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Discussion in 'News' started by isor357, May 14, 2005.

  1. isor357

    isor357 Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 2,491 Likes Received: 3
    I talked with my old man tonite. A friend of his... really smart man, nice guy. Probably about 50 years old was let go from his job of 25 years. He worked at Hometown Communications for more that a quarter of a century. Hometown & its affiliates were sold to Ganett and his position was no longer necesarry. Gannet had their own division that managed this specific function. The man who sold Gary out was worth atleast a half a billion dollars. While the company was technically his to sell and it was his $$$ it seems fucked. It is the people, like Gary, that busted their asses that made this machine work. Without these cogs this wealthy un-named man would never have climbed to the wealth and prestige that he did. Gary has 4 kids, of which 2 are in college. His wife has medical problems and cant work. He probably made close to $70,000 a year & was still broke living in a working class community. Gannet will probably give him the customary week of pay for every year he was employed by Hometown. but what the fuck. You become 50 and it gets hard to find a job. Its safe to assume that some of your parents have experinced that same trife shit. Even though ive only met Gary once i feel a tremendous amount of want to fuck somebody up. My blood pressure is elevated. I feel anxiety and it almost wells me eyes up. The important lesson here is that this is happening EVERYWHERE. Everybody is a temp but they dont even know it.
    You turn 50 years old and a company reassesses your value. If you have worked 2X as hard as the next guy and are really bright they could easily lay you off and hire a 27 year old that isnt as bright and works half as hard. They will pay this guy half as much and he will do half the work but its still all good. THIS IS TEMPORARY

    For years they have been importing foriegners into America; having Americans train them for the job and then replacing the American. This subtle outsourcing hurt many people

    The new model is far less inconspicuous; instead of importing foriegners they are going right to the source country and giving those people a little taste.

    If i had to guess this is temporary as well, There are plenty of third world countries to exploit. A firm can basically hop from 1 place to another and exploit it for cheap labor then move on just as locusts.

    So what happens when folks here an no longer making good enough $ to afford the goods and services to maintain the lifestyle they are accustomed to? Will said goods become cheaper. Will entire markets dry up or will these good and services decrease or disappear?

    Whats important to understand and remember is that CHANGE HAS ALWAYS HAPPENED. This is nothing new.... it's just never happened as fast as it does now.

    I could go on all day but i wont. Its just messed up and i would bet that its not going to get any better in our lifetimes. Actually i predict that its only going to get worse. This wasnt really even an issue 15 years ago.
     
  2. Z R O E

    Z R O E Guest

    Though I disagree with the assumption that the problem lies even predominantly in foreign workers taking jobs, it is a problem. Keep in mind however that though they want to work here or in there home countries concidering the poverty that creeps up on them from all sides, it's not like they aren't being exploited...

    Politicians and of course others say outsourcing is not all bad, that it helps us keep products cheaper, gives away jobs nobody wants anyway and helps countries grow...the problem is when a company has no loyalty or boundry to where they can take there jobs these poor countries must compete with each other to lure work by keeping taxes and wages down and making it difficult for unionization - its called the "race to the bottom." On top of that it is difficult to determine of it has any benifit on prices and other positives one might claim, especially since the market does much of that - it does however keep profits flowing to stock holders. Really out sourcing is a way to generate more profit from the same product as far as I can see...
     
  3. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    Sorry to hear about your dads friend. I don't think he would have too much of a problem finding a new job though with all that experience.

    This reminds me alot of some of the stories my stepgrandpa tells me... He was one of the best machinists in michigan... He could build and fix any kind of industrial machinery there is. Well there's been more than one time when business owners, businessmen, haven't treated him right and actually try to screw him over and he would just walk off the job. He said the businesses would fold in less than a year.

    Just trying to cheer you up.

