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Montana Spraycans - The whole long story.

Discussion in 'Third Rail' started by imported_Europe, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. From www.hiphop.it

    This italian site has made 4 articles about the entire story of Montana Spraycans.
    Alot of stories and rumours have been circulating about the companies involved in the making and distribution of the Montana cans.

    The first two parts is an interview with KAPI from Spanish Montana
    The next two parts is an interview Ruediger and Timm from German Montana

    Both sides tells their story...

    Montana generation..
    ENGLISH Part 1
    We are very glad to interview you so…
    I’m glad you want to talk with me too. It is nice that you want to inform audience from the source.
    At first, we would like to know how Montana spray borned! Which was the idea, the project, behind Montana spray cans! At the real beginning was it for graffiti writers or not?
    Montana start because Moockie and me wanted to do a graffiti shop because we are writing from 80’s and we saw how necessary was to keep information and products in one shop. Then we contacted Jordi (the owner of Montana) and told him about our plan of the shop. He was working in a spray can factory as a commercial manager. We just were looking for support getting good price for cans. We explain him our idea and graffiti scene and he get fascinated with this. Then all start but Jordi was completely pinion with this company because they did not really trust in graffiti market.
    Then one year later (beginning 1994) Jordi decide ask us help to build a brand only for graffiti market. We put the knowledge of graffiti needs and Jordi put knowledge in technical things. This was the origin. In spring 1994 Moockie and me organized an event was called “AEROSOL ART” We invited 50 writers (Can 2, Time, Kane, Opak, Jiwee, Popay, Honet, etc) from all around the world and that day was the first time writers paint with Montana (black color). All was very small. Our intention was just to spread cans aroud just to writers. So Montana is really for graffiti regarding your question. What happened one year later is that everybody in Europe knows that there was a shop in Barcelona where they sell incredible cans very cheap and was full of writers that came just to buy bulks and bring it back to their cities. They were the first exportators. Was like this until 1995 end of the year that first writers start to try to import the products to their countries doing regular deal. First country was ITALY and second was Switzerland. After came England and France. In 1997 montana was well known and the product was developed almost like nowadays and we started to send cans to the rest of Europe, and some other continents.
    Why the name ‘Montana’?
    There is nothing special on it. Jordi just like that name because sounds latino and everybody can read it, and easy to remember it because is a very used name (state of Montana in USA is well known). There was nothing special and of course is ridiculous to think that Jordi copy this name from of Switzerland company like “the german Montana” assure. Why? was it well known graffiti paint before 1994 called Montana? Ha, ha!
    Tell us a short history on how you star producing cans, you grown etc…..
    I think I already did in second question…
    Talk us about your staff …
    Montana is still small company. Because the graffiti market now is big (and we believe we are responsibles of that, not about the scene, about the commercial market). We had several opportunities to be part of multinational companies of paint (like the offer MOTIP DUPLI did to us to join them and we rejected one year before they “attack” us). But this never fit with us. We decide several times to remain small (or medium like we are now). It is more human work. We know everybody here at the factory, all is flexible and most important thing we work for life, and not LIFE FOR WORK!!! So the stuff is small. We direct the company basically like this: Jordi and Miquel are the Owners. Jordi and Me do the commercial and marketing part. Didac is a young chemist and do the technical part and Suso (is even younger) the factory chief, do the factory.workers part. That’s all. After this there is just workers, Now we have around 50.
    Where exactly you produce cans? And how many cans a day you produce!?
    We produce here, where the offices are. In a little town near Manresa. Manresa is 50 km from Barcelona and is still province of Barcelona. We are down the shadow of a wonderfull Mountain called Montserrat.
    We produce between 18.000 and 24.000 cans per day. All is handy. No automatic machines. Then we are able to do many different colors everyday and small quantities of each like 4000. With automatic this is not possible, Semiautomatic needs at least 50.000 and full automatic like 100.000 of each color and size. Not useful for us (investment, stocks, etc).
    Montana grown togheter with writing movement do you remind a special period of selling... i mean good selling a very bad selling periods..and why?
    We are always growing under our possibilities and under our own tempo. There was never a year where we sold less that one before. Regarding money is different. At the moment that problems with the brand name and of course the fire at the old building came, we had a big deficit in order to invest in new building and pay lawyers. But all seems to go better and better again. We are alive!
    You are right telling Montana grow with movement. I heard from one oldschool writer from new york following words 2 years ago: “there is a before and an after in the graffiti scene since Montana appears”. This is the best compliment I never hear for me. I’m a writer since 1986 and I understand a long time ago that my style and my pieces will not do something special to the scene, so I decided to do other things for help the grown of the scene. I started with a magazine (game over magazine now called Downrocks) after I did the shop (Bunker) and after I help with Montana. When I heard that words them I felt “complete”, you know what I mean. Is my way to be some “Seen”, “mode 2” or “Loomit” for the scene.
    Can you explain us the process to produce paint, and which kind of tests do you use to do before having new colours?
    This is very technical and I’m not really into it. It is too much. Seems that for get our quality with our price and being very environment protectors, is needed to be placed in Spain. Some raw material comes from here and is very good quality and would be very expensive to export or get in another place. To get new colors is easy. I just listen my partners and all writers I’m talking here and there. Always there is people that give me ideas and samples. At the moment we decide to do new colors, then I choose one of the ideas and I give it to Didac (the chemist). Then he start to formulate at the laboratory and see different possibilities. Then we choose one depending on covering, shining, color, etc. It is not a complicate part of the process.
    Montana paint is appreciated specially for is density and pressure, how do you focused these 2 fondamental details to make Montana worldwide famous spray?
    Well, Montana start in 1994 to make the standard cans we use at that time in Spain (classic 200 ml.). Moockie and me start to trip a lot around Europe and we used all brands (sparvar, marabu, belton even dupli). So we offer to Jordi a sample of this cans for make a 400ml standard in europe but with Spanish quality covering. Also we recommend to Jordi to do this can with a lot of pressure to have a really different use if we compare with classic. Then the hardcore can born. Was perfect product for fast actions and bombing, the main focus at that time for all of us.
    What the element that make you proud of Montana spary cans? Popularity, quality or what?!
    Of course the product indeed. Quality and how useful is for paint graffiti. But for me personally what is the best is what I told you before: “there is a before and an after in the graffiti scene since Montana appears”. Is like my child, you know. Is a big personal thing more than business thing.
    Who is behind restyling, designing and creation of new lines and new colors?
    Basically Jordi and me. Of course we have help from other people, for example in design (Mar, Moockie), but last decisions and first ideas come from “our table”.
  2. From www.hiphop.it

