By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account.

Resource Wars

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by villain, Jun 17, 2004.

  1. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    Defining future warfare. The future of war is over resources, and it's closer and more deadly than anyone might think.

    I'm basing this thread on the book titled "Resource Wars", by Michael T. Klare. While I will try to give you a general idea of the scope and depth of this book, it is so concise and informative that nothing can or should be omitted. That being said don't try and see this as a replacement or a summary for reading the book.

    We are all familiar with the war in Iraq. But do we understand the true nature of this war? At it's core it is a war over resources in the middle east. Ever since the strategic importance of oil was discovered during WWII, Roosevelt made a promise to always protect the Saudi royal family in exchange for it's oil. Thus began the American plan for total domination of the middle east.

    "President Jimmy Carter made this explicit with respect to Persian Gulf oil in 1980, following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. 'An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America,' he told a joint session of Congress, '[and] will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.' (This was the original formulation of the 'Carter Doctrine,' later used to justify U.S. intervention in Kuwait.) " There are countless examples of this type of imperical thinking. Despite the many schisms and divides in the near and middle east, a common theme that is continually growing is resistance to western imperialism.

    We have also provided a considerable amount of arms to nations in the region. Even sometimes providing equipment that is superior to our own in possession of our armed forces. What is to happen when our allies in the region fall out of favor with their people? Growing popular resistance could quickly turn our puppet regimes and proxy warriors into a formidable enemy. Quality of life in Saudi Arabia has been declining for years and many people are upset. Also with foreign troops on the soil.

    The persian gulf is not the only point of conflict over oil and natural gas. There is something called the strategic triangle. This is the Persian Gulf in the west to the Caspian Sea in the north and the South China Sea in the east. The US has particular interest in the Caspian basin as it would reduce our dependence on Persian Gulf oil. (Yeah what about hydrogen power? Nuclear fusion? anyways...) The "Great Game II" pits Russia against the US. Named after the original great game which pitted Britain against Russia. (To even think of this as a game is rather disturbing to me.) In fact, even the conflict in Chechnya is over resources. It seems that everything is these days. After the breakup of Russia, it devoted most of it's military might to the North Caucuses Military District because of it's wealth in oil and natural gas. There is also a growing US presence in the region. And with talk I've heard of US bases in western europe being moved to eastern europe, the first thing I thought was action in Chechnya. Or Georgia, or Azerbaijan... etc. etc. "All of the five littoral states- Azrbaijan, Iran, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Turkmenistan- seek to divide up these waters (the caspian) in such a way as to obtain the largest possible territory in which to drill for oil. "

    The South China Sea is also experiencing similar conflict. Personally I've only seen a handful of reports on this in the news, but expect the frequency and severity to increase unless something is done. Mostly concerning the Spratly and Paracel Islands. Asian nations are among the fastest growing developing nations and their demand for energy is growing tremendously. There have been incidents in the South China Sea over territory and resources since 1988. There is currently a naval arms race in the region between all the claimants of the Spratley Chain, China, Taiwan, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam.

    There are also great water shortages. You've got to wonder, why on a planet that is 2/3 water, there are water shortages anywhere. As it turns out desalination processes are apparently too costly and require too much energy. Not surprising either that there are few developments in this area as high demand and short supply creates high costs. And in a money oriented world that is "good". BUT, I did just see on CNN that spain is in developement of a desalination project. So at least those forward thinking europeans are doing something about this. In a survival manual I read it said you can prop up a tarp in a tent formation over salt water and it will collect evaporation which is salt free, then you collect the runoff in a trough or bucket. So if you are ever stuck in the middle of the ocean or something, there you go. But I was wondering if there were more of these in long chains over the ocean if that would be sufficient to alleiviate some of this need. Certainly it could help some DIYers.

    In the mean time much of the world is dependent on limited river and lake supplies. Particulalrly the middle east... There have already been many, many water disputes in the past and more in the future unless there is a neutral party which commands repect who is going to do what is best for everyone. In fact expect the disputes in the future to be more violent because supplies are getting shorter and populations are getting larger. Also industry and agriculture absorb large amounts of water. Often the case seems to be that upstream riparians command and control water supplies by building dams and irrigation canals and what have you.
    There has been fighting in the Nile basin, conflict in the Jordan, Tigris, Euphrates, and Indus River basins. These problems are growing exponentially, especially as more water is utilized and more and more becomes polluted. So far there have only been minor skirmishes, but the potential for full blown warfare is strong and crosses many borders.

