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Outrage over Iraqi prison torture (Combined)


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Yeah, sick

 

Do you guys remember way back when the invasion of Afghanistan started, and I said that any al-Quaida guerrillas captured would talk, one way or another? Do you remember when I said that that flight from Afghanistan to Guantanamo Bay in a C-130, chained to the deck, was a looong flight across the Atlantic? You don't suppose they "lost" any prisoners over the tailgate ramp, do ya?

 

Do you remember when I said that the CIA and Delta Force and the Special Forces were probably smoking al-Quaida guerrillas in cafe's and coffee shops in cities all over the world?

 

I'd say these guys are really fucking sorry they ever fucked with the United States. But at least they are still alive, and if they know what's good for them, they will sing like canaries. And if they won't, I hope they can swim, cause it's a long way back.

 

You guys are always talking about "gangsta this" and "gangsta that."

 

Well THIS is the real deal. Anybody that fucks with us will profoundly regret it. That's REAL gangsta, not some pretend bad ass poseur in a low-rider Buick.

 

You want to see "hard?" This ^^^ is hard. "NO MERCY." Believe it.

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Originally posted by PalestineOne

KaBar is nothing more than a hobo, in all its definitions

 

Why are all of your posts one sentence? Maybe two if you're lucky. On one thread you even continued the second sentence on the next post. I guess you didn't want to jeapordize your one-sentence "traditon."

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Guest imported_Tesseract

Re: Yeah, sick

 

Originally posted by KaBar2

Do you guys remember way back when the invasion of Afghanistan started, and I said that any al-Quaida guerrillas captured would talk, one way or another? Do you remember when I said that that flight from Afghanistan to Guantanamo Bay in a C-130, chained to the deck, was a looong flight across the Atlantic? You don't suppose they "lost" any prisoners over the tailgate ramp, do ya?

 

Do you remember when I said that the CIA and Delta Force and the Special Forces were probably smoking al-Quaida guerrillas in cafe's and coffee shops in cities all over the world?

 

I'd say these guys are really fucking sorry they ever fucked with the United States. But at least they are still alive, and if they know what's good for them, they will sing like canaries. And if they won't, I hope they can swim, cause it's a long way back.

 

You guys are always talking about "gangsta this" and "gangsta that."

 

Well THIS is the real deal. Anybody that fucks with us will profoundly regret it. That's REAL gangsta, not some pretend bad ass poseur in a low-rider Buick.

 

You want to see "hard?" This ^^^ is hard. "NO MERCY." Believe it.

 

I never doubted this kind of shit was taking place and it definatelly doesnt surprise me that you're so fond of the whole thing.

So whats your bet? are these the masterminds behind terrorist attacks on US soil? Are these the people that refuse to have their country run by you guys? or are they a random pick from the hundreds of people that are locked up in these fine facilities for any reason whatsoever?

 

Anyway, so what makes the US troops any different than Saddam down there right now? Is this your idea of liberating a country and dont you find it funny how the US uses all the international human right treaties as an excuse to go to war so your troops can violate them?

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My bet is that the female general in charge of this prison was a poor officer, and nobody under her command had any respect for the regulations about guarding prisoners. More than likely, the prisoners were difficult to manage as well as arrogant. And more than likely, that just fueled the desire on the part of the soldiers guarding them to break their will by whatever means.

 

You're wrong when you insinuate that I condone this sort of brutality. I do not condone it, and especially not if the Iraqis in these photographs were regular Iraqi troops. However, what is absolutely true, and what you will not or cannot acknowledge is that the Iraqi government, the Baath Party and the Sunni ruling class in general is composed of the moral equivalent of the Nazi Party.

 

So U.S. troops humiliated a bunch of S.S. guards and stormtroopers.

 

It's not right, and should not have happened. Maybe if they had surrendered immediately and 'fessed up during interrogation they would be back home with their families now. But instead, I suspect they copped an attitude, thinking that the Americans are all a bunch of weak, soft pussies incapable of beating the ever-loving shit out of some smart-ass Iraqi secret police agent, and that they could be disrespectful and oppositional and that "there ain't nothing you can do about it."

 

Guess again.

 

The guards should have known better than to risk prosecution for their stupid brutality, and were even stupider for allowing anybody to film it. On the other hand, the trials may just be for show, so the CIA can say they cleaned up the problem. Most likely, this brutality was a free-lance deal, because people who have been seriously interrogated by the CIA do not show up on CNN, or anywhere else, for that matter. These soldiers were stupid, and they will probably go to prison for it.

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Whatever Kabar2 you`re an asshole for defending this crap. They probably did nothing to deserve this abuse. Putting people in solitary is cruel enough. This is all about soldiers with small penises, that "woman" included. Imagine Iraq was the superpower and they were doing this to your son. America can expect years and years of tough Iraqis killing Americans for abuses like this. No it`s not Gangsta.This is weakness.

