London

First off my thoughts go out to those injured ( or worse ) in todays attack....

This may be a little premature.... but I am feeling particularly paranoid this week. Is it possible that the London bombing was orchastrated to give Tony Blair his own 911. It seems to me that Britain was going to pull out of Iraq. Maybe they can spin this the same way the U.S. has spun Sadam and 911 as if they had something to fo with one another.

R.I.P LONDON DEAD

Yes I heard this, this morning 40 dead and 300 injuried according to Yahoo. Muslims in western counties please be careful if you must go out today.

lets not get into hysterics immediatley saying this is his 911. if anything its he madrid.

that being said its still a horrible situation.

Well, rumour has it it was al qaeda..i dont think its quite the equivalent to 911 - but still fucking sucks..Apparently a dozen have died or something similar.

anyone here in london get hurt?

A group called the secret organization of al queda in europe has claimed responsibility on a website called al kafta (sp?). The website has since been shut down, but it has for a long time been a sounding board for al queda and even Osama Bin Laden himself.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...Hw&refer=europe

There is no official determination on the culprits however. The general consensus is that it is an al queda cell under their direct command, or an umbrella group, or a group inspired by al queda.

The following is in spanish, and I can't read it because I'm a dumb, arrogant american but it has something about al kafta in it:

Quarta-feira, Abril 07, 2004

MAIS DETALHES SOBRE O CRIME ORGANIZADO NO BRASIL

Nas trevas da escuridão!

 

Agamenon Mendes Pedreira

já foi enviado em várias guerras mas prefere não falar sobre este assunto.

 

O mundo está acabando! E começou logo pelo casamento da Luma de Oliveira. E as coisas não param por aí. Comandos terroristas arábico- fanáticos ameaçam a Humanidade com crimes cada vez mais superproduzidos. Dizem que os fascínoras da Al Qaeda contrataram o cineasta Jon Woo para dirigir o seu próximo mega atentado. Em depoimento no Congresso Americano, o ex-diretor da CIA, Anthony Garotinho, revelou que a rede Habib's financia o grupo terroristas Mártires de Al Kafta. Realmente existe algo de muito nebuloso numa rede lanchonetes que consegue o milagre de vender meia dúzia de esfihas por menos de um real! E o Habibs não atua sozinho. Uma vasta rede subterrânea e secreta alia o fast food de kibes ao Clube Monte Líbano, o Kalil M. Gebara Tecidos, o ex-prefeito Paulo Maluf e o empresário Eike Batista que não é árabe mas também esta querendo destruir a civilização judaico-cristã ocidental e o Corpo de Bombeiros. Não necessariamente nesta ordem.

 

O mundo não terá paz enquanto não prenderem o Osama Bin Laden que continua circulando livremente e fazendo o que bem entende, como se fosse um traficante no Rio de Janeiro. Dizem até que o perigoso terrorista internacional foi visto fazendo uma ponta no filme "A Paixão de Cristo", de Mel Lisboa Gibson, onde aparece perseguindo um grupo de judeus. Na verdade, os serviços secretos americanos são muito piores que o do seriado "24 Horas". Por que eles até hoje não conseguiram encontrar o esconderijo do Osama? Ora, todo mundo sabe que um arqui-criminoso deste calibre só pode estar escondido dentro de um vulcão numa ilha deserta como nos filmes do James Bond.

 

Para dar um jeito no terrorismo internacional o presidente Luis Inércio Lula da Silva, sempre pronto para resolver os pobremas da Humanidade, propôs uma taxação, uma espécie de CPMF, para os grupos terroristas internacionais. Para cada atentado sangrento seria cobrada um imposto de 20% . Uma parte ficava com a ONU, outra parte com o Fome Zero e 1% iria para a caixinha do PT.

# posted by Gilson @ 3:48 PM

Taken from here:

http://politsburger.blogspot.com/2004_04_0...er_archive.html

if you're suggesting that this was a conspiracy to swing support for blair i think you are wrong. politics doesn't work that way here as much as in america.

this is one of hundreds of plots in the past four years. I'm just surprised that this is the first to slip past MI5

it's almost certainly orchestrated by the al-quaeda group who claim to have done it. the government here are past trying to swing support for the war against terror, there more into accepting that there is wide opinion and doing what the fuck they like regardless.

i live in london and work in a bar at night, it's been ridiculously busy tonight.

i do blame our foreign policy but i'm starting to get seeeeeriously angry with the way these fucks do direct action. Targetting civilians is like beating up some guys little sister when he pisses you off.

balls

this shit happens every day in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc so hey, I guess we need to wake the fuck up

this shit is never going to end. this sucks.

Its so disgustingly ironic to me how Most of this could all have been avoided if a certain ELECTED President hadnt been ...

