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Kill your grandparents

Discussion in 'Channel Zero' started by Overtime, Aug 9, 2004.

  1. Overtime

    Overtime Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 22, 2003 Messages: 13,989 Likes Received: 313
    The two teenage girls spent much of that day holed up in the elderly couple's basement. They had smoked marijuana, authorities say. Each had a knife.

    On her arm, authorities say, 15-year-old Holly Harvey had written a to-do list — Kill. Keys. Money. Jewelry.

    Families of the two teenage girls accused of killing an elderly couple sit in a Fayette County court Thursday as the defendants are brought in. Authorities say the crime was planned.

    It was Monday afternoon, and Sarah Collier, Harvey's grandmother, waited for her husband to return from a painting job. Authorities suspect she wanted to confront Harvey and her friend, 16-year-old Sandy Ketchum, about the smell of marijuana emanating from the basement of the north Fayette County home, where Harvey lived with her grandparents.

    As Sarah and Carl Collier walked into a bedroom in the basement, Harvey lunged at her grandmother and began stabbing her, investigators say. At some point, Sarah, 73, and Carl, 77, pinned Holly down. The girl yelled for her friend to help.

    Lt. Col. Bruce Jordan of the Fayette County Sheriff's Department says that's when Ketchum crawled from under the bed and began stabbing Sarah Collier as Harvey chased after her grandfather, who had run upstairs to call for help.

    In the kitchen, he and his granddaughter struggled. Authorities say he, too, was stabbed more than 15 times before falling dead. The kitchen telephone, investigators say, had been yanked off the wall.

    On Thursday, shortly after Jordan laid out the crime in disturbing detail, the two girls appeared in Fayette County Magistrate Court, quivering and sobbing under their bulletproof vests.

    The handcuffed girls — standing barely 5 feet tall — seemed confused as they entered the courtroom.

    Harvey cried throughout the hearing, putting her head down and shaking when Magistrate Judge Charles Floyd Jr. read her grandparents' names. Her court-appointed attorney, Judy Chidester, tried to comfort Harvey, placing her right hand on the girl's shoulder during the hearing.

    Chidester said Harvey told her, 'I can't believe they're dead.'"

    "Regardless of what you think of her, these were her grandparents," Chidester said. "During the entire hearing she was crying. I think she's pretty much acting like a scared 15-year-old, which is exactly what she is."

    Ketchum, slightly taller than Harvey, with deep reddish brown hair, was also crying. Her face crumpled when she glanced back at her family members while being led out of the room.

    Afterward, her family did not want to talk to reporters.

    Lloyd Walker, Ketchum's court-appointed attorney, said the girl understands the charges against her, but is in shock.

    "The reality of what it means to her life, no, she doesn't understand," Lloyd said.

    The girls are being held in separate facilities under suicide watch.

    Friday, Chief Superior Court Judge Paschal A. English Jr. set an Aug. 19 bond hearing for the girls.

    Lloyd Walker, Ketchum's court-appointed attorney, said he will ask for a bond for his client. But, he said it is doubtful his client's family could afford the bond if the judge agrees to set one.

    "If Judge English sets bond I don't think it will be a small bond," Walker said.

    A foreboding poem

    Since Tuesday's arrest, the case has piqued the nation's curiosity.

    How, people wonder, could two young girls be charged with such a heinous crime?

    And what may have driven them to kill, as authorities allege?

    Jordan says the two were involved in a forbidden romantic relationship. The girls carried out the slayings, he said, to "gain freedom and be able to stay together forever."

    On Thursday, police released photos of two bloody knives they said were used in the attacks — one a butcher's knife, the other used for filleting. A third smaller knife was found in Harvey's pocket.

    Authorities say they found the knives in a backpack when the girls were arrested.

    Jordan has described Harvey has a manipulative, cold-blooded killer. Harvey's attorney, however, described the girl as a sobbing 15-year-old who doesn't understand the long-range implication of what's happened.

    Those conflicting portrayals, explained Cathy Blusiewicz, an Atlanta psychologist who specializes in child and family issues, illustrate the two sides of childhood.

    "There is the childlike immaturity of not really understanding what she did, while at the same time wanting what happened to have happened," Blusiewicz said. "As hard as it is for an adult to understand this, many children don't realize how final death is."

    Since their arrest, a clearer — though still fuzzy — portrait has emerged of the two girls.

    For years, Harvey had been living off and on with her grandparents, most recently since late spring, when her mother, Carla Harvey, 37, began serving a three-year term for marijuana possession.

    "Holly begged to come live with them; the family she was with was trying to discipline her," said Betty Green, a friend of the Colliers. "So the grandparents felt sorry for her and took her in."

    Her father has been "nonexistent" in her life, said Kevin Collier, Harvey's uncle and the couple's son.

    The most recent stay with the Colliers had been tumultuous, with Harvey repeatedly running away, using drugs and arguing with her grandparents, according to family members and investigators.

    Green said that at 3:30 in the afternoon Monday, she called Sarah Collier.

    Collier was distressed, Green said.

    "She said Holly had been locked in her room all day, that she hadn't seen her all day," Green said. "She was alienating herself. She felt helpless. She couldn't do anything with her."

    Recently, Harvey had told her grandparents she wanted to drive to Florida, but they refused, reminding her that school was ready to start, according to friends of the Colliers'.

    This angered Harvey, they said.

    Investigators say they have found a poem Harvey had written. In the poem, she described how depressed she had been and that she cried herself to sleep.

    In that poem, Jordan said, Harvey wrote that she wanted to kill.

    Said Jordan: "She wished for everyone to suffer the way she suffered."