    KAPI from Spanish Montana continues:

    Montana generation..
    ENGLISH Part 2
    The name HARDCORE makes understand the attitude for bombing, and metal writing, is it born before the idea of using spray to this kind of paint (that’s why the name) or it’s a natural development of a good paint that you have fallowed introducing the name HARDCORE?
    I explained you before how e develope 400 ml. Can. The first day Jordi gave me a sample of this can I make a test in front of him with the fat pink can. I just made a line and a point and when I saw the “effect” (like the old belton but covering and fast drying!) I just open my mouth and say: “This is HARDCORE!”. Then Jordi just take my word and put it on the can. Funny is it?
    It it real that governament tolds your company to add an element to permit paint to be buffed from the train?
    This is the first time I heard this. This is real funny! Anyway if this happens some day we will say no because our paint is designed to be protective and durable so it will be against our product concept.
    We saw that yellow seems to be most delicate colours…the only ones doesn’t’ not respect MONTANA covering standards…why?
    Yes. You are right. Yellow pigment is difficult to get regarding dangerous components. First middle of 90’s was usual to find good yellows in the market because all pigments were standard. But that pigment was dangerous for health.
    Laws changed and the pigment producers start to develop new yellow pigments that don’t contain dangerous components but have not the same result. It is still possible to buy the pigments that covers better but then it should be indicated in the can that contains dangerous components. This is normal in industry market but in art o domestic market like ours is not good. We are still developing new ideas to find the perfect yellow with the pigments we get now. Anyway there is many yellows that are very good already in our brand.
    How do you realize was a good idea produce XXL cans and mini…was a writer suggestion?
    As I told you we always are listening everybody. I’m not sure how they came exactly but we want always to do things. Is our nature, We don’t want to come to office to do always the same. So ideas came everyday and we are always looking around, everybody, streets, shops, people, films, tv, things that can inspire us and give ideas, like products, sizes or the names for the colors. Also we listen a lot to our direct customers (like distributors for example).
    Now delicate questions; this part, the same, has been sent to Montana germany because a lot of readers asks us to make clear difference from MONTANA spain and German and why and how this happened!
    We were talking a lot of this matter. I’m a bit tired because is expending energy a time on this. I think everybody knows already that there is 2 montana cans and are different and from different companies and countries. This was my main aim. Now is done. Try to explain what happened from my side just give partial information. The other side will have different points of view. So I prefer don’t really develop too much this point. I just will write main details.
    -1 L+G came to be our distributor in 1997 and grow very good with us. Of course they give us ideas as everybody did and do (distributors and customers) and this is normal when you are working together with other company but this cannot be an argument to say that now you owes that brand, because you gave ideas..
    -2. They make a deal with MotipDupli for make their own brand but seems they where looking for (together) our market, the one we develop. So MotipDupli offer us to buy the company and we reject it.
    -3. Using tricks they made a Montana can (first they copy the hardcore design and later they make the black Montana can) and start to distribute fake information about us (we are closed, we have poisonous products, we did not develop nothing was just their ideas, etc)
    -4. They try to cancel our brand sending us lawyers everywhere, also they talked with our distributors to convince them to “fuck” us and even they try to close our company sending inspectors to test our products (regarding poison components). It was crazy! They plan a frontline attack like a war. Big fish trying to eat small fish…
    This is what happened. All our actions where always for defend us. And of course to inform consumers that we are still here and they can choose what kind of people they want to support and what product they want.
    We don’t want monopoly of market, we hate this, me personally as writer, like to share the market with other brands. Writers must have a lot to choose is better for the graffiti scene. But companies must create things, not copy. Time is in our side because we have creativity…
    a special greetings for hiphop.it readers!
    Yeah! I want to thank every writer in the world. They have part of us always they use a can of us and this is the best we can feel…
  3. From www.hiphop.it

