By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account.

Rummy admits violating geneva convention

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by 23578, Jun 18, 2004.

  1. 23578

    23578 Elite Member

    Joined: Jul 2, 2000 Messages: 2,521 Likes Received: 0
    Rumsfeld:violates Geneva Conv.

    seems we have not been registering some of our more controversial prisoners with the red cross.

    full text of article:
    ____WASHINGTON, June 17 (Xinhuanet) -- US Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld defended on Thursday his decision to hold an Iraqi prisoner without notifying international authorities in an apparent violation of the Geneva Convention, saying the detainee was treated humanely.

    ____"I was requested by the director of Central Intelligence to take custody of an Iraqi national who was believed to be a high-ranking member of Ansar al-Islam," Rumsfeld said at a news conference.

    ____"We were asked to not immediately register the individual. And we did that," he said. "He has been treated humanely."

    ____The Pentagon earlier confirmed a New York Times report that Rumsfeld, acting at the request of CIA Director George J. Tenet, ordered military officials in Iraq last November to hold a man suspected of being a senior Iraqi terrorist at a high-level detention center there but not list him on the prison's rolls.

    ____The suspect has been held since then without being given an identification number and without the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) being notified, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said.

    ____This prisoner and other "ghost detainees" were hidden largely to prevent the ICRC from monitoring their treatment and conditions,other officials said. This prisoner, who has not be named, is believed to be the first to have been kept off the books at the orders of Rumsfeld and Tenet.

    ____Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, the US Army officer who investigated abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, criticized the practice in his report in March of allowing "ghost detainees" as "deceptive, contrary to Army doctrine, and in violation of international law."

    ____Seven months later, the detainee - a reputed senior officer of Ansar al-Islam, a group the United States has linked to al Qaeda, is still languishing at the prison but only been questioned once while in detention, the New York Times said.

    ____Whitman said the Pentagon has taken steps to rectify the situation, acknowledging that it should have notified the ICRC about the detainee earlier. Enditem

    in other news, Rumsfeld Now Taking Orders From the CIA.
  2. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623

    it just gets worse all the time.
    no wonder americans are getting kidnapped..they got the idea from us.
  3. StarzAbove

    StarzAbove Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 15, 2003 Messages: 7,134 Likes Received: 6
    Get rid of him already! 4 real New Electionnnn
  4. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
  5. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    they didn't win the last one either
  6. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    bush's approval ratings rose this week to 57%. that's wack.

    92% of iraqi's view of as an occupying force.
    50% would feel safer if we left
    50% think we're all like the guars at abu ghrab.
    100% of seekings wish someone would kill bush and everyone around him.
  7. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    thing is though, not all those iraqis were fighting us.

    i think we know just from the american justice system that it makes mistakes all the time and incarcerates innocent people.

    not every incarcerated iraqi wanted to kill all americans before he was imprisoned.

    it's just this kind of thinking that got us into the abu ghraib mess.

    just because we don't agree doesn't make us better, superior, whatever.

    they have a right to battle an army that decimated their infrastructure, just as we would if america was attacked.

    maybe rummy had some good idea, but he's lost it..
    going against the geneva convention is fucking over more than 50 years of american foreign policy decisions made by intelligent men.
    guerrila warfare is also nothing new, i don't buy inot the "new war. new enemy" rhetoric.

    and as far as caring less, expect american forces to be treated now with the same attitude...we have now lost our bargaining chips if we unfortunately incur POWs
  8. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    we dont follow the geneva convention because we care about them, we do it so others have to follow it as well. once we start openly disregarding it, it opens the doors for anyone we fight against to do the same. once you're getting a broom stick shoved up your ass, being forced to watch your daughter being raped, having piss soaked underwear stuck on your face for days, or being forced to fuck another soldier in the ass, you'll be pretty pissed off about the pandoras box that rumsfeld oppened.

    also, if rumy has done so much for the army, and cares so much about the soldiers, why is he not arming them properly, not providing them with proper armor* and not giving the generals the number of troops they requested?

    *an army study found that roughly 100 of the (then) roughly 700 soldiers killed, could have survived had their vehicles been properly armored (as requested, and turned down).
    maybe there are alot of internal things that he's done to help you guys out, but there are a shit load of very obvious things that the government has done to fuck soldiers in the ass....cutting medical benefits for millions of vets, for instance.
  9. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    depending on who you get your info from, both the red cross and the army itself have stated that between 60 and 90% of prisoners were not combatants, and were just rounded up randomly. we were giving out rewards to people to turned in combatants, so iraqi's were just selling eachother out to make a dollar. also, with a country filled with people who look very similar, and are very similarly named, how often do you think our soldiers made indentity mistakes, and just rounded up anyone named mohammed?!

    seeks/i'll bet that happend alot.
  10. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    yeah, and that mistaken identity/wrongful conviction shit never happens to americans :rolleyes:

    i mean jebus.
    the FBI sold me out with some bogus information that kept me out of canada!

    military intelligence is the biggest oxymoron since homeland security..

    gotta thanks mumia for that observation

    godd i was watching PBS frontline last night and they were doing a special on wrongful incarcerations..saddest part, some of those people are still in prison.
  11. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    how would you feel about rumsfeld if you knew that your friends life could have been saved if the government had spent the incredibly measily amount of money it would have required to properly arm the humvee's, instead of spending it on tens of millions of dollars in hand outs to haliburton (a million dollar hotel bill!!)?

    i dont give a shit if you care about iraqi's, but if you cant see how us violating the geneva convention makes it a fucking free for all, and will result in the exact same treatement for our soldiers, then yuo're either dumb as shit, completely blinded by your job, or totally lying to yourself.

