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min wage in CA to be raised to $10/hr

Discussion in 'News' started by BOATS N HOES, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. ~KRYLON2~

    ~KRYLON2~ 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Oct 13, 2001 Messages: 10,443 Likes Received: 191
    It'll balance out eventually, the economy in theory is self correcting
     
  2. sexcauldron

    sexcauldron Member

    Joined: Jul 14, 2011 Messages: 439 Likes Received: 34
  3. sexcauldron

    sexcauldron Member

    Joined: Jul 14, 2011 Messages: 439 Likes Received: 34
    I've always enjoyed this paradox. In reality, actual big business uses its power to control market competition in an attempt to not only keep itself on top but also to keep others from reaching its level. Despite the fact that Republicans are often touted as the champions of big business, the Democratic party is usually the engine by which such businesses control the market.

    It's impossible to google anything w/ the phrase "minimum wage" w/o returning a thousand articles about how it would help the economy/workers/etc..., but a year or two ago some economics professor wrote an article about states raising their minimum wage in an effort to increase tax revenue. In general, I remember thinking it was a decent point: injecting more money into the working class while at the same time guaranteeing higher tax revenues. Can't find the article now though unfortunately.
     
  4. massgraff

    massgraff 12oz Royalty

    Joined: Apr 28, 2010 Messages: 24,012 Likes Received: 457
    They're about to raise ours to 11 bucks.
     
  5. Fist 666

    Fist 666 Moderator Crew

    Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Messages: 14,095 Likes Received: 969
  6. CALIgula

    CALIgula Moderator Crew

    Joined: Mar 1, 2004 Messages: 36,278 Likes Received: 1,197
    they are trying to collect signatures to get $15 per hour min wage on the ballot in Davis, CA.
     
  7. CALIgula

    CALIgula Moderator Crew

    Joined: Mar 1, 2004 Messages: 36,278 Likes Received: 1,197
  8. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,811 Likes Received: 822
    Sure, but then won't it just become the most expensive place in the state?
     
  9. CALIgula

    CALIgula Moderator Crew

    Joined: Mar 1, 2004 Messages: 36,278 Likes Received: 1,197
    it really depends on what businesses decide to do...they can pass the buck to the consumer, eat the cost, cut back on quality of products or a combination of all of the above...it will be interesting to see what happens especially since there are a lot of mom and pop shops in davis that might not be able to afford to pay employees that much.

    then again, it is a huge college town and if most of the employees are part time uc davis students and they have extra spending money and keep that money in the local economy by eating out more and buying more products, it might just work.
     
  10. theprotester

    theprotester Moderator Crew

    Joined: Dec 8, 2006 Messages: 10,811 Likes Received: 822
    How long has it been in place in Seattle?
     
  11. sexcauldron

    sexcauldron Member

    Joined: Jul 14, 2011 Messages: 439 Likes Received: 34
    Maryland just passed a law to gradually increase the minimum wage to $10.10 by 2018. I find it interesting that people reference Washington state when advocating for a higher minimum wage though. As you can see here: http://lni.wa.gov/WorkplaceRights/Wages/Minimum/History/default.asp, Washington uses an algorithm based on cost of living research data to calculate their minimum wage on a yearly basis. I actually think that's a pretty great idea, and a better way to determine what the market will bear than a blanket increase in the minimum wage. Washington passed their minimum wage referendum in 1998, prior to that their minimum wage was $5.15, by '99 it was $5.70 and in '00 it was $6.50.
    What does that mean? Well to me it means that Washington is not the be all end all example of why the country can bear a higher minimum wage, far from it in fact. I see a very gradual increase of roughly 20 cents per year on average, MD on the other hand will increase by roughly 75 cents each year until hitting $10.10. I know that seems like a trivial amount, 55 cents difference, but it's not. As you can see here: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm, in 2012 3.6 million people employed in the US made minimum wage or below. Keep in mind that the footnote for that statistic states: "the actual number of workers with earnings at or below the prevailing federal minimum is undoubtedly understated." Point being, a blanket increase in the minimum wage would be a ridiculous cost to employers and it's disingenuous to point to Washington and say "see, higher minimum wages won't cripple the economy." Washington has built a system over a decade in the making, pointing to their end result as a justification for raising the federal minimum belies the process that made it effective in that state. Moreover, even a gradual cost increase should be done gently w/ an eye towards what specific states and geographic markets can actually bear. I'm cool w/ them tying all that in to cost of living, but it has to be at least state specific; ideally, I'd argue it should be more specific than that but that would turn into an argument for vesting minimum wage decisions w/ the states w/o involvement from the federal government.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  12. CILONE/SK