    First part of the interview with Ruediger and Timm from German Montana:

    Montana generation
    ENGLISH Part 1
    We are very glad to interview you so…
    Thank you, we are also happy to have the possibility to talk to your appreciated audience.
    At first, we would like to know how Montana spray borned! Which was the idea, the project, behind Montana spray cans! At the real beginning was it for graffiti writers or not?
    To start in the bare beginning, I started selling cans in 1993. But these were not Montana, but Kwasny (belton) cans I bought 2nd choice from the stock and sold these to writers I knew. With these sellings I financed my own paint I needed for Writing.
    In 1996 I connected with my former schoolmate and now business partner Tim Latif first to sell a bigger amount of Kwasny cans that I got offered, but didn´t have the money for it. Tim was selling that time nuts from Iran and already started a small business.
    The deal with Kwasny failed, but in this year I met a writer from switzerland who sold Montana paint from spain, just like I sold the 2nd choice paint from Kwasny. Kwasny that time was not interested in the Graffiti scene, Kwasny even told me, that if they see me selling the cans to Graff Writers they will stop supplying me!

    Therefore the Spanish cans were interesting, after having some faxes with Montana Colors we saw that they also were at their beginning. We asked some samples and got them after some weeks. The can was that time totally different to the ones we know from today. Even the 400ml had the female-cap-system (the one with the nipple out of the can), most of the colors had a transparent plastic top and you just could get the name from a sticker written in the name in spanish, there was nowhere else a color sign (no donut or something like that).
    To keep it short: we started doing business with the spanish and the same time, gave them some ideas to develope the cans. This doesn´t mean, that we created the can from today, but we gave essential ideas like showing the color on top of the can (donut), skinnycap on the can, male valve system, new colors......etc.
    Montana wasn´t known those days, just some writers who travelled to spain, heard about the paint and we started from the beginning to promote the brand. In the start just in Germany, but soon we went to other countries and the spanish supported us, as they gave us over the years more and more countries exclusive for distribution, as we made the brand known worldwide over the magazines, videos, our writer team, website,.....etc.

    If Montana was made for Writers? Well, Montana Colors in Spain was founded by Jordi Rubio and Miguel Galea (both about 36 years old) in1995, both were before working for Felton Spray. Jordi was salesman at Felton, and next to the normal paint customers he supplied also some shops selling to writers. After some time Jordi and Miguel were fired by the Felton owner (there are rumors why, I will not comment this here) and they decided to make competition to him. Therefore they made an agreement with Lak Bari, a paint manufacturer near Barcelona. Jordi worked for Lak Bari also as salesman and Miguel in the laboratory and parallel both started a manual production of cans in the Lak Bari building. When we visited them in summer 1996 they still were at Lak Bari. The first color tables they showed us had also "heater paint" and "Galvanic paint" etc. Therefore I think their first target were the customers of Felton generally, but also the shops who sell to writers. Soon they saw that Graffiti could be a profitable market, especially when we started to work with them. Very soon we became by far their biggest customer and in 1997 they decided then to concentrate more in Graffiti. But since the beginning until today they also fill cans for others, mostly industrial customers like CRC or Akzo Nobel. Therefore I think the original intention was to find markets where you can make money, and Graffiti is one of these markets.

