By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

  1. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum...
    You are currently logged out and viewing our forum as a guest which only allows limited access to our discussions, photos and other forum features. If you are a 12ozProphet Member please login to get the full experience.

    If you are not a 12ozProphet Member, please take a moment to register to gain full access to our website and all of its features. As a 12ozProphet Member you will be able to post comments, start discussions, communicate privately with other members and access members-only content. Registration is fast, simple and free, so join today and be a part of the largest and longest running Graffiti, Art, Style & Culture forum online.

    Please note, if you are a 12ozProphet Member and are locked out of your account, you can recover your account using the 'lost password' link in the login form. If you no longer have access to the email you registered with, please email us at [email protected] and we'll help you recover your account. Welcome to the 12ozProphet Forum (and don't forget to follow @12ozprophet in Instagram)!

No social media trial

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by KILZ FILLZ, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 13,789 Likes Received: 2,562

    Barely scratches because you can tell a lot by people's language and how they use it, and most of that is readily observable info if you pay attention to it (remember way back when 12oz learned what a 'jawn' was?). Even if you can't tell by listening you can look a lot of that up. What is happening with people's info goes far, far deeper because the more points of data collected on you the more mathematical equations that can be done with that info to figure shit out about individual and group behaviors, taking us far off what most of us can or could figure out on our own. People are also being sculpted using their emotions as well as behaviors based off info obtained.

    Of course, this info can be used for good, such as medical research that helps determine how different people are affected by diseases or their treatment. But unfortunately far more of your data goes toward getting you to do things that are not to your advantage or that you ordinarily might not do. Take an overly simplified example- the supermarket figures out that a lot of men who buy shaving cream also happen to buy cranberry juice, so the supermarket puts the cranberry juice on the end of the shaving cream aisle not to make it more convenient for men, but because it increases the probability of selling those 2 items together instead of selling either one separately. And regardless of the reason that men happen to buy those 2 products together, simple fact is they will, and simple fact is that some men will go to that aisle looking just for shaving cream, and some will leave with both products even though that was not their intention. BTW, if you're reading this thinking that's bullshit, I ask you to look at how many people you know with that little plastic supermarket tag on their key rings, the one they scan at every purchase for electronic coupons- what do you think that's for? They say it saves paper coupons, but then why doesn't the store simply put the item on sale? Why do you have to sign up to receive coupons that in all prior history were just there, available to all? Data collection. I mean how else is the store going to know that men who buy product A are also buying totally unrelated product B? It's not enough for stores to say we sell a shit ton of tomato sauce, stock more. They want to know who bought that sauce so they can market more to them, and they want to know what they bought with the sauce to market that to them too.

    There are a lot of psychological properties at play here... too much to discuss at once. If you ever walked through the whole Ikea store you got played. If you ever went to a store like Ikea or anywhere else with the set intention to get something and leave, and you leave with more than what you set out for, you probably got played. Your emotional reactions are also used to sell you shit, your behavioral reactions are used against you if you don't understand them... that's part of what that Facebook story above is about. People have become blindly trained to their phones like Pavlov training a dog. They've taken man's need for social connection and exploited it, made people believe they need to be a part of their artificially created social world, very, very sad. When people talk about wanting to quit social media I ask that you examine what is it providing you that e-mail doesn't? With social media it seems like people want to collect their shit in one spot, show it off, compare. But, they also are attracted to likes, comments, views..., receiving a message that someone liked/commented/viewed you... basic psychology, like getting someone to play the slot machine again and again, or getting a pigeon to peck a bar.

    I hope people will continue to discuss and explore these concepts, important shit. You can also get a good beginning understanding off any intro to social psychology type book.
  2. Dirty_habiT

    Dirty_habiT Administrator

    Joined: Mar 8, 2001 Messages: 18,136 Likes Received: 82
    I tried this and it guessed that I was from Wichita, KS, Springfield, or Lexington. Way off :p. I answered truthfully on all of them, I guess they can't tell I'm a redneck who's lived in Texas my whole life.

    KILZ FILLZ Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 30, 2008 Messages: 14,026 Likes Received: 973
    Did a sober December and made it until my goal of new years eve. Did not increase level of physical activity or change diet. Only variable was not drinking
    Lost two notches on the belt by the end of the month.