RIP London

Bullshit. Bush had fuck-all to do with this. Al-Quaida was trying to terrorize the G8 Summit meeting. My question now is are the British going to show us what they are made of, or are they going to roll over and drop their pants for Al-Quaida like the Spanish people did?

I don't think I'll ever forget that. I could not believe it. I was thinking after the Madrid train bombing that the Spanish people would just go nuts with fury and be screaming for Al-Quaida's blood. What a bunch of PUSSIES.

Eventually, the fucking assholes that did this will be caught, and tried, and sentenced. Too bad they won't be hanged, drawn and quartered, like the old days.

My friend from london was suprised that these people, whoever they are, were able to pull it off given the extensive survielence and intel networks that have been set up in london. But the fact did not come as all that of a suprise, I am in Morocco right now and the empohasis within the television media has been correlaing witht he other events going on in the world.

It seems that this will add more of a justification for the global war on terror although it seems that the western nations military and informal intel has done more to fuel the fire and add justification to such acts that target civilians in western nations. Kabar how would you want england to show the world what they are made of, or the spanish for that matter. In spain public opinion went against the government because they saw the bombings as a the result of correlation with the forign policies of the US in the arab world. I know you have had some interaction with the military and if you are so ready to show the world then drop what your doing and join the army or the cia or the forign service and apply yourself to the fight agianst the perople who are purpotrating terrorist acts in western countries.

Do you really think that increased promotion of power through military, forign policy will alieviate the problem and establish the neccesary international networks that can adequetly deconstruct organizations like alquaida which target civilians in western countries. The very attitude of showing what we are made of has only streangthened the resolve of such organizations and helped increase the ligitamacy of their recriutment messages. The increased presence of the american military abroad makes me feel less safe both at home and abroad. I think that we are doing more to fuck things up in out own twisted language of justification and our global fight against Terrorism. A call for action will only increase the mayhem that the western war on terror is reaking upon the world and prompt continued targeting of civilians in europe and the united states.

I hope that the bombings in london will add to the opposition to the policies of Bush and Blair but I think the opposite will be true.

Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 7 2005, 10:44 PM

Bullshit.  Bush had fuck-all to do with this.  Al-Quaida was trying to terrorize the G8 Summit meeting.  My question now is are the British going to show us what they are made of, or are they going to roll over and drop their pants for Al-Quaida like the Spanish people did?

 

I don't think I'll ever forget that.  I could not believe it.  I was thinking after the Madrid train bombing that the Spanish people would just go nuts with fury and be screaming for Al-Quaida's blood.  What a bunch of PUSSIES.

 

Eventually, the fucking assholes that did this will be caught, and tried, and sentenced.  Too bad they won't be hanged, drawn and quartered, like the old days.

Quoted post

I nominate you official assasin for justice. Go kill these lunatics in the name of justice I will give you shelter..come on, the worlds behind you man, you have to go kill some people...do it!

That said, it sucks things are so black and white. Terrorism is a horrible thing, yet we have no choice to feed into its ultimate goal of absolute conflict. Terrorists clearly want war and we are happy to oblige. And on the other hand, terrorism is the means of the oppressed in a general sense. If this was happening in South America (and in many ways it is and has) we would see it, both red and blue, in a completely diffrent light...

a fucked up day, its been waiting to happen and it has. pure

selfishness thats wat it is. taking innocent peoples lifes, familys with

out fucking kids, kids without mums. it makes me feel sick to the stomach

and its not going to stop. carry on like this and there will be a world war 3

then weve all fucked it.....

rest in peace everyone..

moved*

Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 8 2005, 06:44 AM

Bullshit. Bush had fuck-all to do with this. Al-Quaida was trying to terrorize the G8 Summit meeting. My question now is are the British going to show us what they are made of, or are they going to roll over and drop their pants for Al-Quaida like the Spanish people did?

 

I don't think I'll ever forget that. I could not believe it. I was thinking after the Madrid train bombing that the Spanish people would just go nuts with fury and be screaming for Al-Quaida's blood. What a bunch of PUSSIES.

 

Eventually, the fucking assholes that did this will be caught, and tried, and sentenced. Too bad they won't be hanged, drawn and quartered, like the old days.

Quoted post

you come across like 'Uzi Waving Meathead In Bar' in a dire Van Damme movie circa 1987. so i tell you what, why don't you put on some wristbands, get in your truck, crank up the Whitesnake cassette and go and show some Iraqi insurgents what you're "made of"? :hatred:

It is true that the security apparatus in London is quite extensive after years of dealing with terrorism by the IRA. As one security expert said "If it can happen in London, it can happen anywhere." There were resources diverted to the G8 summit however, which may be why they chose to strike London.