    L&G on the other hand had and still has the intention to serve writers with professional stuff they need, good tools to work with. This is our philosophy and our business and daily bread. Therefore I would say: yes, as it comes to our Montana, the intention was to make it for writers!
  4. From www.hiphop.it

    Montana generation..
    ENGLISH Part
    Why the name ‘Montana’?
    This is a question we hear very often. Basically the answer is easy: if Montana colors is the mother of the brand Montana, we are the father!
    But let´s start at the beginning: Something we did not know that time was: Jordi had in 2000 a personal crises. Today we know, that that time he wanted to sell the whole company. His Investmentbanker Maarten de Jongh offered it to several companies, also to Peter Kwasny (belton). Later we heared from the people of Kwasny that Jordi wanted about 3 Mio. Euros. But this was too much, nobody wanted to pay this high amount of money. Then Jordi thought, that maybe his biggest client L+G could buy the company. He invited us to Spain to make his offer. First we were shocked that he wants to sell the company. Anyway, we made clear that we have nothing, no money, no credit, we started our business out of the garage and these numbers (millions of Euros) were unreachable for us.
    Then Jordi and Maarten offered to sell us the brand only ("Montana"). As we that time felt and still today feel the maker of the brand (all advertisements, Writer Team, development of the cans, colors, donut etc made by us!.) this was the chance to finally show our whole potential to the market. And we had another problem also: Jordi did break our contract all the time. He shipped cans to Sweden, Switzerland, Poland, Greece etc., all countries, where we had exclusivity. In 1997 we had nearly stopped all business with him, because he broke our contract already that time several times, but he promised to stop and even gave us a written contract committing himself to pay 100.000 Euros for every contract break in the future. And still he broke the contracts!
    Ok, but back to the story: we saw in purchasing the brand a chance to get the control over the markets, and to make a real "marketing from writers for writers". This was our dream all the time. And therefore we agreed after several meetings that we will buy the brand for about 1 Mio. Euros. We even signed a pre-contract with Jordi! We did not have the money, therefore we agreed on three payments, so we could finance the payment out of our business.

    Before making the final contract, we asked our patent lawyer in Heidelberg, Dr. Naumann, to make a research about the name "Montana". We wanted to be sure to have no bad surprises afterwards, especially because we had bad experience with brands in our clothing business. Dr. Naumann made the research and the result was a disaster: he explained us, that first of all there is an older brand "Montana", registered since mid of the 80ies by a Swiss company called Farbo S.A., so a purchase of the brand was not acceptable for him, and the second bad news was: we had to stop sooner or later all distribution of Montana products!

    So we told Jordi in February 2001 that we could not make the deal and told him about all the risks. But Jordi was not very open for that discussion.

    Anyway, in September 2001, just after the destruction of the world trade centre, we received a letter of progression licensing AG, a Swiss company defending brands, that in the name of Farbo we have to stop immediately to sell Montana. Now the worst case had happened. We tried to contact Farbo to find a friendly solution, but they were not interested. At that time we had a meeting with Juerg Vogelsang, the matter was a completely different one, namely the resumee of the introduction of the "ProLine" in Germany. He saw our frustration then and asked why we were frustrated. We told him our problems and he immediately promised us help. He is from Switzerland and knew Farbo from times when his father was living. So he contacted them and finally they were ready to talk. We also contacted the Spanish and Jordi came together with Maarten de Jongh and Dr. Fortea, a 65-years old guy who was their patent lawyer.