    You have a good point about people not being able to afford goods and services anymore. This has actually been an argument about capitalism since the system was developed. Because the drive for profitability continually depresses wages and eventually the consumer base businesses depend on dry up, and the system collapses. While there are trends showing this is happening, an even stronger trend to follow is the flattening of the world. Those same workers who have been exploited overseas are becoming more and more skilled and educated all the time. It started out competing for blue collar jobs, but now we are competing more and more for white collar jobs. Manufacturing and now services. The good news is that this will bring the living standards of the world up. The bad news (for americans) is that we are falling behind (instead of competing with people in our own country for a job, we are competing with the WORLD)and likely will not enjoy the amount of priveledge we are accustomed to. Education is key in the near future.... and we ARE falling behind.
     
  4. KaBar2

    KaBar2 Senior Member

    Joined: Jun 27, 2003 Messages: 2,122 Likes Received: 60
    This is a serious problem and it's getting worse. From my point of view, business discovered that it is more profitable to exploit people while they are young, and then kick them to the curb once things get tough. The union movement was built upon this very problem, a hundred and fifty years ago.
    During the 1960's, when I was a teenager, we had a severe labor shortage. People could get a job just about anywhere. I personally quit numerous jobs on a whim, and I was usually working again within a week. Benefits were good, especially on union jobs, and most adults felt like they had a "job for life" if they wanted it.

    We live in a different world now, a world in which the United States and it's people are no longer at the top of the heap. There are a lot of reasons why this is true, but primarially we are faced with multi-national corporations who have no stake in the U.S.'s long term standard of living. We live in a world where the U.S. is the world's largest debtor nation. We have a lot more competition from other industrialized nations, and "developing" nations whose labor force will work for a fraction of U.S. wages, no benefits, and a terrible set of working conditions. The phrase "sweat shop" is quite accurate.

    If Americans will work for wages similar to Mexico or Thailand, they will see industry return to the U.S. You won't need to go to the Third World---they are going to bring the Third World to us.
     
  5. tsuifuku

    tsuifuku Junior Member

    Joined: Apr 19, 2005 Messages: 204 Likes Received: 0
    The problem is not "foreigners". As members of the working class, we have more in common with a guy from China or India who has to work for a living than we do with some dick who had the fortune of being offspring of Sam Walton.

    Times are getting harder. If you count in inflation the average "real wage" of a worker is less than they were making in 1970.
    More of peoples disposable income is tied up in paying debt.

    Shit is getting deeper, I'm currently reading a book called Capitalism's Long Hot Winter Has Begun, it has some really good information in it about the coming depression, which wont just be in america, but the world.
     
  6. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    Same shit happened to my mom. As soon as she (and alot of other workers that been there for about as long) were coming up on retirement... Pussies sold the plant and everyone was cut loose.
    She was making like 20 bucks an hour. She had to go to school (at 50) just to get her current job making 10 bucks an hour (at 50) so she can struggle to pay the mortgage and bills (at 50!). That's capitalism. That's what niggas is dieing in Iraq for. When you hear this bullshit propaganda about "spreading Democracy", they aint even talking about "Democracy" they're talking about "Capitalism". And long before we're our parents age, they're aint gonna be no more social security thanks to Bush and his peeps (Capitalism). :hatred: :hatred:
     
  7. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    TRUE STORY. Stop hating on the Mexicans. In 10 years we're gonna be doing the same shit as them (moving to a different country to work our asses off for dirt cheap cause there is no jobs left here).
     
  8. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5

    TRUE,TRUE, TRUE, TRUE, TRUE!

    My grandparents (RIP) Honestly beleived that all you had to do was go door to door and within the day you would have a job. :huh2:

    Kabar you should deffinately write a fucking book.
     
  9. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    Haha... watch canada get a massive influx of american immigrants... they'll be like "what? We thought you hated us?" Same thing in Europe...

    I know under Clinton there was actually too many jobs... so lots of immigrants would be justified. It was alot easier finding jobs back in the day.
     
  10. casekonly

    casekonly Veteran Member

    Joined: Aug 6, 2002 Messages: 8,264 Likes Received: 5
    i saw an interesting documentary about jamaica the other night. it was about how jamaicans are being fucked over by america and the u.k.

    what's going on is this: there are zones at the ports called 'free zones' which are not governed by any country. a foreign company ships in textiles, they arrive at the port (free zone) where said company has a factory set up, they are processed and woven into whatever garments, packed up, and shipped out. they never touch jamaican soil. the factories in the free zones do hire jamaicans, but they only pay about $30 u.s. dollars a week. that is before taxes.

    anoither company, chiquita banana company is fucking jamaica by taking over their banana export. chiquita is using south american bananas and south american labor b/c it is so damned cheap. the jamaicans were selling to the u.k., but now chiquita has butted in and started fucking them over.

    that island is filled with absolute crap living conditions b/c of american companies fucking over the citizens.
     
