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Proof Bush fixed the facts

Discussion in 'News' started by POIESIS, May 4, 2005.

  1. POIESIS

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    http://www.tompaine.com/20050505/articles/...d_the_facts.php

    not a surprise by any measure, but still pretty stunning.
     
  2. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    I hope this gets coverage. I'd be surprised if it does though.
     
  3. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    if it does, it will be discounted as propaganda from the left wing liberals.
    no doubt in my mind. i'd like to see more info like this come out, but i doubt much more will.

    p.s. this guy is gong to end up dead soon.
     
  4. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
  5. POIESIS

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    the whistleblower is just another notch in the
    record of a profoundly criminal clique of total scum that is virtually untouchable...
    my feeling is this will get fairly sufficient exposure, but may not become a news sensation..it's moot anyhow since scandals are a dime a dozen with these chumps; they have survived everything and are still steering. drunk.
     
  6. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    look, i told you i'm not a republican.
     
  7. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    look, i told you i'm not a republican.
    [post=3941743]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]

    :haha: :haha: Ok, you're one of them dudes that can edit your posts without it saying that it was edited at the bottom.
    Keep playing games dickhead.
     
  8. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    what the fuck are you talking about? editing my post? nope....someone get this cat a glass of water.
     
  9. <KEY3>

    <KEY3> Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Messages: 6,878 Likes Received: 2
    Everyone who knows the march to war is a sham already know it.
    The people who dont want to hear the facts, will keep their heads in the sand.
     
  10. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5

    it's funny that you say this: i usually like to explore an idea or a news story thoroughly, i like more proof than one man coming forward and saying ' i was this and that and i have these documents to prove that such and such'

    sure, we have proof that the various intelligence agencies lied about certain things, we have proof taht the bush administration lied about some things...especially colen powell and his presentation to the u.n. council...all this has been documented, but who is this ray mcgovern guy? i know it says he worked for 23 years, but was he disgruntled at all? was he retired in a normal fashion or was he forced out for some other reasons under the guise of retirement?

    don't get me wrong, i'm in no way siding with republicans or democrats,. i'd just like to know more. especially since i have no idea about this tompaine.com where the story originated from.
     
  11. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    ok, here's a bio of the mcgovern guy:

    Ray McGovern’s 27-year career as a CIA analyst spanned administrations from John F. Kennedy to George H. W. Bush. Ray is now co-director of the Servant Leadership School, which provides training and other support for those seeking ways to be in relationship with the marginalized poor. The School is one of ten Jubilee Ministries, not-for-profit organizations inspired by the ecumenical Church of the Saviour and established in an inner-city neighborhood in Washington, DC.

    The department Ray heads at the School deals with the biblical injunction to “speak truth to power,” and this, together with his experience in intelligence analysis, accounts for his various writings and media appearances over the past year. His focus dovetails nicely with the passage carved into the marble entrance to CIA Headquarters: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free”—the ethic mandating that CIA analysts were to “tell it like it is” without fear or favor.

    In January 2003, when it became clear that that ethic was in serious jeopardy, a handful of intelligence community alumni/ae, including Ray, created Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. VIPS now includes over 35 former professionals from CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Department of State’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Army Intelligence, the FBI, and the National Security Agency. VIPS’ first effort (of ten thus far) was a same-day critique of Secretary of State Colin Powell’s address to the UN on February 5.

    In addition to co-authoring some of VIPS’ issuances, Ray has published some 20 op-eds over the past year on intelligence-related issues. These have appeared in newspapers and journals around the country like The Birmingham News, The Boston Globe, The Christian Science Monitor, The Miami Herald, Die Sueddeutsche Zeitung, The International Herald Tribune, and Der Berliner Tagespiegel, for example.

    Over the past several months, he and his VIPS colleagues have made numerous TV, radio and lecture appearances in the US and Europe. They also have appeared in several recent video documentaries—notably, “Uncovered: the Whole Truth About the Iraq War” (Robert Greenwald) and “Break the Silence: Truth and Lies in the War on Terror” (John Pilger).

    Ray’s duties at CIA included chairing National Intelligence Estimates and preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB). These, the most authoritative genres of intelligence reporting, have been the focus of press reporting on “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq and on what the president was told before 9/11. During the mid-eighties, Ray was one of the senior analysts conducting early morning briefings of the PDB one-on-one with the Vice President, the Secretaries of State and Defense, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs.

