penal system.

    The book is a compilation of not only Solzhenitsyn's personal experiences in the Gulag, but also the experiences of 227 fellow prisoners. These prisoners were either ones that Solzhenitsyn knew personally or whose story he heard from others.
     
  12. KING BLING

    KING BLING Guest

    Frist concerned more about leaks than secret prisons

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/10/fri...s.ap/index.html

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist says he is more concerned about the leak of information regarding secret CIA detention centers than activity in the prisons themselves.

    Frist told reporters Thursday that while he believed illegal activity should not take place at detention centers, he believes the leak itself poses a greater threat to national security and is "not concerned about what goes on" behind the prison walls.

    "My concern is with leaks of information that jeopardize your safety and security -- period," Frist said. "That is a legitimate concern."

    He noted that the CIA has also called for a federal criminal investigation into the leak of possibly classified information on secret prisons to The Washington Post. A November 2 Post article touched on a number of sensitive national security issues, including the existence of secret CIA detention centers for suspected terrorists in Eastern European democracies. The Bush administration has neither confirmed nor denied that report.

    Frist was asked if that meant he was not concerned about investigating what goes on in detention centers.

    "I am not concerned about what goes on and I'm not going to comment about the nature of that," Frist replied.

    He added that as Senate majority leader he is privy to classified information and discussions about prison activity. "I'm going to make sure that everything that's done is consistent with the Constitution ... and the laws of the United States of America," he said.

    Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Illinois, wrote the leaders of the House and Senate intelligence committees earlier this week calling for a joint congressional investigation into the leak.

    "What is the actual and potential damage done to the national security of the United States and our partners in the global war on terror?" the letter said, referring to the leak.

    The Post's story said the CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, part of a covert prison system set up by the agency four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries. Those countries, the Post said, include several democracies.
     
  13. CACashRefund

    CACashRefund 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 14,171 Likes Received: 272
    read my comment again, i know fully well what a gulag is but ill repeat myself:
    by the definition you posted, all jails in the world can be classified under it.
     
  14. !@#$%

    !@#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 621
    generally, state and federal prisons and jails are not known as 'political' prisons

    and anyway, who the fuck cares? are you part of this discussion or are you trying to make some convoluted point about semantics?
     
  15. KING BLING

    KING BLING Guest

    I agree.

    State and Federal Prisons - no exactly the most just state of things but they are out in the open. Convicts have rights to trials and lawyers and are held for stated crimes

    Secret prisons, Gulags, Concentration camps - People are held en masse for no established reason. They have no oversight or review. Typically held for political reasons or under the guise of them being a threat to some campaign - though no public review or responce is allowed.


    These are my definitions to contrast the two. I like how all the "constitutionalists" here seem perfectly okay with us doing the opposite of the constitution as long as it is not American soil...
     
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