    Trying no porn in January. These personal goals really break up the monotony lol
  4. One Man Banned

    One Man Banned Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Jan 9, 2013 Messages: 13,789 Likes Received: 2,562
    So very tempting to post a porn reply just to be a wiseass, must... use... restraint.
    Good for you though, I appreciate self-discipline.
  5. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,992 Likes Received: 906
  6. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,154 Likes Received: 1,005
    Something one would actually masturbate to. (of course there are people that masturbate to cars, cabins, food, etc. but I have to assume he's talking about material an inclined individual might find on pornhub)
  7. misteraven

    misteraven Administrator

    Joined: May 7, 1999 Messages: 8,988 Likes Received: 413
  8. Dirty_habiT

    Dirty_habiT Administrator

    Joined: Mar 8, 2001 Messages: 18,136 Likes Received: 82
    Sober December is good man, glad to hear. I've been on "supervision" for the past year. Today is actually my last day and this time I didn't try to pull a fast one on the PO by chiefing all the time and drinking even though it's part of my conditions not to. I honestly feel fine and don't think I'll go back. The money I've not spent on it alone is worth it to me, I've bought a lot more shit for my cars than I probably would have otherwise.

    The no porn thing, that's a tough one I guess. If you go without porn and decide that you're going to try to meet someone I'd suggest giving yourself a little TJ before hand so you don't come off as too eager. Girls can smell desperate guys pretty well and getting a steady woman in your life can make the porn thing a non issue because you can just go rail on her whenever the need arises.
  9. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,154 Likes Received: 1,005
    "the money not spent" adds up so fucking quickly IF you put it aside, if it just ends up being spent on some other dumb shit it doesn't do much good.

    Trying to work heavily on this myself. I was really good about not buying frivolous crap for almost 3 months, but in the last week I've spent a couple hundred on old spray paint/ephemera without any real justification.
  10. T_R_O_N

    T_R_O_N Elite Member

    Joined: Jul 5, 2006 Messages: 3,503 Likes Received: 158
    Aiming for a year of sobriety as I reflect on a decades worth of inebriation. The universe really out here trying to tempt your boy and it hasn't even been a month yet, lost my bike courier gig ( a blessing in disguise, that job encourages being an alcoholic..didnt even lose it because I was a drunkard, just got tired of waking up super early for work to only really start two hours after im already out and about...precious time I could be sleeping. Also, I had become a robot....how funny, the thing I once viewed as my saving grace and made me free amongst the suits had found a way to imprison me ) and have a lot of free time and got invited to a natty-bo sponsored event(free booze everyfuckingwhere )yesterday,which I turned down. I guess subconsciously and consciously im ready to really try sobriety out. A year ago I'd be down to be there and try to drink all the alcohol i could and maybe hoard a couple cans for obligatory alley drinking that would surely ensue. I'm still suprised I didn't go. High five to me i guess , will report back here around this time next year. (Hopefully ,we're still here ha..haaa..ha.........ehhh? Im still trying to figure out when we entered a scenario where life is playing out like one really long episode of South Park) EDIT: yo, I went on a super long tangent and forgot about the social media thing, deleted face book three months ago? Never needed it and it holds true now three months later, or I just never really had that many friends or associates to make having it necessary, hah *tear emoji*
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  11. NightmareOnElmStreet

    NightmareOnElmStreet Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Messages: 8,393 Likes Received: 513
    Facebook is trash. Did not delete, but I completely stopped using it over a year ago. I’ve checked in twice since. Addicted to the gram. Extremely useful tool for youre average to advanced artist type. Can’t count the amount of opportunities or sales I’ve made with that platform. Frankly, if you’re an artist trying to get busy then you fuckin slippin without a gram acct. Less of course you’re a run of the mill writer or civilian whoever who could give a rats ass about posting a photo for some likes. (Hard shrug)
  12. Winnie Custodio

    Winnie Custodio New Jack

    Joined: Jan 22, 2018 Messages: 8 Likes Received: 2
  13. the.crooked

    the.crooked Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 7, 2006 Messages: 5,864 Likes Received: 183
    I've got a good number of years experience in the bay area analytics scene if people would actually like to get a sense of how information is collected, analyzed, and commodified.

    Feel free to throw questions at an insider.
  14. Hua Guofang

    Hua Guofang Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Oct 29, 2013 Messages: 1,943 Likes Received: 462
    Yeah, I've got a few questions, if I may?

    1 - When apps and other similar services say that claim they anonymise your data before on-selling, how trustworthy is that and can that data be easily un-anonymised?

    2 - Are there algorithms that can take data sets for known individuals /entities and pair them with anonymised data sets to reliably identify and de-anonymise data?

    3 - Privacy statements of apps that are data collectors (such as household budget apps, spending account reconciliation apps, etc) have a strangely worded area regarding your personal data and what happens to it when the company is sold and your data goes with it. Can you talk about what happens to your data, whether it is anonymised before it is handed on when a company is sold and if not, do the privacy responsibilities that you've accepted when signing up to Company A then become those same responsibilities of Company B when it buys Company A or is the privacy section of the original contract with Company A voided by the sale of Company A?

