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NYC Subways

Discussion in 'Third Rail' started by Fr8fiend, May 23, 2006.

  1. Fr8fiend

    Fr8fiend New Jack

    Joined: Mar 16, 2004 Messages: 15 Likes Received: 0
    Just found this on the NY Times website - -

    With $25 Million, M.T.A. Plans a New War on Subway Graffiti
    Published: May 23, 2006

    Adopting a drastic measure that recalled battles against subway graffiti from the 1970's and 80's, transit officials yesterday said they planned to spend $25 million to replace the windows in about 5,000 cars that are vulnerable to being indelibly marred by graffiti vandals using knives or etching acid.

    A senior police official, appearing before the committee of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority that oversees the subways, attributed the recent surge in graffiti to competing gangs seeking to deface or "tag" subway cars with their symbols.

    "This is an underworld, a segment of society that doesn't see this as a crime," said the official, Chief James P. Hall, the commander of the police transit bureau.

    Although most of the vandalism is being committed by New Yorkers, he said, it has taken on a global dimension with vandals from as far away as Europe having been caught putting their tags on subway car exteriors, and photographing their handiwork as a memento of their vacation.

    Transit officials described the planned investment in windows as a partial solution. The replacements would resemble windows already in use in the newest of the system's 6,200 subway cars, which are coated with Mylar, a resilient polyester that can be peeled off and replaced when damaged by graffiti, keeping the glass underneath clean.

    The protective coating is necessary because, unlike spray paint, scratches and acid-based graffiti are impossible to remove. "The battle is lost" once the windows are damaged, said Michael Lombardi, senior vice president for subways of New York City Transit, a division of the authority.

    Some transit officials said the plan did not go far enough, and urged the authority to consider more vigilant steps, like equipping trains with cameras to capture vandals in action.

    The chairman of the transit committee, Barry Feinstein, said the authority should hire security guards for each of its depots and storage yards to supplement the work of the police and to keep vandals out.

    "This becomes a contest" among vandals, he said. "We need to get our arms around this, and from what I am hearing, we are not."

    Mr. Lombardi said $25 million would be included in a proposed 2007 budget that the authority is to consider later this year. If approved, he said, $10 million will be spent to buy and install the new windows and $5 million will be used annually for three years to remove graffiti.

    Chief Hall's description of gangs trying to outdo one another in defacing subway cars was reminiscent of the 1970's and 80's, when the subways were coated in painted graffiti, offering a symbol of a city run amok. Although the current surge is not as pervasive, graffiti applied with knives and acid is more destructive.

    And, Chief Hall added, policing the problem is just as difficult today as it was in the past. Vandals armed with knives or etching acid can deface a subway window "in under 10 seconds, and make their exit," he said, and those using spray paint often make their mark after midnight, sneaking into tunnels or storage yards.

    Mr. Lombardi said he could not provide an estimate as to how much the transit agency was spending to remove scratches or acid-based graffiti from windows. But for now, he said, only windows that are defaced with profanity or racial epithets are replaced, leaving the scratches and acid scrawls.

    In some cases, train cars that have been marred by a large amount of graffiti are taken out of service for hours of repairs, leading to service disruptions, Mr. Lombardi said. He said the number of such major graffiti attacks, which require at least eight hours of work in terminals, had nearly doubled last year, to 101, from 52 in 2004. So far this year, there have been 72 similar cases, he said.

    While graffiti arrests in the subway system declined last year, to 110, from 149 in 2004, they have surged so far this year to 122, according to police records.

    Under a city law that went into effect this year, etching acid, typically used by artists who work in glass, cannot be sold to people under 21. Chief Hall said that in a recent undercover investigation a 17-year-old had not been able to buy the acid at several stores, but that many young vandals arrested for graffiti vandalism had easily bought the acid on the Internet.

    New York City Transit officials said they had security guards assigned to several subway depots and yards, but declined to respond yesterday to Mr. Feinstein's proposal about hiring more to protect subways from vandals.