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Originally posted by HYDRO BILL

Whatever Kabar2 you`re an asshole for defending this crap. They probably did nothing to deserve this abuse. Putting people in solitary is cruel enough. This is all about soldiers with small penises, that "woman" included. Imagine Iraq was the superpower and they were doing this to your son. America can expect years and years of tough Iraqis killing Americans for abuses like this. No it`s not Gangsta.This is weakness.

 

 

To Tesserect and HYDRO: Obviously this is wrong, but it isn't fair to accuse *America* or the US armed forces as a whole for this. This was not under any type of "order" or approval of the US Army. It was merely a few troops that took matters into their own hands. That's why the US was outraged and acted accordingly, as all of the troops involved will be court-martialed, lose all military benefits and will spend time in prison.

 

Also HYDRO, Iraqi insurgents as well as Iraqi conventional army have violated the Geneva Conventions as well as the treatment of US prisoners far worse than making men lay naked on each other.

 

Another thing, why do you say that putting prisoners in solitary confinement is "cruel". Do you fail to realize that these are prisoners? Many countries, Iraq included, use torture and even kill prisoners. It's just that there's higher expectations for the US, so when someone looks at somebody the wrong way all of a sudden you're outraged. But Iraq can maim prisoners and you just turn the other cheek.

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I said cruel enough (ie. appropriate). Fuck, I know it`s war but seriously, these are the idiots who photograph themselves. how many assholes do this shit without any punishment?

 

And Kabar2 saying that it was because the commander was female is bullshit too. Listen, the Canadian army made Somalians do push-ups into shit, wrote `nigger` on somalians backs`with shit, and killed a kid and posed with his dead body. Unfortunately, as I am sure you can attest to, a lot of loonies want to join the army so they can get shiny guns and kill people. (Thanks for your reply about why most people join the army in that other thread- very interseting). You are right, we do expect more of countries like the USA, and so we should. But if you launch an illegal invasion of another country you should expect guerrila warfare. No, that doesn`t justify using these same tactics. Yes, you should turn the other cheek. After all you are a Christian country right? You have to be squeaky clean, un-emotional and detached. I think that American soldiers are comitting war crimes out of frustration with their lying administration and bleak future in Iraq- understandable.

PS. If I `Looked at you the wrong way` aka. made you pretend to suck a cock and wrote shit on you, would you be happy about it? Remember, this is the shit that made it to film. Without the film, no scandal.

Whatever, all I am saying is this is extremely poorly timed and expect an Iraqi backlash.

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Outrage over Iraqi prison torture

 

Taken from kos:

 

We've lost the battle for hearts and minds.

Photos of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners drew international condemnation on Friday, prompting the stark conclusion that the U.S. campaign to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis is a lost cause.

 

"This is the straw that broke the camel's back for America," said Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the Arab newspaper Al Quds Al Arabi. "The liberators are worse than the dictators."

 

"They have not just lost the hearts and minds of Iraqis but all the Third World and the Arab countries," he told Reuters.

 

The CBS News program "60 Minutes II" on Wednesday broadcast photos taken at the Abu Ghraib prison late last year showing American troops abusing some Iraqis held at what was once a notorious center of torture and executions under toppled President Saddam Hussein.

 

The pictures showed U.S. troops smiling, posing, laughing or giving the thumbs-up sign as naked, male Iraqi prisoners were stacked in a pyramid or positioned to simulate sex acts with one another.

 

Britain has been America's staunchest ally in Iraq (news - web sites) but alarm has spread over strong-arm U.S tactics, support for Prime Minister Tony Blair has plummeted and the pictures were widely condemned on Thursday.

 

"When it comes to winning hearts and minds, the U.S. Army hasn't got a clue," wrote the Daily Mirror tabloid, one of several British papers to splash the photos on its front page.

 

This is upsetting on so many levels. One, it smears every American in Iraq, where the vast majority of our men and women in uniform are noble, brave, kind-hearted people. They are not there because they choose to be there, they are there because Bush ordered them there. Yet their reputation is being besmirched by these lunatic asshole at the Abu Ghraib prison.

 

Two, it fuels Iraqi and worldwide perception that the US is no better than Saddam. That is NOT true. In theory. In practice, the Iraqi people have seen none of the "freedoms" promised by Bush's rhetoric. There is no Democracy. Their press gets shut down for criticizing the CPA. Their electricity is even less reliable now than under Saddam. Crime is up. Safety is down. The US is killing thousands of Shiites and Sunnis.