    seeks/having talked with you in the past, i'm voting for a combination of the latter two.
  12. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623

    sorry about your friend.

    seeks make an excellent point.

    my grandfather was a war hero, thankfully ww2 was a 'just' war, but he was sent to the pit of hell no one talks about (korean war) as well..

    the [people in charge of the] armed forces are out of control.
    and they STILL don't take proper care of vets.

    what has rumsfeld done for the soldiers who came home, damaged and depressed, and killed someone they loved, or themselves.

    and what about all the secret spending??

    hundreds of thousands to Chalabi, but no nody armor?!
    not rummy's fault???????
  13. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    the president sets the budget, congress approves it.

    and he loaded it with hidden costs

    President Bush’s $2.13 trillion FY 2003 budget, as expected, centers on big spending increases for the military and domestic defense. However, a closer look inside Bush’s budget reveals that the administration plans to pay for those increases by tapping into the Social Security and Medicare trust funds and gouging big cuts in government initiatives that directly benefit working families. The Bush plan eats up more than $2 trillion of the Social Security and Medicare surpluses over the next decade to pay for Bush’s millionaire tax cut passed last year and other federal programs.

    “When it comes to waging war on terrorism, the president has our total support,” said Rep. John Spratt (D-S.C.), ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee. “But national security and homeland security need not come at the expense of Social Security. We can pursue terrorists and still pursue other priorities,” he said.

    Along with dipping into the formerly off-limits Social Security and Medicare trust funds, Bush’s plan “uses an array of budget devices and implausible assumptions that mask hundreds of billions of dollars in tax reductions and government expenditures that are certain to occur, but are omitted from the budget,” according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
    Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D) said Bush’s budget bears some similarity to the financial practices of failed energy giant Enron Corp.

    “They said that the biggest problem with Enron was that they were hiding debt, hiding it from their shareholders, hiding it from their creditors, hiding it from themselves. I think that’s exactly what the federal government is doing,” Conrad said.

  14. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    actually, the vast majority of the countries we deal with do infact follow the geneva convention. when iraqi soldiers captured our troops, they took them to civillan hospitals for christ sake. mccain has pointed out that in vietnam, while a POW, he was not treated excessively inhumanely. you're excuse on this one is total bullshit. it's like saying it's ok to rape 9 year old girls, because there are alot of 9 year old prostitutes in thailand!! two wrongs dont make a right and when you present yourself as being the moral police of the world, you sure as fuck better adhere to the morality you're preaching.

    as far as military spending goes, we have the money for the armor, they just didnt think it was worth the time and effort to do it. we also have the troops, they just did not want to devote them. they honestly didnt think they would have to. they literally believed that we would be greeted with open arms, and that the war would be over in a week. that is why we did not have enough troops on the ground, not because they dont exist, but because we have them scattered in 80+ countries around the world, just fucking hanging out.

    as far as iraqi prisoners being treated better than our soldiers, i HIGHLY doubt that. if you can give me some proof, i'll be happy to eat my words, but the idea that we are (literally) raping one set of prisoners, meanwhile we're setting another set up in 5star accomidations is ludicrous.

    again, to touch on the military spending issue, bush has pretty much gotten a blank check for iraq. he can spend the money anyway he wants to. instead of arming our troops, he's paying halliburton to send hundreds of EMPTY trucks, back and forth across the country, and bill our government for it. (this is fact as stated by dozens of halliburton truck drivers). he's giving 30MILLION dollars to an already multi, multi millionair, who 'turned in' saddams sons. i understand that congress plays a large part in military spending, but there is a REPUBLICAN controlled congress. there is no reason on gods green earth, that they are not passing bills to support our troops. they just today signed a 167 BILLION DOLLAR TAX CREDIT to corporations! they can give a trillion dollar industry, an almost 200billion dollar check, but they cant give our soldiers bullet proof glass, and body armor?!

    im sorry man, i know you're trying to do your best there, but being a 'good soldier' and following orders, that are doing nothing but getting your friends killed for no fucking reason, is not helping anyone, especially not your friends.
  15. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    before the iraq war started our generals in the field (tommy franks maybe?) was requesting a certain number of soldiers. he was turned down by rumy and wolfewitz. around this same time there was a whole lot of talk about dissention among our generals and military leaders, who felt that the government was not supporting them, was sending our soldiers in ill equipped, and was pretending to know more about running a war than those who would be doing the fighting. this was not an issue of money, it was an issue of unwillingness to commit.

    all your talk about congress and millitary 'peace time' budgests is irrelivent in a time of war. they have approved hundreds of billions of dollars for the war in and rebuilding of iraq, to be used any way our leaders see fit, with absolutely no need or provisions for overseeing how it gets spent (which is how bush funnelled millions from afghanistan, and put it into black op iraqi missions). time has proven that bush, rummy, etc viewed putting halliburton execs up in 5 star hotels, at a cost of $1 million dollars, as more important than properly arming our soldiers. this is money they could have used ANY WAY THEY WANTED. congress did not approve a budget allowing "$_________ for the housing of private business executives". it was money to be used in aiding the war effort, end of story. it was squandered on bullshit, and not used to help our troops. it has nothing to do with congress of the budgets they set (that the president gives them, and finally approves). this is totally outside of that.

    in the future, there is no need to quote me, it just makes it more confusing for me to read. no one but us and [email protected]#$ gives a shit about this, and i think the three of us are smart enough to following along unassisted.
    oh, and having said that, the word is 'our' not 'are'. ;)