    The officials said that the proposal to put cameras in subway cars was already under consideration and that discussions were under way with several companies that manufacture video monitors. But they said it was too early to say how many of the cameras would be used in subway cars, or when.

    The transit agency has budgeted $25 million to put cameras in hundreds of buses and at the entrances of about 60 subway stations, but subway trains are not included in that plan.
  2. showe

    showe New Jack

    Joined: May 26, 2006 Messages: 7 Likes Received: 0
    What aload of bull, graff is here to stay in NY people are gunna have to get used to it

    a guy i know says, cameras will not stop graffiti, they will just lower the quality of that produced

    SHAUN RFC Senior Member

    Joined: Jan 27, 2004 Messages: 1,979 Likes Received: 0
  4. ihavethebubonicplague

    ihavethebubonicplague New Jack

    Joined: May 11, 2006 Messages: 79 Likes Received: 0
    Couldn't we just peel off the mylar. Or scratch through it.
  5. qabe

    qabe New Jack

    Joined: May 9, 2006 Messages: 25 Likes Received: 0
    we have a similar system on aussie busses with the plastic coating on the windows and we have cameras on em. at one stage people were breaking into buses to steal the cameras.

    its the same as always. they think of something to stop graffiti and people either think of a way to get around it, or a more destructive way of accomplishing the goal.

    they might reduce it, but they aint stopping shit.


    Joined: Dec 4, 2005 Messages: 778 Likes Received: 0
    you would think people would just vandalize the camera like break the lenses and what not
  7. GLIK$

    GLIK$ Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 23, 2002 Messages: 22,277 Likes Received: 117
    You've obviously never tried.

    Trust me, it's harder than it sounds.
  8. Graffitispot.com

    Graffitispot.com Banned

    Joined: May 14, 2006 Messages: 35 Likes Received: 0
    its really hard now to tag on the subays they allways got cops and cammars..
  9. Graffitispot.com

    Graffitispot.com Banned

    Joined: May 14, 2006 Messages: 35 Likes Received: 0
    NYC Graf Artists Are Being Watched, Cameras Put On Subway Trains

    New York City's Transit Authority recently proposed to put cameras in subway cars in an effort to halt graffiti writers from burning their tags into train windows.

    According to the New York Post, transit officials are considering putting both surveillance cameras on trains and replacing subway windows with protective mylar in order to end the recent rise in acid etching - a form of graffiti where writers burn glass windows with their tags using acid.

    The cameras will not be watched live but hope to be used as a tool to catch criminals.

    "The kids will always find a way to get their name out there on the trains," legendary graffiti writer Cope 2 aka Fernando Carlo told the Post. "All you'd have to do is wear a hood, and they wouldn't be able to identify you."

    On the other hand longtime anti-graffiti spokesperson City Councilman Peter Vallone, Jr. was thrilled by the idea. "The MTA has finally come around," Vallone told the Post.

    Ecko Responds to Vegas Mayor's Thumb Chopping Suggestion, Continues Graf Fight in NY

    In November, Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman appeared on the "Nevada Newsmakers" television show making some extreme suggestions about how to put an end to graffiti vandalism.

    "In the old days in France, they had beheading of people who commit heinous crimes," Mayor Goodman said. "You know, we have a beautiful highway landscaping redevelopment in our downtown. We have desert tortoises and beautiful paintings of flora and fauna. These punks come along and deface it. I'm saying maybe you put them on TV and cut off a thumb."

    Mayor Goodman went on to suggest that corporal punishment be delivered to children who get into trouble, in the form of whippings or caning.

    Last week, Ecko, chairman and founder of Ecko Unltd., approached Mayor Goodman about his comments via a letter titled "Re: Taggers, Thumbs and Graffiti Art."

    "You recently suggested chopping off tagger's thumbs and subjecting them to public canings and whippings," Ecko wrote in the letter obtained by SOHH. "Your comments garnered national attention. I heard them and reflected upon your frustration and anger. You may be surprised to learn that I share some of your concerns about public defacement and vandalism. I simply believe in a different approach.