 

And now, we find out that work in Saddam's torture chambers continue unabated. It's revolting. There's one clear way we can show the world we are not like Saddam -- the perpetrators of these injustices need to be brought to trial quickly, and meted the sort of punishment that Saddam's torturers would never have gotten.

 

And finally, it's just yet another example that merceneraries are the scum of the planet. Indications are that mercs ran the prison and had a role in the abuses at the prison. Yet they cannot be punished under military law. Again, lawless mercenaries are complicating our occupation and attempts to rebuild Iraq. Anyone who defends mercenaries hates our troops. Plain and simple. The actions of those mercenaries have been getting our soldiers killed. And now, they have guaranteed the loss of our battle for the hearts and minds of Iraq's people.

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

From the Guardian:

Graphic photographs showing the torture and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners in a US-run prison outside Baghdad emerged yesterday from a military inquiry which has left six soldiers facing a possible court martial and a general under investigation. The scandal has also brought to light the growing and largely unregulated role of private contractors in the interrogation of detainees.

 

According to lawyers for some of the soldiers, they claimed to be acting in part under the instruction of mercenary interrogators hired by the Pentagon.

 

[..snip..]

 

Lawyers for the soldiers argue they are being made scapegoats for a rogue military prison system in which mercenaries give orders without legal accountability.

 

A military report into the Abu Ghraib case - parts of which were made available to the Guardian - makes it clear that private contractors were supervising interrogations in the prison, which was notorious for torture and executions under Saddam Hussein.

 

One civilian contractor was accused of raping a young, male prisoner but has not been charged because military law has no jurisdiction over him.

 

[..snip..]

 

"It's insanity," said Robert Baer, a former CIA agent, who has examined the case, and is concerned about the private contractors' free-ranging role. "These are rank amateurs and there is no legally binding law on these guys as far as I could tell. Why did they let them in the prison?"

 

 

 

 

 

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The prisoner standing on the box was told that if he fell off he would be electrocuted.

 

 

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http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/mirror/apr2004/6/0/000EE316-F2E5-1091-8AB280C328EC0000.jpg'>

 

 

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While I'm sure a few will say, "fuck 'em .. they get what they deserve for fighting against us" ... remember that these pictures are going to be broadcast over Al Jazeera for a looong time. This is only going to raise the level of hatred the Iraqis hold for US troops, and will likely result in an increased number of US deaths.

 

While stating we are their liberators, we act no better than Saddam [in this situation]. We continue the horrors of torture and rape rooms and were supposed reasons we freed the Iraqis from their brutal dictator. As a guy in the first article I quoted stated, "[The US] have not just lost the hearts and minds of Iraqis but all the Third World and the Arab countries."

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holy shit.... it's like sending pro wrestlers to a diplomacy summit... entirely wrong!

 

grrr.... kind of gives a little justification to the John Walker Lindt types out there who fight against their own country.

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i find it curious that kabar was defending mercinaries, and talking about how they were above the law, because they are not part of our military. but then he was condemning the iraqi's resisting us, claiming they are violating the geneva convention because they do not wear uniforms(!!!!). what's more of a violation, hiring a third party to do your dirty work for you, knowing they can't be punished, or only having one fucking set of clothes to live, sleep, and die in?

 

to be honest, i'm not even that outraged at the 'torture', most of which seems to be minor, which our troops carried out, but i am at the fact that they were so fucking stupid that they didnt realize the actions of a handful of people could possibly crippled this entire operation, and will undoubtedly cost hundreds, if nto possibly thousands more american lives because it will ignite a fire in anyone sitting on the fence of anti-american sentiment. it's easy for us to see the picture of lt. whatever his name is, and say 'oh, well it's bullshit, it's just photoshopped', but then we expect a whole region, that has absolutely no idea that photoshop even exists, that it's not true. they live in a world where they don't realize you can only believe half of what you see, so all they see is reinforcement of every bad thing being said about us. as punishment, those guys shouldnt be court marshalled, they should be forced to work in the morgue for the next 5 years, writing letters to the family members of those killed, explaining how actions like theres helped destroy the 'peace' process.

 

think about the american outrage when iraqi soldiers were pretending to surrender, then shot at our troops. every football playing senior in america was ready to enlist. now imagine if instead of shooting our soldiers, they stripped them naked and mocked them. humiliation is far worse than death to most people, especially to people over there, where dying is so common place.

 

 

sorry cilone, my conscience just wont let me keep it under a paragraph.

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http://www.ogrish.com/view_attachment.php?id=15855'>

 

Americans are such savages. Making them

simulate gay acts for photographs... cowards.

 

Hopefully this does enrage the Iraq people to

fight back that much harder. We saw contractors

murdered, burnt, and strung from bridges how

long ago? Are the American people up in arms

fanning the flames of hate for a few radical's

actions? I don't think so.

 

Hug a liberal.

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