    Unfortunately this meeting was very disappointing for us. Jordi was not ready to get a license, because his patent lawyer said all the time, that colors and spray colors are different, so the brands of Farbo and Montana Colors are different (which is not true in terms of patents and trade marks, now, after he lost several cases in front of court, Dr. Fortea learned this too, I think.). Anyway, there was no deal. And we, L+G, were in the middle, on the one hand we wanted to work with everybody, on the other hand we had to decide: or having loads of court cases with Farbo or stopping our successful relation with Jordi. We decided to go with Farbo, because actually they were more trustable, they had the rights on the brand we built up for 5 years day and night and they had not breaked any contract with us before. Also they did not want to sell their business as Jordi wanted to do. As you can imagine, it was a hard decision, because we stopped 5 years of successful work immediately.

    The conclusion of all this story: we wanted to make cans and other products for writers and suddenly we were in a real business war, where just money counted! Crazy experience!

    Tell us a short history on how you started producing cans, you grown etc…..
    Yes, sure. L&G was founded by Ruediger Glatz and Tim Latif in 1996. First we acted as a personal company, after 1998 we founded a GmbH (limited company, something like Italian s.r.l.). We started out of a garage, importing and selling Montana from Spain and belton from Kwasny (just for a short time), after short time also sweatshirts, t-Shirts, pants, accessoires, markers, blackbooks etc. In 1999 we founded the "inflammable mailorder", today one of Germans biggest hiphop-mailorder catalogues. In 2001, because of the fact that "Aerosol Art" was not very successful, we made a new line called "Aerosol Art ProLine", which worked much better and is today our cheap line.
    In 2002 we brought our "New Montana Generation" to the market, in 2003 we brought "Montana Gold" and some weeks ago a new 600ml bombing line called "Montana Platinum". In 2004 we plan to cooperate again with the Write4Gold event, which is a collaboration with Cantstopfanatics, a professional hiphop-event-company founded by writers. This time the event will be international. It also will come to Italy (check www. write4gold.com for further informations).

    After 5 times moving the warehouse and offices we reside since three months in one of Heidelbergs most beautiful quarters, “Heidelberg Weststadt” with a lot of green trees and ancient houses. Our view over Heidelbergs forest is unique! We love this city.

    Until today we were growing year by year strongly, today we distribute exclusively the brands Montana Aerosol Art, Bombing, Hardcore Markers (also our idea!), Inflammable, Aerosoul Clothing, ASL, Stick up Kidz, Number One Actiongear, A-Function but also other products like the Copic and Touch Markers etc.

    Talk us about your staff …
    We have a young team of around 20 people. I am with 28 years the oldest person in the company and my partner Tim is with 27 the second oldest. Several of us are writers and most of us are connected to hip hop (DJ etc.). We also have a street store, "The Flame" in the old town of Heidelberg. It is managed by "Stieber Twins", old school Heidelberg Rappers, feel free to visit us any time at "The Flame"!

    Where exactly you produce cans? And how many cans a day you produce!?
    We let our cans produce in Haßmersheim near Mosbach in Germany. This is the production of Motip Dupli, Europe´s biggest spraypaint producers.
    They produce about 300.000 cans daily in Haßmersheim and their second plant in Wolvega, Netherlands. But of course our ranges are just some among others, we do only a small part of their whole production.

    By the way: both productions are full-automatic, and you do not need 100.000 pieces per color, 692 pieces per color are enough, just for your information. ;-))

    Montana grown togheter with writing movement do you remind a special period of selling... i mean good selling a very bad selling periods..and why?
    Our sellings are going up since the first day we started, but this is of course a matter of expansion as well to new markets and of bringing out of new, innovative products. But in Germany the writer movement has to fight serious attacks of the authorities, we try to help but it is difficult!

    Can you explain us the process to produce paint, and which kind of tests do you use to do before having new colours?
    When we plan to create a new line of paint, we collect certain ideas of the customer and friends that should fit to it and then we explain the guys in the laboratory what characteristics the paint suppose to have, e.g. coverage, drying time, compatibility, sound, smell, price,.........
    Than the chief of the laboratory is developing some samples we test. This goes as long until he finds the right version. When we got it, it goes to realize all the seleceted colors on the optimal coverage. As the different pigments have different attributes, like yellow, orange and red cover really bad, we need to test each color in the quality until a complete range is ready to produce. Of course we try to test the cans in all possible circumstances (cold, warm, rainy, dry, fast, slow etc.).

    Montana paint is appreciated specially for is density and pressure, how do you focused these 2 fondamental details to make Montana worldwide famous spray?
    Well, actually the high pressure on the Rexam valve (old cap system) is good, but not perfect. We try to improve that. But sure, the high pressure and the opacity made the can famous, and the new Goldline is making the brand even more famous due to its unique color system and the special valves and caps, high coverage and fast drying time. With Montana Gold you can both make a detailed photorealistic piece on canvas and a backjumps covering a big steel surface in seconds. The new Montana Platinum is even more extreme: for me it is the best bombing can existing at the moment, and not because I am making it!

