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OKC Bombing: The Truth Gets Executed

Discussion in 'News' started by [email protected]#$%, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    Terry Nichols is only a few weeks from [likely] being sentenced to death for about 161 counts of homicide in the OKC bombing 9 years ago..there is mounting evidence that nichols and mcveigh were not the only people responsible [sarcasm]what a shock![/sarcasm]

    ..there was supposedly a videotape, the secret service is saying it never existed..

    Documents cite mystery video in Oklahoma City bombing
    WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Secret Service document written shortly after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing described security video footage of the attack and witness testimony that suggested Timothy McVeigh may have had accomplices at the scene.

    "Security video tapes from the area show the truck detonation 3 minutes and 6 seconds after the suspects exited the truck," the Secret Service reported six days after the attack on a log of agents' activities and evidence in the Oklahoma investigation.

    The government has insisted McVeigh drove the truck himself and that it never had any video of the bombing or the scene of the Alfred P. Murrah building in the minutes before the April 19, 1995, explosion. ..........

    Other documents obtained by AP show the Secret Service in late 1995 gave prosecutors several computer disks of enhanced digital photographs of the Murrah building, intelligence files on several subjects in the investigation and a file detailing an internal affairs inquiry concerning an agent who reconstructed key phone evidence against McVeigh.

    "These abstract sheets are sensitive documents which we have protected from disclosure in the past," said a Secret Service letter that recounted discussions in late 1995 with federal prosecutors on what evidence would be turned over to defense lawyers.

    Lawyers for Nichols say they have never been given the security video, photo disks or internal investigative file referenced in the documents.

    The trial judge has threatened to dismiss the death penalty case if evidence was withheld. McVeigh was executed in 2001 on a separate federal conviction. Nichols was sentenced to life in prison on federal charges before being tried by the state this year.

    The government has maintained for years that McVeigh parked the Ryder rental truck carrying a massive fertilizer bomb outside the Murrah building and left alone in a getaway car he parked around the corner. The bombing killed more than 160 people.

    The only video prosecutors introduced at trial showed the Ryder truck without any visible passengers as it passed a security camera inside a high-rise apartment building a block away from the Murrah building.

    But the Secret Service log reported on April 24 and April 25, 1995, that there was security footage showing the Ryder truck pulling up to the Murrah building. The log does not say where such video came from or who possessed it.

    A log entry on April 25 states that the security footage allowed agents to determine the time that elapsed between suspects leaving the truck and the explosion.

    An entry a day earlier on the same log reported that the security video was consistent with a witness' account that he saw McVeigh's getaway car in the lead before a woman guided the truck to its final parking spot in front of the Murrah building.

    "A witness to the explosion named Grossman claimed to have seen a pale yellow Mercury car with a Ryder truck behind it pulling up to the federal building," the log said. The witness "further claimed to have seen a woman on the corner waving to the truck."

    A Secret Service agent named McNally "noted that this fact is significant due to the fact that the security video shows the Ryder truck pulling up to the Federal Building and then pausing (7 to 10 seconds) before resuming into the slot in front of the building," the log said. "It is speculated that the woman was signaling the truck when a slot became available."

    Defenbaugh said the FBI had talked to several witnesses suggesting two people had left the truck, but prosecutors never introduced the scenario at trial because it couldn't be corroborated. That's why a new security video would be significant, he said.

    "It would have taken the investigation in a very specific direction," Defenbaugh said. "Rather than having to go down an eight-lane highway during rush hour, we would have gone down a faster path with just two or four lanes."

    In addition to the witness mentioned in the Secret Service document, a woman working in Murrah's Social Security office who was rescued from the rubble and a driver outside the building both reported to the FBI seeing two men leave the truck, according to government documents.

    The Secret Service log contained other information about the case -- including that McVeigh made 30 calls to an Illinois gun dealer in the months before the attacks to seek dynamite and that the gun dealer subsequently failed a lie detector test. The Secret Service lost six employees in McVeigh's bombing, the single largest loss in agency history.

    Nichols' attorneys last week asked the judge to dismiss the case on grounds the government withheld evidence, including the security video footage.