    4 - In the work that you do, do you utulise modern psychometrics to personalise that data and if so, what level of credibility do you give to those taxonomies?
  15. the.crooked

    the.crooked Veteran Member

    Joined: Apr 7, 2006 Messages: 5,864 Likes Received: 183
    Yeah, great questions.

    1. It really depends on the company. The company I work for goes through great lengths to both be compliant with international law, and make sure that people are incapable of matching non-anonymized data with anonymized identifiers. Put one way, let's say you have a singular person ID of XXXXX which is considered identifiable with both your account, and your behaviors. That ID will be anonymized and the various behavioral data silo'd by department, use, and user. As a contractor, I have to pass through many layers of requests to even get anonymized data in most cases.

    2. The only way this would work is if there was a non anonymized set of data that was standardized against the available data in the anonymized set, and then used to train a machine learning method that could find both enough differences in the non-anonymized set with enough reliability to predict a person's identity in a validation set, and then pushed against the anonymized data. This is really just a couple steps in an otherwise broad. Ultimately, this isn't incredibly likely. There are means that one could imagine. You could train a network to create profiles of diction for a given set of people, and then feed it quotes with no person attached to see how accurately it predicts the owner of the quote.

    3. Case by case basis. Really depends on the contractual agreement in the terms of service, what the terms of the acquisition or merger are between companies A and B, and then what happens after that. Presumably a good faith agreement would exclude the idea of changing the ToS without notice. That said, new international laws are forcing companies to be able to reply for requests for data deletion upon consumer request, and to set up processes that can accomplish this within x period of time after the request. There's a lot of internal instability and unsuredness around those laws, however, mostly due to questions of implementation, and what level of aggregation can we keep data past. E.g. is it within the bounds of law that says you can't keep user behavior data after 60 days to aggregate it to daily values rather than individual user values, etc? Ultimately, these are questions and cases of law not having caught up with technology.

    4. I think, ultimately, the notion of psychometrics is somewhat wishy washy. If you were to ask me whether the use of cognitive science is part of certain procedures? Sure. Why wouldn't it be? Are these all nefarious attempts at mind control through suggestive presentation? No.

    Data's use can be split into a couple means of thinking:

    I. Reporting
    II. Optimization
    III. Prediction

    What you are questioning is both II and III.

    To wit, most of what you are thinking about is what's referred to in marketing and sales as customer segmentation. In the technical sense, it's the application of unsupervised clustering algorithms along a number of dimensions to create behavioral profiles. Not of singular people, but rather of broader concepts of people writ large. Generally all these techniques have specific application but their base structures are agnostic to semantic content of the data but rather just difference in data itself. The end result is something interpreted in machine form, but based in the semantic value of a human interloper. Here's an example with Facebook: Based on my language, the complexity of sentence structure, the general topic of things I post about on facebook etc, not to mentioned self proffered data such as educational institutions I've graduated from, and countless other dimensions and conceived metrics, Facebook can make a highly probably guess that I'm:

    - Well educated
    - Politically liberal (their terminology, but lacks depth)
    - Highly Social
    - High value user
    - Long time user
    - Amenable to suggested posts
    - etc.

    These general reference points are useful in terms of "selling advertising" but whether those advertising dollars are well spent would rely on how much I give a shit to click on some served up ad next to me news feed. The better the model at understanding the broad strokes of my behavioral patterns the better ad serving will be in showing me something that is actually relevant to my life. Whether or not this is something that should be done at all is more a philosophical argument about the underpinnings of american democracy and where the boundary between it and economic philosophy begin and end. That said, facebook is a product, google is a product, etc. We engage in an active participation of a three party transaction where our eyes and behavior represent our respective payment for these products. Personally, I don't mind targeted advertising. I don't really believe in privacy so much as security, and I think American views on privacy are as much tied to puritanical notions in religion as they are oppression.

    For those that are concerned about manipulation of experience and information, the same concept that has always governed interactions with institutions still applies: critical thought. In the question of whether or not there's some cabal of technocratic string pullers attempting to nudge people one way or another with the levers at their disposal, the answer is unequivocally no. Conspiratorial thought fails in perpetuity against the sheer size of people in the companies with enough reach and information to attempt to do so. That said, everyone's experience of the internet is literally different. Big companies such as mine, facebook, microsoft ,apple, etc. all invest in large scale experimentation platforms. All of this in better attempts to refine both user experience and internal metrics for growth. Is that nefarious? Really just depends on your perspective.
    theprotester likes this.