I too am disturbed by these terroristic tactics. They are desparate acts... but I wonder why there is not as much effort to strike at the leadership of our countries? I remember an old war story about a US soldier in WWII who custom made himself a .50 cal sniper rifle from the military model. He was a huge man, and they said the recoil knocked him back about 10 feet, but he could hit targets over a mile away.

Peace to all the victims...

Originally posted by KaBar2@Jul 8 2005, 02:44 AM

Bullshit. Bush had fuck-all to do with this. Al-Quaida was trying to terrorize the G8 Summit meeting. My question now is are the British going to show us what they are made of, or are they going to roll over and drop their pants for Al-Quaida like the Spanish people did?

 

I don't think I'll ever forget that. I could not believe it. I was thinking after the Madrid train bombing that the Spanish people would just go nuts with fury and be screaming for Al-Quaida's blood. What a bunch of PUSSIES.

 

Eventually, the fucking assholes that did this will be caught, and tried, and sentenced. Too bad they won't be hanged, drawn and quartered, like the old days.

Quoted post

Since you are so brave let me ask you something. Who is Al-Qaeda? What do they look like? What are their addresses and phone numbers? You don't know, no one does. So, all you will be doing is killing a bunch of innocent people they you THINK are involved.

So, are you going to Iraq and Afghanistan where terrorist attacks are happening everyday by the coalition soliders and ignorant Muslims (who don't know Islam) and show what you are made of. Or are western lives more important than the eastern.

You shouldn't want justice brought to JUST Al-Qaeda you should want it brought to ALL terrorist and that includes the US coalition for the thousands of innocents killed because of a LIE.

I say otherwise, if bush hadnt Invaded Iraq with the help of britain then would al-queda have even started this jihad agaist the west ? I dont think so, terrorism was largely domestic before Bush's 'war on terror' .

this same thing happens every day in iraq. every single day. And no one can sit here and deny that bush is at least indirectly responsible for all the terrorism in iraq.

What these people did is nothing in comparison to illegally invading a country. They killed 50 people. Big fuckin deal. Bush has killed over a hundred thousand. fifty people die in iraq every fucking day. and bush is indirectly responsible for each and every death.

First of all, if this thread is implying that these attacks were orchestrated by the British government, you just might need to renew your meds. Contrary to what Tom Cruise may tell you, paranoia and other mental illnesses are caused by a chemical unbalance which may be corrected by your medication.

The general consensus in this thread seems to be "This is all because of what's going on in Iraq, we should pull out now, no blood for oil, legalize now!!" ect (maybe not the last one). What fucking war were we in that caused 9-11? Certainly had nothing to do with Iraq, we weren't invading random countries at that point..? Would it be our support of Israel, because I'm pretty sure that would be Hamas's department and not AQ. Please fill me in guys.

Most everyone on here seems ready to blame everyone except the people actually committing the acts of violence. Sure, we have people who are incapable of distinguishing their asses from their elbows in leadership positions now, but we have had trouble with the same organization(s) even with a president more to the left foreign policy-wise in office.

The fact of the matter is that now, we are faced with an enemy that does not want war. They wants to kill civilians to get their point across. They don't care if you disagree with the actions your government is taking, the two major attacks in Europe have a largely anti-war population. If war was what they wanted they would focus on military installations, not people trying to go to their place of work to provide for themselves and their families. For that reason, I dont think lambasting intelligence agencies and kids who might be uninformed, but ready to lay down their lives for their country and it's denizens is of good taste. I'm sure I'll get chewed out for this post because it's not the average point of view found on this website, but there is my .02 none the less.

BTW, way to be completly insensitive "Hobo Knife." Your right, it's only 50 people. They were somehow deserving of death anyway, right?

douche.

Stereotype V.001--- You seem to be missing an important point. Al Queda was created by the US and they became our sworn enemies when we abandoned them and broke our promises to them after the Russians withdrew from Afghanistan. So maybe we should blame Regan for all of this? And blame Bush for making matters worse? Why not be like the rest of the board and blame republicans in general? lol

An important part you might be missing- we didn't create Al Queda, they didn't technically "exist" back then. We funded elements of it, and also provided some assistance with DEVGRU ect against the soviets (thus making the whole "war against the infidel russians" idea go to shit since they had no qualms with accepting help from "the great satan" who also just happens to be infidels, but that is another thread/story)...the lesser of two evils type of thing, because Russia was much more of a threat at the time then Bin Laden was perceived as. We would of been worse off, morally and otherwise, if we had kept promises with them. After the soviets fell, Bin Laden got a big head and basically thought he did it completly on his own, part of the reason for his willingness to take various countries on.

Now, back to lurking.

The fact still remains that 'terrorists' have nothing to lose, YOU, Me, joe blow civilian and lieutenant uninformed still have plenty. So theyre already winning .

Its not that its because they havent attacked us directly.

