casekonly Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 US National ID Card Now A Certainty From Barry Steinhardt 5-6-5 Congressional passage of the "Real ID" legislation is now all but a done deal, House and Senate conferees having agreed to inclusion of language in an appropriations bill that is all but certain to pass. The name "Real ID" is, if anything, too modest. Despite deep public opposition over the years to a national identity card, and Congress's unwillingness to even consider the idea directly, our security agencies have now gotten what they want as proponents have succeeded in pushing through Congress a National ID-in-disguise. The "Real ID" Act Is Indeed A Real (National) ID. Although individual states' driver's licenses may continue to exhibit cosmetic differences, they will now contain a standardized set of information collected by all 50 states, which means that underneath each state's pretty designs they are really a single standardized national card - backed up not only by biometrics, but also by a standardized "machine-readable zone" and by a national database of ID information. Local DMV offices may continue to appear to be state offices, but they will now become agents acting on behalf of the federal government, charged with issuing a national identity document without which one will be unable to function in America. * National Database Creates Powerful Tracking Tool.* Real ID requires the states to link their databases together for the mutual sharing of data from these IDs. This is, in effect, a single seamless national database, available to all the states and to the federal government. (The fact that the database is a distributed one, maintained on interconnected servers in the separate states, makes no difference.) * National Database Creates Security Risks.* The creation of a single interlinked database creates a one-stop shop for identity thieves and terrorists who want to assume an American's identity. The security problems with creating concentrated databases has recently been demonstrated by the rampant number of data breaches in recent months in which information held by commercial database companies has fallen into the hands of identity thieves or others. The government's record at information security is little better and that is especially true at state Motor Vehicle Departments that have routinely been the targets of both insider and outsider fraud and just plain larceny. * The "Machine-Readable Zone" Paves The Way For Privator-Sector Piggybacking.* Our new IDs will have to make their data available through a "common machine-readable technology." That will make it easy for anybody in private industry to snap up the data on these IDs. Bars swiping licenses to collect personal data on customers will be just the tip of the iceberg as every retailer in America learns to grab that data and sell it to Choicepoint for a dime. It won't matter whether the states and federal government protect the data - it will be harvested by the private sector, which will keep it in a parallel database not subject even to the limited privacy rules in effect for the government. * This national ID card will make observation of citizens easy but won't do much about terrorism.* The fact Is, identity-based security is not an effective way to stop terrorism. ID documents do not reveal anything about evil intent - and even if they did, determined terrorists will always be able to obtain fraudulent documents (either counterfeit or real documents bought from corrupt officials). * Negotiated Rulemaking.* Among the any unfortunate effects of this legislation is that it pre-empts another process for considering standardized driver's licenses that was far superior. That process (set in motion by the Intelligence Reform Act of 2004) included a "negotiated rulemaking" among interested parties - including the states and civil liberties groups - to create standards. Instead, the worst form of rules is being imposed, with the details to be worked out by security officials at DHS instead of through balanced negotiations among affected parties. * "Your Papers, Please."* In the days after 9/11, President Bush and others proclaimed that we must not let the terrorists change American life. It is now clear that - despite its lack of effectiveness against actual terrorism - we have allowed our security agencies push us into making a deep, far-reaching change to the character of American life. Barry Steinhardt Director Technology and Liberty Project American Civil Liberties Union _________________________________________________________________ more on this discuss and ridicule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 "Our new IDs will have to make their data available through a "common machine-readable technology." That will make it easy for anybody in private industry to snap up the data on these IDs." Wow... how stupid. I guess that would make it easy to counterfeit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Quickwood Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 what biometric information are these things going to have? would a magnet fix the problem of retailers and other shit taking my information? thats what i want to know. also, i wonder if they're going to incorporate anything else into these cards that they aren't going to disclose, like RFID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 Originally posted by ARCEL@May 17 2005, 11:28 PM what biometric information are these things going to have? would a magnet fix the problem of retailers and other shit taking my information? thats what i want to know. also, i wonder if they're going to incorporate anything else into these cards that they aren't going to disclose, like RFID. Quoted post biometric probably refers to your eye pattern. no, a magnet will not help. they might arrest you for tampering with federal property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
railboxer Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 national id cards will NEver happen, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Originally posted by railboxer@May 19 2005, 02:22 PM national id cards will NEver happen, ever. Quoted post did you not read that? i has already passed in the senate. it's well on its way to happening.... that's the left hand key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalist Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 America has become a true fuckin police state. So this is how liberty ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 no fatalist...pretty soon we'll get bags of cookies and a gallon of milk in the mail. don't drink the milk. it's spoiled...mmmmcookies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalist Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 READING THIS SHIT AGAIN FUCKING PISSES ME OFF! this gay proposal is outrageous and a complete waste of public money. It has already been shown by a number of experts in the field that the planned overkill imposition will not work anyway. It will be subject to many "misreads" and errors for technical reasons. It will not achieve its purpose of preventing forged IDs. It will not prevent terrorism. It is in any case another example of the "politically correct" refusal to face what the current terrorism is really all about, and what is causing it, and what the only effective way of dealing with it would really be. I think that most more mature people would not object to the idea of ID cards in general, but it is the very nature of this planned imposition which is so offensive and abhorent. The very concept of everyone having by law to provide their finger prints even though they are not a criminal is offensive to most more mature people, who see this as yet one more significant step in the