    What the element that make you proud of Montana spray cans? Popularity, quality or what?!
    I think it is both. It is really great if you come to a foreign country and the writers all know the paint you created and connect it to good quality. It was always our intention to serve the customers with the best possible product, for the best price with the best service. Of course this is not easy and since day one we work on approving our service and our products. I think the most special thing about our work is to see that your job affects certain scenes and artist. Sometimes we start to work with a new country and the national graffiti is growing faster because of your product and service. Greece is a very nice example.

    Who is behind restyling, designing and creation of new lines and new colors?
    It is us. We have a design department, where 4 designers create ads, our website, our catalogue, flyers, color tables, new lines etc,. We also have writers in the company only testing and developing new, innovative paint qualities. Before just me did this and I was taking care as well of the textile business and other things. Now, since we moved about 3 months ago, we have more space and employed new people for the research&development department. We will come up with crazy stuff in the next years, but the real innovations take a lot of time. But of course we work tight together with the scientists in the laboratory of Motip Dupli.

    The name HARDCORE makes understand the attitude for bombing, and metal writing, is it born before the idea of using spray to this kind of paint (that’s why the name) or it’s a natural development of a good paint that you have fallowed introducing the name HARDCORE?
    The name for spraypaint was introduced by the spanish and we don´t use it for spraypaint. We introduced the markers and distribute them today. Also the Spanish Markers are coming from us.

    We saw that yellow seems to be most delicate colours…the only ones doesn’t’ not respect MONTANA covering standards…why?
    Yellow pigments cover really bad and the more the yellow gets brilliant, the less it covers. The only chance to make yellow cover is with lead pigments as these provide a stronger opacity.
    .....but we are working on a certain paint that even makes yellow cover good without lead. I hope end of 2004 we will have results!

    How do you realize was a good idea produce XXL cans and mini…was a writer suggestion?
    These products were from back in the days, when we distributed cans from Spain. Both are more gimmicks than real tools, you don´t really sell volume. But we brought a lot of innovations in the last years: the "Gold" has a drying time under 30 seconds and a beautiful color range, the "Montana Spider" is a revolutionary innovation for tagging, and with the "Montana Platinum" we have high covering metallics, similar to colored chromes, for example Electric Blue or Electric Red. And we have a white Tar Black, extremely covering. The name is "BlackStar". More innovations to come in 2004.........

    Now delicate questions; this part, the same, has been sent to Montana Spain because a lot of readers asks us to make clear difference from MONTANA spain and German and why and how this happened!
    Well, we explained the story so often. Actually a big part of the story is above. Here just short notes and some replys to the interview of Kapi:
    1. Since 1996 we developed together with Montana Spain the Montana brand both in terms of product and distribution. In 2001 we are distributor for Montana Spain in 25 countries. Since the beginning we have our own logo, made by JayOne, BBC Crew, Paris, for us, today worldwide known as "Montana Logo".
    2. 2000/2001: Montana Spain wants to sell us the brand. We cannot buy it because of trademark problems with Farbo (Switzerland), even though we already signed a precontract with Montana Spain (all papers are here, we are ready to give it to anybody doubting!)
    3. End of 2001: Because of contract breaks and substantial problems with the brand we stop working with Montana Spain and cooperate with Motip Dupli as our new producer under the registration of the brand "Montana" of Farbo.
    4. The Spanish try to register our JayOne-logo at the European Trademark office. Jay is very angry.
    5. The Spanish try to confiscate our first cans, which are produced under the written agreement with the Spanish in the same design. The cans come back to us, Spanish Montana loses the case and has to pay all damages. We immediately change the design, as with our own graphic design department we have enough creativity for good graphic work in our own team.
    6. 2002: Spanish Montana attacks us in the Netherlands, Poland, France, Farbo attacks them in Switzerland, Italy, Germany. The war is on its peak now.
    7. Polymex International and Graphotism distribution, two main distributors, join us. They want to distribute our cans and stop with the Spanish. Also Montana Italia wants to join us. But Fritz da Cat / Full Clip visits us beginning of 2002. He also is interested to sell our cans in Italy. We meet several times with Fritz and with Montana Italia, we try to bring both together, because we know that Fritz is good in marketing but Montana Italia better in logistics. Fritz says, that he wants to be without Montana Italia, he wants to be exclusive distributor of our cans. We try to convince him to work together with Montana Italia and he finally agrees. He has one condition: Montana Italia has to sign first. They sign in February, but Fritz does not keep his word. He goes to Jordi and distributes from now Spanish cans.
    8. 2003: In Den Haag Farbo wins a final decision stating that Montana Spain has to pay damage and to change the name. Now they use mostly MTNMTN. Most of the other cases are lost by Montana Spain (France, Germany etc.).
    9. Today: Except of Italy all markets are doing well. Therefore we decide to cancel the work with Montana Italia, mostly because they have no connection to writers, do not sell very well and have depts to us. 2004 we will come back to Italy with a new distribution.