    As if all this weren't enough there are wars over minerals and timber. There has been growing demand over these resources in an increasingly industrialized world. As an aside, they are considering changing out silicon semiconductors for diamond ones, so expect some turmoil over this because of a ridiculous demand in the catapulting tech industry. Congo, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Angola, Somolia, Papau New Guinea and Bouganville Island,.... Guess what? Most of the conflicts in these regions are over resources. Duh... damn that's where they get money for guns and shit... I see ads on TV now for jewelers that say they bought no diamonds from guerillas. Good for them.
    "The conflicts in Bougainville, Sierra Leone, and Borneo are characteristic of an assortment of disputes over valuable supplies of gems, minerals, and timber that are now occuring in various parts of the world. Other such hostilities are under way in Angola, Brazil, Burma, Cambodia, Colombia, Congo, Indonesia, Liberia, and the Philippines. In all of these countries, warlords and local elites- some with government support, some without- seek to dominate a particular mining or logging region and garner whatever revenues can be derived from its exploitation. Very often, this means driving off the people who have long inhabited the area or depriving them of any benefits from the appropriation of their traditional lands."

    What's worse, most, if not all of these conflicts are, according to much analysis and statistical data and resources within the book, supposed to come to a head before the year 2020.

    WTF. over.
  2. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Dec 28, 2001 Messages: 22,906 Likes Received: 113
    the current war(s) are (at least in part) over resources. the future is now
  3. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
    t: thats what i said
    t: i told sarah to tell her that she is choosing not to live here
    t: and she told her that
    d: yeah
    t: she said she's paying for me to live here
    d: no
  4. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    Re: Re: Resource Wars

    You only read the first sentence?
  5. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    i don't have much too add.....except this
    book might be similar to another i've read
    called 'the coming anarchy' in which the
    author touches on alot of similar things
    and speculates the world will rapidly become
    a big sierra leone. good times.
  6. ledzep

    ledzep Junior Member

    Joined: Feb 21, 2002 Messages: 146 Likes Received: 1
    wow. ever get the feeling the world is crumbling beneath your feet?
  7. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623

    water will be next.

    i took a class called "future studies" once and it defnitely talked about this..
    we studied a long U.N. report highlighting the depletion of natural resources and the conflicts that will arise out of trying to maintain possession and control over those resources.
  8. panic

    panic Member

    Joined: Apr 12, 2003 Messages: 459 Likes Received: 0
    I realize i may look like an idoit here, but after reading that all i could think about was this video game i used to love. it was called FALLOUT.
    its about a post-apocaliptic world, not unlike the 50's with mutants and other odd shit.
    as the story goes, the whole world is running out of resources like oil and the states tries to capatilize on it, and the nukes start flying.. the game starts 50 years after the bombing. it was fun, i say.
  9. 0RB1T0N3R

    0RB1T0N3R Senior Member

    Joined: Nov 23, 2003 Messages: 1,139 Likes Received: 8
    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
  10. KillWhitey

    KillWhitey Banned

    Joined: Jun 19, 2004 Messages: 228 Likes Received: 0
    I read resource wars too, about a year ago though.I read it for a class called World Political Economy. Im now a senior Poli. Sci. major. I wouldnt mind talking to you about this shit at all.

    About Resource Wars.
    The book didnt have any real real message in it, it was more like pointing out the different recources and the fights or future fights that are fought over them. Water I think was covered more than Petroleum, if i remember right. The Caspian Sea is also going to be a future battle gorund accordiing to Resource Wars cause Petroleum was found there like crazy, and its disputed water territory between like 5 former soviet coutnries including momma russia. Either way, the book didnt make me think that wars over recources are innevitable, i actually have faith in better diplomacy.
  11. Abracadabra

    Abracadabra Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Dec 28, 2001 Messages: 22,906 Likes Received: 113
    Re: Re: Re: Resource Wars

    doesn't everyone?