    New documents obtained by AP show the Secret Service provided prosecutors other evidence that may not have been provided to defense lawyers, including a file showing the Secret Service agent who reconstructed crucial phone evidence against McVeigh was subjected to an internal affairs investigation and eventually cleared for her conduct in the case.

    FBI officials say that file details allegations the agent wrongly collected grand jury-subpoenaed phone information about McVeigh's calls without FBI knowledge, and kept it for weeks while she produced analysis that helped the investigation.

    The internal investigation caused complications for prosecutors. They decided it tainted the agent as a witness and they chose instead to hire an outside expert to re-do the phone analysis for trial, officials said.

    Bopp said the Secret Service did nothing wrong.

    "The Secret Service worked cooperatively with the FBI and other federal state and local law enforcement throughout the investigation," Bopp said. "The expertise of the Secret Service on electronic crimes and telecommunications provided unique and timely information to the ongoing investigation."

    and the money trail...
    Gun collector describes robbery that allegedly financed Oklahoma City bombing
    By Tim Talley
    2:49 p.m. April 14, 2004

    McALESTER, Okla. – A gun collector testified Wednesday that a man wearing a ski mask and military-style clothing bound him and covered his eyes with duct tape during a robbery that prosecutors say financed the Oklahoma City bombing. A D V E R T I S E M E N T

    Roger E. Moore testified at bombing conspirator Terry Nichols' state murder trial that the gunman took dozens of rifles and handguns, $8,700 in cash, and coins and jewels in the 1994 robbery at his home near Hot Springs, Ark.

    Moore said he could not identify the gunman but is convinced he was not executed bomber Timothy McVeigh, who had stayed with Moore several times. The gunman was shorter and stockier than McVeigh and had darker skin, he said.

    and this insanity...

    '3rd Terrorist' soars to No. 11 on Amazon
    Book lays out Iraq, al-Qaida connection to OKC bombing
    Posted: April 19, 2004
    3:00 p.m. Eastern

    On the ninth anniversary of the terrorist attack on the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, a new book describing a Middle East connection to the crime has soared to No. 11 on Amazon.com's best-sellers list.

    In her new book, "The Third Terrorist: The Middle Eastern Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing," published by WND Books, investigative reporter Jayna Davis sets out a disturbing scenario of law-enforcement failures and suggests the Sept. 11 attacks possibly could have been prevented if evidence of an Iraqi and al-Qaida link to OKC had been pursued.

    Davis documents a compelling body of evidence that illustrates how Iraqi intelligence agents infiltrated the United States to recruit and assist executed murderer Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols in the April 19, 1995, bombing – evidence the FBI refused to receive from Davis and investigate in 1997. Among the many revelations are court records that suggest one of McVeigh's and Nichols's accused Middle Eastern handlers had foreknowledge of the 9-11 plot.

    ok kids..
    who cares?
  2. <KEY3>

    <KEY3> Veteran Member

    Joined: Mar 24, 2004 Messages: 6,878 Likes Received: 2

    the secret service is keeping secrets?
  3. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    it's been awhile since i familiarised myself with that
    whole sketchy event. i read the first article yesterday, and my
    immediate feeling was...hmm...then i wondered about
    how originally there were supposedly dark skinned men
    involved, which then became dreaded and hated iraqi's at
    some point..where did that info come from?
    maybe my memory is failing me on this..
    whatever happened, the vaults need to be wrenched
    open on it. stinks like waco.
  4. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    I don't understand why this is coming out now. 10 years later. Some kind of terrorist craze. Exactly where the hell did this info come from? Sounds ridiculous to me. Connection to Iraqis AND al queda? Fucking sounds stupid to me. Terry and Tim are some fucking redneck nazi militia men and that's it. Just because all of the above hate the government does not necessarily mean they are working together.
  5. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    it's getting a ton of attention because the government's ONLY other suspect is about to be sentenced to DEATH...

    mcveigh and nichols ARE/were redneck dimwit nazis..
    excetly why i have never believed they could have pulled it off alone.
    NO WAY.
    they were too dumb.

    as for the middle east connection, i agree, and i mentioned in the first post, it seems retarded...