  11. metallix

    metallix Elite Member

    Joined: Oct 7, 2001 Messages: 2,955 Likes Received: 1
    the US Elite class has made a decision to divorce themselves from the Fate of the USA. Globalization as a phenomenon is no longer stoppable. It has been firmly integrated into the global economic system.
    The bindings are set and all that need to occur is massive capital flows to create global free trade and wealth distribution like never seen before.

    USA is not as competitive as it was after World War 2.
    You know have to compete with a man in Asia for your job. With a person in Eastern Europe who is more educated, speaks more languages then you, and will work for less pay. You must compete or you will suffer and go to welfare.

    And the War In Iraq? Yes it was for capitalism, a move to corner the global energy markets and ensure FRN's as the global reserve currency.

    No job is secure. Your life is not even secure. You are living on borrowed time from God. Economic Security as a member of the slave class does not exist. All you have is your time to sell. If your time is useless, then you have nothing to sell. If your time is more expensive then the same time in another country, then your useless also.

    More problems on the horizon:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney04082005.html

    http://news.ft.com/cms/s/883cd656-c62b-11d...000e2511c8.html
     
  12. villain

    villain Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2002 Messages: 5,190 Likes Received: 2
    I always like to read the replies by metallix because in my imagination I hear this voice like that of a voice over a PA system during a rebel uprising in a state of martial law, announcing the truth to sheeple after years of state run propaganda. It's quite entertaining.

    *Good articles by the way. That first one helped me piece together the big picture that I had been catching glimpses of. America being treated like a 3rd world country controlled by the IMF and america trying to control the worlds oil supply... stuff like that.
    I'm hearing that gold is a good way to hedge against the falling dollar.
     
  13. isor357

    isor357 Senior Member

    Joined: Oct 8, 2004 Messages: 2,491 Likes Received: 3
    more problems on the horizon. I agree with alot of what has been stated. If you choose to ignore this shit you will get left behind. If you acknowledge it you may still get left behind. All i know is that i'm making the same or less than i was 5 years ago and everything is getting more expensive. I really hope education brings me up out. I see grown men all day long making $8.00-10.00 an hour. How the fuck you supposed to maintain on that sort of wage. Ive probably made close to 20K a year and i can hardly afford a tiny ass box in a shit neighborhood, eat, and pay for school. I have no idea how a single mom supports a family on what i make and im not supporting anybody. Comparatively speaking i'm not doing that bad yet i feel destitute.... You know how many people are at or below the poverty line? How many people could be categorized as persistently poor? I can only imagine how bad it must feel to not provide shelter for my family? These trends are only going to grow worse. The best thing you can do is some research, get educated and hope shit works out.

    There are plenty of people here let alone abroad that are willing to work for next to nothing. There are really only so many good jobs to be had. 25 - 30 years ago here in Detroit you could get a factory job and mad overtime with little or no education. You made 25+ an hour, the dollar was more valuable. Now these manufacturing jobs are scarce and disappearing. The overtime that once enabled people to get ahead is basically non existant. Its hard to find any work let alone a decent paying job. Many of these guys that once worked in the factories are still around and shuffled into low paying service industry jobs.

    Despite everything this nation still has plenty of $$$ to support war. And let me tell you..... I want nothing more than for my tax $$$ to be used for war against insignificant 3rd world countries. Who needs the AFDC or even TANF, fuck the poor... Its far better to export liberty and "freedom" across the globe to people that wish us dead than help our own people.
     
  14. SF1

    SF1 Elite Member

    Joined: Apr 25, 2003 Messages: 4,866 Likes Received: 5
    Amen bro, A-fucking-men!





    Edit--->No homo. :scowl:
     
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