    Ray received his B.A., summa cum laude, from Fordham College and was elected to Phi Beta Kappa. Designated a Distinguished Military Graduate, he was commissioned upon graduation and served as an infantry/intelligence officer in the US Army from 1962-64. Ray holds an M.A. in Russian Studies from Fordham University and a certificate in Theological Studies from Georgetown University. He is also a graduate of the Harvard Business School’s Advanced Management Program.

    At his retirement ceremony, Ray received the Intelligence Commendation Medal and a letter from then-president George H. W. Bush wishing him well in his transition to non-profit work in inner-city Washington. Ray served on the board of Bread for the City from 1989-94, the latter two years as president, before becoming co-director of the Servant Leadership School.

    A native New Yorker, he has been married to Rita Kennedy for 42 years; they have five children and six grandchildren.

    http://faculty.schreiner.edu/tomwells/ray_mcgovern_bio.htm

    _________________________________________________

    http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern06232003.html

    ok, from what i found on google, the biggest hits about mcgivern are from what some would call 'liberal media'. i guess it's our mission to pick out the b/s from the facts....as any intelligent person would know, democrats (what people are calling liberals these days) are just as bad as republicans about trying to sway stories their way. it's just natural in the political world to do such things. people always want their side to be the 'right' side. just a bunch of material to go over and a ton to think about.
     
  12. POIESIS

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    mcgovern's the man and a good writer to boot.
    i've seen him in those docs and he seems to me a real deal dude,
    plus i've read a ton of his op-eds, which are all on point.
    tompaine is a smart site as well.
    check for yourself and make up your own mind.
     
  13. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    yeah, just got done checking it out a couple of hours ago, seems to be of good intent and not slanted one way or the other.

    good stuff.
     
  14. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    I don't know if shit will happen in this country, as corrupted as it is already. Maybe if they took it to the Hague or something. They may not be able to do anything either but it would look awfully strange for a wanted international criminal to be president.

    I'm still waiting on this election fraud case. Waiting.... waiting...
    meanwhile the democrats with less testicular fortitude are talking about how they can "look more moderate" and "appeal to red states", causing the entire country, the whole political discourse, to move further to the right... Redacting years and years worth of social progress and protections, equal rights and all of those grand ideals that moved us to the left where we belong, in a sane, tolerant, egalitarian society... Giving in to this demagogery, however, that is the end of this country. Once the democrats are disembowled there will be no difference between the parties. We are already in a de facto one party country now.
     
  15. POIESIS

    POIESIS Member

    Joined: Aug 10, 2004 Messages: 879 Likes Received: 0
    http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=426&row=0