    "First, graf should be celebrated and encouraged, not demeaned or attacked," he added. "It is art. It is expression. It is a form of social commentary. It provokes thought and debate," Ecko continued. "Second most graffiti writers - whom you apparently perceive as being a threat to civilized society - are legitimate and talented artists. Some are entrepreneurs who aspire to design fashion brands, for example, like mine. Many are just searching for an outlet to express their creative energy and establish a name for themselves."

    Ecko concluded the letter telling Mayor Goodman that he would like to meet him next week. "I will be in Las Vegas May 8-9; I'd like to meet you. I'd like you to show me the artistry of your City, while we discuss the finer points of graf and your anti-graffiti ordinances. I'd like to teach you how graf can be a positive form of artistic expression... We can auction off whatever we create, with the proceeds going to the Las Vegas charity of your choice. We can show the people of Las Vegas that graf art, properly created and distributed, is a powerful and effective tool of change."

    Over the last year Ecko has been at the forefront of the debate with lawmakers across the U.S. regarding anti-graffiti laws. He took legal action against New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg when he attempted to block a permit for a graffiti exhibition Ecko planned last August. He's also threatened to sue the City of Denver for anti-graffiti ordinances in that city which he says are unconstitutional.

    More recently, with Ecko's support, seven NYC artists filed a lawsuit against Bloomberg and City Councilman Peter Vallone with for amendments they recently passed this winter.

    On Monday (May 1), Federal Judge George Daniels granted the plaintiffs a primary injunction, halting the enforcement of laws prohibiting people aged 18-20 from buying or possessing spray paint or broad tipped markers.

    However, yesterday (May 4), Hon. Barrington D. Parker, a federal appellate judge sitting on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, extended a stay that will prevent the enforcement of Judge Daniels order. Circuit Judge Parker's order was issued as follows: "It is hereby ordered that the motion for a stay is referred to a three judge panel of this Court. A temporary stay is granted pending disposition of the motion by the panel."

    While Judge Daniels' order remains in effect, the order issued yesterday temporarily extends the stay issued Monday (May 8) when a three judge panel has an opportunity to review the order and determine whether or not it should take effect while the City appeals it.

    I am pleased that the appellate court is giving due consideration to this important case, and confident that Judge Daniels' order will be upheld," said Ecko of the recent decision.

    "The City wasn't enforcing this law to begin with," added Daniel Perez, an attorney who represents the plaintiffs in the case added, referring to comments from Bloomberg earlier in the week that he had wondered about the constitutionality of the law. "No one has been arrested, and only five summonses have been issued over four months. I hope for the City's sake that while this order is being appealed, no one is arrested for violating a law that a federal judge and even the Mayor have questioned."

    WHat Do You Think About THat????
  10. Harvey Wallbanger

    Harvey Wallbanger Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Oct 13, 2004 Messages: 8,567 Likes Received: 400
    Re: NYC Graf Artists Are Being Watched, Cameras Put On Subway Trains

    There are not cameras on New York subway cars.

    Cameras are one of the many proposed ideas to prevent graffiti on the cars.

    Incidentally, this is a direct result of the popularity of etch bath.
  11. GLIK$

    GLIK$ Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 23, 2002 Messages: 22,277 Likes Received: 117
    Re: NYC Graf Artists Are Being Watched, Cameras Put On Subway Trains

    Literally a half inch on your screen below this thread, is another thread about NYC subways.

    I know youre trying to get the name of your toy ass graffiti website out and everything. But basically I dont care.


    I'm merging this with the other one.
  12. GLIK$

    GLIK$ Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jul 23, 2002 Messages: 22,277 Likes Received: 117
  13. Flavicon

    Flavicon Senior Member

    Joined: Aug 18, 2005 Messages: 2,367 Likes Received: 18
  14. eye for an eye

    eye for an eye Member

    Joined: Sep 8, 2005 Messages: 464 Likes Received: 8
    it's not impossible. but the windows get replaced right away.
  15. Harvey Wallbanger

    Harvey Wallbanger Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Oct 13, 2004 Messages: 8,567 Likes Received: 400
    Oh, c'mon Gliko, you know those cammars fucked you up last time you wanted to dance'n graff on the subway...