    CILONE/SK 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Jun 25, 2003 Messages: 10,263 Likes Received: 277
    What about people making more money, actually spend more money, which is great for the economy? This is not happening now, because all the gains in the economy have only gone to a few people.
     
  13. CILONE/SK

    CILONE/SK 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Jun 25, 2003 Messages: 10,263 Likes Received: 277
    BTW, the market can't bear an economy where people do not have enough money to buy things and all the capital is hoarded by the greedy 1% who are not taxed properly.
     
  14. sexcauldron

    sexcauldron Member

    Joined: Jul 14, 2011 Messages: 439 Likes Received: 34
    You know that's a two way street, for people to be making more money, employers have to be paying more money. If employers can't pay more money, people get laid off, hours get cut, etc... That's what I mean by what the market can bear, i.e. the amount the minimum wage can be raised before employers have to start laying off people. If the world worked the way your ideology suggests, we should just raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour because then everyone would have more money, right? When we're talking about raising the federal minimum wage it's a very delicate dollars and cents game, that was my point.

    So you're suggesting that people making the minimum wage don't have enough money to buy things and that's bad for the market? Two initial purchasing distinctions I see: necessities and luxury goods. People making minimum wage may not be able to afford luxury goods but I'd like to think they can afford necessities, maybe not for their family of x kids but that's a separate issue. It doesn't really matter though because if you had read the Bureau of Labor and Statistics link I posted you'd know that only 4.7% of all hourly wage earners make at or below minimum wage. Now like the Bureau says, that's definitely an under-representation, but there is simply no denying that minimum wage earners contribute the least to the economy. Thus, what minimum wage earners can afford to purchase is all but irrelevant to the economy and what the market can bear.

    Using divisive rhetoric like the "greedy 1%" cheapens whatever argument or point you may be trying to push. I suggest you watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi8clPrg7kc. Moreover, where is the logic in your train of thought that suggests giving people more money means they'll spend more but if you give the "greedy 1%" more money they'll just hoard it? Not only does your statement suggest an unwarranted demonization of successful people, it also seems to suggest that successful people aren't the main contributors to the economy (both in terms of actual purchases and in terms of employment). So in your world, the big bad 1% just collect capital (through what means might I ask? surely illicit in your opinion or at least in some way undeserved) and hoard it to the detriment of everyone else while plotting ways to skirt the tax code. In the real world, successful people tend to put their earnings back into the economy via old-fashioned spending or employing other people while plotting ways to skirt the tax code. Of course there's a disconnect here because what you actually mean by the "greedy 1%" are people that you perceive to be part of a ruling class, likely tied to big business. Sure those people exist, but the specter of what they represent has been synthesized, distilled, and pre-packaged for your consumption. It comes neatly bundled w/ all economic issues so that the uneducated masses can recognize and relate to it in regards to an otherwise amorphous topic. Both sides do this, you've just chosen the liberal flavor which is designed to breed and foster division between the working class and the rich.
     
  15. CILONE/SK

    CILONE/SK 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Jun 25, 2003 Messages: 10,263 Likes Received: 277
    Nothing that you are saying is supported by anything other than other libertarians.

    I have had this argument here before. Don't feel like having it again.

    Like religion, libertarians have faith in nonsense. There is no changing someone's faith.

    Since the repeal of the Glass Steagall act, we are the closest to a free market we have ever been. Look at how well that has done for us all, except the 1%. The numbers never support the libertarians, which is why their economic theories can't be tested and have never been shown to work, for anyone except for the rich.
     
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