    IMPEACHMENT TIME: "FACTS WERE FIXED."
    Special to BuzzFlash
    Thursday, May 5, 2005
    E-Mail Article
    Printer Friendly Version
    By Greg Palast
    Here it is. The smoking gun. The memo that has "IMPEACH HIM" written all over it.
    The top-level government memo marked "SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL," dated eight months before Bush sent us into Iraq, following a closed meeting with the President, reads, "Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam through military action justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Read that again: "The intelligence and facts were being fixed...."
    For years, after each damning report on BBC TV, viewers inevitably ask me, "Isn't this grounds for impeachment?" -- vote rigging, a blind eye to terror and the bin Ladens before 9-11, and so on. Evil, stupidity and self-dealing are shameful but not impeachable. What's needed is a "high crime or misdemeanor."
    And if this ain't it, nothing is.
    The memo uncovered this week by the Times, goes on to describe an elaborate plan by George Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair to hoodwink the planet into supporting an attack on Iraq knowing full well the evidence for war was a phony.
    A conspiracy to commit serial fraud is, under federal law, racketeering. However, the Mob's schemes never cost so many lives.
    Here's more. "Bush had made up his mind to take military action. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran."
    Really? But Mr. Bush told us, "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
    A month ago, the Silberman-Robb Commission issued its report on WMD intelligence before the war, dismissing claims that Bush fixed the facts with this snooty, condescending conclusion written directly to the President, "After a thorough review, the Commission found no indication that the Intelligence Community distorted the evidence regarding Iraq's weapons."
    We now know the report was a bogus 618 pages of thick whitewash aimed to let Bush off the hook for his murderous mendacity.
    Read on: The invasion build-up was then set, says the memo, "beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections." Mission accomplished.
    You should parse the entire memo -- reprinted below -- and see if you can make it through its three pages without losing your lunch.
    Now sharp readers may note they didn't see this memo, in fact, printed in the New York Times. It wasn't. Rather, it was splashed across the front pages of the Times of LONDON on Monday.
    It has effectively finished the last, sorry remnants of Tony Blair's political career. (While his Labor Party will most assuredly win the elections Thursday, Prime Minister Blair is expected, possibly within months, to be shoved overboard in favor of his Chancellor of the Exchequer, a political execution which requires only a vote of the Labour party's members in Parliament.)
    But in the US, barely a word. The New York Times covers this hard evidence of Bush's fabrication of a casus belli as some "British" elections story. Apparently, our President's fraud isn't "news fit to print."
    My colleagues in the UK press have skewered Blair, digging out more incriminating memos, challenging the official government factoids and fibs. But in the US press … nada, bubkes, zilch. Bush fixed the facts and somehow that's a story for "over there."
    The Republicans impeached Bill Clinton over his cigar and Monica's affections. And the US media could print nothing else.
    Now, we have the stone, cold evidence of bending intelligence to sell us on death by the thousands, and neither a Republican Congress nor what is laughably called US journalism thought it worth a second look.
    My friend Daniel Ellsberg once said that what's good about the American people is that you have to lie to them. What's bad about Americans is that it's so easy to do.
    Greg Palast, former columnist for Britain's Guardian papers, is the author of the New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy.
    Subscribe to his columns at www.GregPalast.com Media requests to contact(at)gregpalast.com Permission to reprint with attribution granted.
    [Here it is - the secret smoking gun memo - discovered by the Times of London. - GP]
    SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL - UK EYES ONLY
    DAVID MANNING
    From: Matthew Rycroft
    Date: 23 July 2002
    S 195 /02
    cc: Defence Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney-General, Sir Richard Wilson, John Scarlett, Francis Richards, CDS, C, Jonathan Powell, Sally Morgan, Alastair Campbell
    IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER'S MEETING, 23 JULY
    Copy addressees and you met the Prime Minister on 23 July to discuss Iraq.
    This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents.
    John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the US. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.
    C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.
    CDS said that military planners would brief CENTCOM on 1-2 August, Rumsfeld on 3 August and Bush on 4 August.
    The two broad US options were:
    (a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 US troops, a short (72 hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).
    (b) Running Start. Use forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.
    The US saw the UK (and Kuwait) as essential, with basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus critical for either option. Turkey and other Gulf states were also important, but less vital. The three main options for UK involvement were:
    (i) Basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus, plus three SF squadrons.
    (ii) As above, with maritime and air assets in addition.
    (iii) As above, plus a land contribution of up to 40,000, perhaps with a discrete role in Northern Iraq entering from Turkey, tying down two Iraqi divisions.
    The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.
    The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.
    The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.
    The Prime Minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the UN inspectors. Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD. There were different strategies for dealing with Libya and Iran. If the political context were right, people would support regime change. The two key issues were whether the military plan worked and whether we had the political strategy to give the military plan the space to work.
    On the first, CDS said that we did not know yet if the US battleplan was workable. The military were continuing to ask lots of questions.
    For instance, what were the consequences, if Saddam used WMD on day one, or if Baghdad did not collapse and urban warfighting began? You said that Saddam could also use his WMD on Kuwait. Or on Israel, added the Defence Secretary.
    The Foreign Secretary thought the US would not go ahead with a military plan unless convinced that it was a winning strategy. On this, US and UK interests converged. But on the political strategy, there could be US/UK differences. Despite US resistance, we should explore discreetly the ultimatum. Saddam would continue to play hard-ball with the UN.
    John Scarlett assessed that Saddam would allow the inspectors back in only when he thought the threat of military action was real.
    The Defence Secretary said that if the Prime Minister wanted UK military involvement, he would need to decide this early. He cautioned that many in the US did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route. It would be important for the Prime Minister to set out the political context to Bush.
    Conclusions:
    (a) We should work on the assumption that the UK would take part in any military action. But we needed a fuller picture of US planning before we could take any firm decisions. CDS should tell the US military that we were considering a range of options.
    (b) The Prime Minister would revert on the question of whether funds could be spent in preparation for this operation.
    &copy; CDS would send the Prime Minister full details of the proposed military campaign and possible UK contributions by the end of the week.
    (d) The Foreign Secretary would send the Prime Minister the background on the UN inspectors, and discreetly work up the ultimatum to Saddam.
    He would also send the Prime Minister advice on the positions of countries in the region especially Turkey, and of the key EU member states.
    (e) John Scarlett would send the Prime Minister a full intelligence update.
    (f) We must not ignore the legal issues: the Attorney-General would consider legal advice with FCO/MOD legal advisers.
    (I have written separately to commission this follow-up work.)
    MATTHEW RYCROFT
    (Rycroft was a Downing Street foreign policy aide)
     
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