removal of the freedom of the individual which we used to have in this country, and the inexorable slide into a Police State and completely Totalitarian government. ID cards, OK they are probably necessary, but smart documents should be sufficient, not biometric overkill data, which is unreliable anyway. Make no mistake about it, this step is a very significant one towards the Mark of The Beast. The next stage will be biometric data held on a microchip which all "citizen prisioners" will be compelled to have injected irremovably into the flesh of their wrist or forehead! This will include your prisioner number, bank account numbers, tax code etc. Big brother will finally have closed the last vestige of any freedom which we used to have. FUCK THEM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneeightyone Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 national id cards already exist... Social Security. Those cards mean a shitload, if you dont have one you dont really exist in this country. other country's have national I.D. cards, this country has social security cards as the prime way of having "control" of the population. This bill is in my opinion brought up on the idea of the "terrorist" getting forged documents and getting into some heavy shit. But who it really effects is the Immigrants who are here and will not have another obstacle to face. When i say immigrant obviously everyone thinks "mexican" but that's not correct. In numbers the highest level of immigrants is chinese, hispanics, then followed by europeans. So this will effect them more then the regular citizen. Anybody that is from another country and is in the united states, legal, illegal. whatever, already knows the feeling of getting marked like a cow. For some reason i beleive a revolt coming. A powderkeg ready to blow. I think it's overreacting in lew of shitty information work in relation to any kind of real terrorist. pisses me off to another level. How to get around this hmmm and bio-metrics are Fingerprints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I won't be picking one of these up when they come out, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by railboxer@May 19 2005, 06:22 PM national id cards will NEver happen, ever. Quoted post Morrons like you... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1 Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by oneeightyone@May 20 2005, 12:33 AM For some reason i beleive a revolt coming. A powderkeg ready to blow. Quoted post Word! :hatred: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POIESIS Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 here's a cool tidbit for those who have faith.. there's this chinese philosopher who way way back in the 4th century or something noted that as societies come up with more devices of control, there is a measurable increase in 'crime'..essentially the more intense the culture of obedience and control, the higher the likelihood and number of dissidents. anyhow..this is straight up panopticon shit. nerds should check bentham and foucault on the panopticon tip. shit's amazing. also, biometrics is way beyond just fingerprints..it's biological characteristics that authenticate your identity..fingerprints, retina pattern, iris, hand geometry, vein patterns, voice password, signature dynamics, dna etcetry... tom ridge was just up here and one of the things he was pushing was biometrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Tesseract Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 We do have ID's in europe and it aint a thing, on the other hand we aint got Bush in charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted May 20, 2005 Author Share Posted May 20, 2005 http://www.mclars.com/fb/dick.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.T Boy Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 alot of countries already have national ids, it doeent seem to bother them. also, is this only on a drivers permit? if so, the soultion would be to not renew your permit.... or even get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POIESIS Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 it seems harmless, but it's the conjunction of all types of identifying tech..ala face recognition cameras surveilling public property etcetry.. you'll notice alot of this stuff passes into being without real public consent and under a guise of 'this is good for you, it will make you safer' blahblah. maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, nobody seems to know since there is barely any national discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Morrons :king: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted May 21, 2005 Author Share Posted May 21, 2005 you will br ARRESTED for not having your new real i.d. on you if anyone asks. ARRESTED. we can walk around without our drivers license or social security. not with real i.d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnomeToys Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 They practically arrest you now if you don't have an ID card on you. I'm fully planning on never getting one of these, no matter what the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casekonly Posted May 21, 2005 Author Share Posted May 21, 2005 same here gnometoys. i';m gonna vacation in amsterdam and try to find a temporary wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 This will piss off the exteme right AND the extreme left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelofdeath Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 ^^^ yup it will and is. and please guys lets be realistic, dont just blame bush, blame all of congress as well. democrats and republicans for this. there was NO OPPOSITION at all to this bill in the senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Rant rant, bitch, complain, vent vent, irrational statements and hollow threats, slowly winds down and sputters out. Goes to drink wine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTheBuilder. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 "When i say immigrant obviously everyone thinks "mexican" but that's not correct. In numbers the highest level of immigrants is chinese, hispanics, then followed by europeans. So this will effect them more then the regular citizen." Stop being such a fucking idiot. By immigrant no one means actually people who are immigrants. Its a clear reference to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. And YES, almost all of the illegal Immigrants are Mexican. Have you been to California? The state is a minority majority state and soon states like Texas etc. will follow. I'm personally not for or against these cards, they're just like communism, good on paper but a load of shit once put into effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robJ Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 fuck paper trails.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villain Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Originally posted by KaBar2@May 24 2005, 11:41 AM Rant rant, bitch, complain, vent vent, irrational statements and hollow threats, slowly winds down and sputters out. Goes to drink wine. Quoted post Has Kabar been smoking the wacky tobacky??? :stretch: :miamivice: :jpotato: :dozey: :umm: :dazed: :crazy: :loopy: :spin: :loopy2: :spin2: :disguised: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBar2 Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Nah, I quit smoking years ago. That stuff ruins your records---your Health Record, your arrest record, etc. Right now I'm having a glass of good old Texas red. Texas has a wine industry, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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