Terrorism for most of america is not a fact of life whether you believe it or not. The US hasnt been attacked since 911 and since "the war on terrorism" is going on over seas its "out of sight out of mind" please believe if al qaeda started committing regular terrorist attacks on the U.S. that the gloves would really come off.

Apparently I was partially wrong. The funding of the "Islamic Militant Network" began in July of '79, six months prior to the Soviet invasion, and which would make Carter culpable. An interesting discovery, but either way we still created Al Qaeda.

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

More info:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO210B.html

All this (including 9-11, U.S.S. Cole, Spain, London, etc, etc) never would have happened if our government (and other government's dick-eating ours) stayed the fuck out of the Middle-East business (Putting our military bases on their Holly-lands, Backing Isreal, setting up puppet governments, playing hollier than thou world police, etc...) to begin with.

And these insurgents are doing exactly what we would be doing if we were the underdog and some Islamic superpower bombed the shit out of us then invaded us under the lie of spreading "Islamic fundimentalism" to us deprived "infidels", killing thousands of inoscent civillians while pillaging our natural resorces.

And knowing the ignorance level of alot of Americans (espescially the "Christian" Fundamentalists) I wouldn't put it past them to start merking inocent civilians too if we had no other way of fighting back. After all... alot of Americans see them all as discusting animals just like most of them see us all as discusting animals.

Bottom line is if our greedy governments never stuck it's greedy nose in the Middle-Easts buisiness this shit would not even be going down in the first fucking place!

Ever cross yalls mind that if we just stayed the fuck out of their shit, they'ed be staying the fuck out of ours???

Its too late for any of that now.

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Jul 8 2005, 05:56 PM

If war was what they wanted they would focus on military installations, not people trying to go to their place of work to provide for themselves and their families.

 

 

BTW, way to be completly insensitive "Hobo Knife." Your right, it's only 50 people. They were somehow deserving of death anyway, right?

douche.

Quoted post

-You of all people should realize THIS IS WAR. This is the only way they can stand up against all the power and money and high-tech military their opponents have. That's great advice though, I'm sure if Al-Quaeda set up military installations it would be a real cool war, with lots of great war strategy, just like those cool war games. yay.

Oh and I didn't mean to be insensitive about those people dying. it's just hard for me to show much more sympathy for these dead people than the 8,000 PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIED IN IRAQ IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS. My heart goes out to all innocent casualties, in england and iraq and afghanistan...but at this point, 50 people dying is an every day thing with a war going on or not.

Originally posted by Stereotype V.001@Jul 8 2005, 03:47 PM

An important part you might be missing- we didn't create Al Queda, they didn't technically "exist" back then. We funded elements of it, and also provided some assistance with DEVGRU ect against the soviets (thus making the whole "war against the infidel russians" idea go to shit since they had no qualms with accepting help from "the great satan" who also just happens to be infidels, but that is another thread/story)...the lesser of two evils type of thing, because Russia was much more of a threat at the time then Bin Laden was perceived as. We would of been worse off, morally and otherwise, if we had kept promises with them. After the soviets fell, Bin Laden got a big head and basically thought he did it completly on his own, part of the reason for his willingness to take various countries on.

 

Now, back to lurking.

Quoted post

So I guess the human rights abuses at the hands of right wing governments in central and south America were just us kind of dabbling in affaisrs. The coups and the assasinations were just a little thing we were a minor player in...

The most ironic part of the war in iraq is that Bin Laden had beef with Iraq which we NEVER hear about:

So we support Bin Laden during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, we give millions to the cause and Bin Laden is everyones war hero.

Than Saddam invades Kuwait, a land historically part of Iraq anyway (because the British drew the borders) and a country that relieved Irans war dbts from the IRan and Iraq war but decided to make Iraq pay. Bin Laden wants to fight Iraq, beleiving Saddams war is unjust. Kuwait opts instead for U.S. support reinforcing Bin Ladens beleifs that much of the Arab world is controlled by the United States who only defends the right when it lines its pockets. He felt that if he could fight the Communists, he could fight this mustached wacko and win...he was a hero and a staunch beleiver in defending the Muslim/Arab world agaisnt attackers, but became an enemy because he disagreed with the countries that accepted U.S. control and hated the U.S. because of its manipulation and bluntly selfish acts...these are not conspiracy theories, much of this was documented by Frontline. Bin Laden was our friend

He rose to power, just as the Taliban did and Saddam did with our money and open alliance. Than, when they no longer fit our needs we turned agaisnt them. None of these men are "good" but we are on there level in the worst way, we embrace the evil they are capable of when we need it, and than kill them when they are no longer useful. That isn't theory, or rhetoric, thats history...

As for the dead on the subway, that is horrible. If only every building full of people killed in Iraq and the Gaza strip received front page, around the clock coverage the way those subway passengers did, maybe we might all learn something about each other.