    For all points written here we have proofs on paper, so if anybody doubts we can present contracts, court cases etc. For us is just important, that everybody sees, that the story is much more complex than always showed! And if Kapi tells the truth, if competition is no problem for them, then why not having 2 Montanas in the market, if they are different? We see it like a divorce: we were a couple and now we are seperated, and everybody can prove his competence on the market in terms of quality and service. And the customer benefits: he has better qualities and a broader selection.

    Check also: www.montana-cans.com, www.inflammable.com, www.write4gold.com, galleries, informations, interviews etc. here!

    Thanks and Peace to all Italian Writers and HipHop-artists!

    Ruediger & Tim
    L&G/Montana Germany

    THE CORONER Banned

    Joined: Jun 2, 2004 Messages: 2,171 Likes Received: 0
  6. LaCosaNostra

    LaCosaNostra Senior Member

    Joined: Feb 3, 2004 Messages: 2,191 Likes Received: 0
    they both have cute ass laptops, thats forsure
  7. schick1

    schick1 Guest

    well after reading that i understand both companies sides. and why there are two brands...but personally i like spainish montana much better the smell and the way it sprays with a pink dot is so raw.....................
    german stuff is good paint but its like belton, and too hear its made in the dupli factory is super wack. my opinion
  8. lucaroo

    lucaroo New Jack

    Joined: Sep 8, 2002 Messages: 3 Likes Received: 0
    Germany vs. Spain

    I personally know Jordi, Kapi and Moockie. They are good people. Their facility is small, family oriented and they have a sincere passion for their work. I do not know the Germans so I can't comment on them but I can say that in that interview a few red flags are thrown up with his mentions of other bad deals and disputes he has or is in the middle of.

    I like to use both brands but personally side with Spain.
  9. destroya

    destroya Senior Member

    Joined: Sep 30, 2002 Messages: 1,714 Likes Received: 2
    this is a really fucked up situation. sounds to me like the krauts got raped, but i'd rather not take sides, since i've never even used the paint since the people distributing in my area are cocksuckers and won't let me buy it.
  10. seeking

    seeking Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 25, 2000 Messages: 32,277 Likes Received: 235
    if people wont even sell you paint, you must be a quadruple herb.

    i dont understand why writers give a shit about this? the spanish want to stay small, and they have, germans wanted to go big, and they have. both have their followings, and having used both brands of paint, they're both quality so whatever.
    it was good to read both stories though, especially the german story. alot of the accusations made about them were pretty well cleared up IMO.

    whatever though, i rock black and white 25% more painters touch almost exclusively, so i could care less.
  11. destroya

    destroya Senior Member

    Joined: Sep 30, 2002 Messages: 1,714 Likes Received: 2
    me? a herb? psh, i eat suckers like you.

    they won't sell to me because i'm still technically a minor.
  12. winston

    winston Banned

    Joined: Jun 23, 2003 Messages: 228 Likes Received: 0
    German is just spanish diluted with water.

    IVO AKM KILLERZ Veteran Member

    Joined: Jun 25, 2001 Messages: 6,447 Likes Received: 0
    very good reading, but my personal preference is spanish montana, but i havent tested those montana gold yet.....
  14. DTOK

    DTOK New Jack

    Joined: Jun 14, 2004 Messages: 83 Likes Received: 0
    i tried german montana is okay the air pressure is low which sucks
    but the spanish montana is ill the air pressure is high and you can bust throws real quick and that shit rocks with a pink cap...

    but the smell.... german montana smells better then spanish but spanish is more quality:lick: