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'real i.d.' now a certainty

Discussion in 'News' started by casekonly, May 17, 2005.

  1. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    US National ID Card
    Now A Certainty
    From Barry Steinhardt

    Congressional passage of the "Real ID" legislation is now all but a done deal, House and Senate conferees having agreed to inclusion of language in an appropriations bill that is all but certain to pass.

    The name "Real ID" is, if anything, too modest. Despite deep public opposition over the years to a national identity card, and Congress's unwillingness to even consider the idea directly, our security agencies have now gotten what they want as proponents have succeeded in pushing through Congress a National ID-in-disguise.

    The "Real ID" Act Is Indeed A Real (National) ID.

    Although individual states' driver's licenses may continue to exhibit cosmetic differences, they will now contain a standardized set of information collected by all 50 states, which means that underneath each state's pretty designs they are really a single standardized national card - backed up not only by biometrics, but also by a standardized "machine-readable zone" and by a national database of ID information. Local DMV offices may continue to appear to be state offices, but they will now become agents acting on behalf of the federal government, charged with issuing a national identity document without which one will be unable to function in America.

    * National Database Creates Powerful Tracking Tool.*

    Real ID requires the states to link their databases together for the mutual sharing of data from these IDs. This is, in effect, a single seamless national database, available to all the states and to the federal government. (The fact that the database is a distributed one, maintained on interconnected servers in the separate states, makes no difference.)

    * National Database Creates Security Risks.*

    The creation of a single interlinked database creates a one-stop shop for identity thieves and terrorists who want to assume an American's identity. The security problems with creating concentrated databases has recently been demonstrated by the rampant number of data breaches in recent months in which information held by commercial database companies has fallen into the hands of identity thieves or others. The government's record at information security is little better and that is especially true at state Motor Vehicle Departments that have routinely been the targets of both insider and outsider fraud and just plain larceny.

    * The "Machine-Readable Zone" Paves The Way For Privator-Sector Piggybacking.*

    Our new IDs will have to make their data available through a "common machine-readable technology." That will make it easy for anybody in private industry to snap up the data on these IDs. Bars swiping licenses to collect personal data on customers will be just the tip of the iceberg as every retailer in America learns to grab that data and sell it to Choicepoint for a dime. It won't matter whether the states and federal government protect the data - it will be harvested by the private sector, which will keep it in a parallel database not subject even to the limited privacy rules in effect for the government.

    * This national ID card will make observation of citizens easy but won't do much about terrorism.*

    The fact Is, identity-based security is not an effective way to stop terrorism. ID documents do not reveal anything about evil intent - and even if they did, determined terrorists will always be able to obtain fraudulent documents (either counterfeit or real documents bought from corrupt officials).

    * Negotiated Rulemaking.*

    Among the any unfortunate effects of this legislation is that it pre-empts another process for considering standardized driver's licenses that was far superior. That process (set in motion by the Intelligence Reform Act of 2004) included a "negotiated rulemaking" among interested parties - including the states and civil liberties groups - to create standards. Instead, the worst form of rules is being imposed, with the details to be worked out by security officials at DHS instead of through balanced negotiations among affected parties.

    * "Your Papers, Please."*

    In the days after 9/11, President Bush and others proclaimed that we must not let the terrorists change American life. It is now clear that - despite its lack of effectiveness against actual terrorism - we have allowed our security agencies push us into making a deep, far-reaching change to the character of American life.

    Barry Steinhardt

    Director Technology and Liberty Project American Civil Liberties Union


    more on this

    discuss and ridicule.
  2. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    "Our new IDs will have to make their data available through a "common machine-readable technology." That will make it easy for anybody in private industry to snap up the data on these IDs."

    Wow... how stupid.
    I guess that would make it easy to counterfeit as well.
  3. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
    what biometric information are these things going to have? would a magnet fix the problem of retailers and other shit taking my information? thats what i want to know. also, i wonder if they're going to incorporate anything else into these cards that they aren't going to disclose, like RFID.
  4. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5

    biometric probably refers to your eye pattern. no, a magnet will not help. they might arrest you for tampering with federal property.
  5. railboxer

    railboxer Member

    Joined: Feb 20, 2001 Messages: 402 Likes Received: 0
    national id cards will NEver happen, ever.
  6. <KEY3>

    <KEY3> Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Messages: 6,878 Likes Received: 2
  7. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5

    did you not read that? i has already passed in the senate. it's well on its way to happening....

    that's the left hand key.
  8. fatalist

    fatalist Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Mar 10, 2004 Messages: 6,354 Likes Received: 25
    America has become a true fuckin police state.
    So this is how liberty ends?
  9. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    no fatalist...pretty soon we'll get bags of cookies and a gallon of milk in the mail. don't drink the milk. it's spoiled...mmmmcookies
  10. fatalist

    fatalist Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Mar 10, 2004 Messages: 6,354 Likes Received: 25
    READING THIS SHIT AGAIN FUCKING PISSES ME OFF! this gay proposal is outrageous and a complete waste of public money. It has already been shown by a number of experts in the field that the planned overkill imposition will not work anyway. It will be subject to many "misreads" and errors for technical reasons. It will not achieve its purpose of preventing forged IDs. It will not prevent terrorism. It is in any case another example of the "politically correct" refusal to face what the current terrorism is really all about, and what is causing it, and what the only effective way of dealing with it would really be.

    I think that most more mature people would not object to the idea of ID cards in general, but it is the very nature of this planned imposition which is so offensive and abhorent. The very concept of everyone having by law to provide their finger prints even though they are not a criminal is offensive to most more mature people, who see this as yet one more significant step in the removal of the freedom of the individual which we used to have in this country, and the inexorable slide into a Police State and completely Totalitarian government.

    ID cards, OK they are probably necessary, but smart documents should be sufficient, not biometric overkill data, which is unreliable anyway. Make no mistake about it, this step is a very significant one towards the Mark of The Beast. The next stage will be biometric data held on a microchip which all "citizen prisioners" will be compelled to have injected irremovably into the flesh of their wrist or forehead! This will include your prisioner number, bank account numbers, tax code etc. Big brother will finally have closed the last vestige of any freedom which we used to have. FUCK THEM!
  11. oneeightyone

    oneeightyone Senior Member

    Joined: May 23, 2003 Messages: 1,289 Likes Received: 0
    national id cards already exist... Social Security. Those cards mean a shitload, if you dont have one you dont really exist in this country. other country's have national I.D. cards, this country has social security cards as the prime way of having "control" of the population.

    This bill is in my opinion brought up on the idea of the "terrorist" getting forged documents and getting into some heavy shit. But who it really effects is the Immigrants who are here and will not have another obstacle to face.

    When i say immigrant obviously everyone thinks "mexican" but that's not correct. In numbers the highest level of immigrants is chinese, hispanics, then followed by europeans. So this will effect them more then the regular citizen.

    Anybody that is from another country and is in the united states, legal, illegal. whatever, already knows the feeling of getting marked like a cow.

    For some reason i beleive a revolt coming. A powderkeg ready to blow. I think it's overreacting in lew of shitty information work in relation to any kind of real terrorist.

    pisses me off to another level. How to get around this hmmm

    and bio-metrics are Fingerprints.
  12. GnomeToys

    GnomeToys Elite Member

    Joined: Jun 24, 2003 Messages: 2,616 Likes Received: 4
    I won't be picking one of these up when they come out, that's for sure.
  13. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    Morrons like you... :rolleyes:
  14. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5

    Word! :hatred:

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    here's a cool tidbit for those who have faith..
    there's this chinese philosopher who way way back in the 4th century or
    something noted that as societies come up with more devices of control,
    there is a measurable increase in 'crime'..essentially the more intense the
    culture of obedience and control, the higher the likelihood and number
    of dissidents.
    anyhow..this is straight up panopticon shit.
    nerds should check bentham and foucault on the panopticon tip. shit's amazing.
    also, biometrics is way beyond just fingerprints..it's biological characteristics that
    authenticate your identity..fingerprints, retina pattern, iris, hand geometry,
    vein patterns, voice password, signature dynamics, dna etcetry...
    tom ridge was just up here and one of the things he was pushing was biometrics.