    but i have heard plenty in the years since the bombing about mcveigh's death row confessionals to other inmates about not being solely responsible, i have also read that there are supremacy groups who are suspect..

    that's a lot of dead innocent people
    including children
    these questions should be answered, and the only way they will be is if people make noise.
  6. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    the whole idea of how a fertilizer bomb from a truck
    makes the kind of outward explosion is still beyond
    my basic grasp of physics.
  7. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    i don't know a lot about physical chemistry.

    but, when you have a massive amount of energy released suddenly due to a chemical reaction, you create an explosion..

    that's part of the reason the bomb was so big, it wasn't a highly efficient release of energy, like what you might see in a nuclear weapon, or even tnt for that matter..

    TNT explosions have to do with the energy released when the benzene ring is busted..it's a ridiculously stable structure, so when you attach three nitrile groups to it, also with very powerful bond structures, you get a lot of energy, both heat and light, released when the thing is broken apart..

    i'm not sure how fertilizer combusts, but i'm thinking it's along the same lines of breaking powerful nitrogen bonds..

    i also know that the physics of explosions is not entirely understood..yet.
  8. !@#$%

    [email protected]#$% Moderator Crew

    Joined: Oct 1, 2002 Messages: 18,517 Likes Received: 623
    here's a conspiracy theory website that says that no way could it have only been a fertilizer bomb, and claims to have quotes from a retired military general who agreed..


    oh shit...
    this website doesa better job of refuting the fertilizer theory..


    an excerpt:

    The Khobar Towers terrorist bombing on 25 June 1996, a cold-blooded act of murder, was a tragic and costly event of unprecedented magnitude, involving a high degree of sophistication. It was an act of war where terrorists detonated a bomb with an estimated likely yield of more than 20,000 pounds of TNT-equivalent explosivesoutside the fence of the American occupied sector of Khobar Towers. The explosion killed 19 service members and injured hundreds more. It also injured many Saudi Arabian citizens and third country nationals (TCNs) and severely damaged or destroyed a significant amount of property. This was the second bombing in Saudi Arabia in less than a year, a country where tens of thousands of Americans had lived safely for decades prior to these attacks.

    the khobar towers:

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the force exerted by an unshaped charge is inversely proportional to the SQUARE of the distance, and therefore it is simply impossible for a fertilizer bomb outside the building to have severed three or four columns. That's why there must have been another three or four bombs, presumably strapped to the support columns in the basement. Nothing else could have severed the rebar and pulverized the concrete, which is what brought the building down.
  9. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    I think McVeigh and Nichols were capable of that. One of them was actually an explosives expert in the army. Besides that if you live in michigan they practically issue the anarchist cookbook to you. I believe the fertilizer is nitrogen based. I think the other major component of the bomb was a rocket fuel. Which alot of the muscle heads in michigan like to put in their muscle cars. Maybe JC5 ( I think that's what it's called). I think this is propaganda from the psychological operations branch of the department of homeland security or something. As if they need more power. They killed McVeigh without this much controversy. And he was considered the leader.

    * the website noted above fails to account for pressure which is fundamental in explosives.
  10. BROWNer

    BROWNer Guest

    villain, i found this>
    the eglin blast effects study
    i'm not really able to discern if it's bullshit or not..
    maybe you army dudes can..
    the info is from a pretty heavily biased web source as well..
  11. Telo

    Telo Elite Member

    Joined: Jun 3, 2003 Messages: 4,164 Likes Received: 37
    All i have to say is this.. Look at how the building crumbled to the ground and rearrange your cards.
  12. Gunm

    Gunm Banned

    Joined: Aug 31, 2003 Messages: 12,427 Likes Received: 2

  13. High Priest

    High Priest Elite Member

    Joined: Jan 1, 2002 Messages: 4,928 Likes Received: 4

    white people..fucking suck.
  14. avils

    avils Senior Member

    Joined: Jul 26, 2001 Messages: 1,574 Likes Received: 0
    this shit is like some arlington road type shit.
  15. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
    Nazis? I've never read anything indicating they were inclined like that. Also, McVeigh was no dimwit, read some stuff he wrote while in prison.