    Ketchum, Jordan said, "was in it for the love."

    Still, little is known about Ketchum.

    She and Harvey met in middle school, friends say.

    She attended an alternative school until February 2003, said Melinda Berry-Dreisbach, a Fayette County schools spokeswoman.

    She and her father used to live on Stephens Street, in a blue-collar neighborhood in Fayetteville.

    Melissa Shepherd, a friend of Ketchum's, remembers the girl as a kind person.

    "I can't imagine her doing anything like this," Shepherd said.

    Ketchum moved away from her Fayetteville neighborhood about a year ago, though it's not clear where she was living.

    Shepherd said Ketchum's father remarried, which made Sandy Ketchum feel displaced.

    Since Ketchum was arrested, Jordan said, he has had long conversations with the girl. He said she has been cooperating with investigators and has expressed "extreme remorse."

    Calls to tell friends

    After Monday's slayings, police say, the girls made off with the dead couple's blue 2002 Chevrolet Silverado truck.

    They visited Sara Polk, a friend in Griffin.

    Jamie Donaldson, Polk's mother, said the two called and asked if they could take showers and clean up. They told Sara they had been beaten up, Donaldson said in an interview Thursday night.

    "I had just driven in and saw Sara standing at a truck talking to some people," recalled Donaldson. "The next thing I know she comes inside screaming, 'People have been murdered.' "

    Harvey and Ketchum told Sara they had killed Harvey's grandparents and showed her the bloody knives, Donaldson said.

    The family called 911.

    Harvey and Ketchum drove toward Savannah, calling their friends on the grandparents' cellphone.

    "They were asking if they had seen the news," Jordan said.

    As they drove on I-16 toward the Georgia coast, the girls told their friends what they had done, Jordan said.

    Several of those friends then called police with tips.

    "We got lot of informants quickly that night," said Jordan.

    The two girls drove to Tybee Island, where they met Brian Clayton, 22, and his 14-year-old brother walking on the beach, according to an article in the Savannah Morning News.

    The girls asked Brian for a cigarette and joined the brothers for a stroll. The girls spent the night in the home Clayton's mother had just rented.

    The family thought they was helping runaways, said Clayton's mother, Trish, a nurse who identified herself only by her first name.

    "These girls were very young," she told the Savannah Morning News. "They were dirty. I thought something was up, you know, maybe they were runaways. I just wanted to make sure they were OK.

    "Who knows what else they were capable of?" she said. "They could have been waiting around to kill us and take my money. We're lucky to be alive."

    Jordan agrees.

    The boys and their mother, he said Thursday, were in danger because the young fugitives needed money and to get rid of the truck and take another vehicle.

    Police arrested them at the house about 2 p.m. Tuesday. The girls were handcuffed, but Harvey, who has petite arms, tried to slip out of the restraints, Jordan said.

    When she was led out of the room, she saw more than a score of police and laughed, Jordan said.

    "It almost made her giddy," he said, "to know we brought that many officers to arrest her."

    — Staff writers Bill Torpy, Henry Farber and Don Plummer contributed to this report.

    i cant find the other story that was on the front page today, maybe some of you have seen this in the news
  2. anonymity1

    anonymity1 Senior Member

    Joined: Apr 28, 2003 Messages: 1,945 Likes Received: 0
    Oh god...I can just see this spawning more of those awulf anti marijuana commercials.
    They gotta understand some people are just fucked up regardless of what they are smoking
  3. why write?

    why write? Veteran Member

    Joined: Oct 19, 2003 Messages: 5,859 Likes Received: 1
    crazy mother fuckers.
  4. Overtime

    Overtime Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 22, 2003 Messages: 13,989 Likes Received: 313
    thats my home town too, awesome huh!
  5. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
  6. Weapon X

    Weapon X 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Sep 6, 2002 Messages: 14,905 Likes Received: 202
    I killed a man in Reno because I got high.

    Oh, and I guess that’s what happens when you name your daughter Harvey.
  7. why write?

    why write? Veteran Member

    Joined: Oct 19, 2003 Messages: 5,859 Likes Received: 1
    i think harvey was the last name....but fuck grandparents, i hate mine..
  8. Kr430n5_666

    Kr430n5_666 Banned

    Joined: Oct 6, 2004 Messages: 19,229 Likes Received: 30
  9. Dick Quickwood

    Dick Quickwood 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Aug 25, 2002 Messages: 14,783 Likes Received: 14
  10. Weapon X

    Weapon X 12oz Loyalist

    Joined: Sep 6, 2002 Messages: 14,905 Likes Received: 202
    That Harvey girl’s mom was doing 3 years for marijuana position. That’s fucked up. OK USA!
  11. fermentor666

    fermentor666 Veteran Member

    Joined: Sep 27, 2003 Messages: 8,152 Likes Received: 15

    Reminds me of the movie "Heavenly Creatures" which was based on a true story. Except for even more fucked up.

    These girls should be locked up for a very long time.
  12. iloveboxcars

    iloveboxcars 12oz Royalty

    Joined: Jul 29, 2002 Messages: 20,506 Likes Received: 450
    This is one of the very few murders that actually made me feel some sort of emotion. This is one of the most tragic stories I have ever heard. Holy fuck.
  13. sneak

    sneak Guest

    lol, thats true. 3 years? must have been caught with a fair few bars....
  14. Jake Stevens

    Jake Stevens Senior Member

    Joined: Sep 26, 2002 Messages: 1,663 Likes Received: 9
    haha that shit fucked up..
  15. Overtime

    Overtime Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: Apr 22, 2003 Messages: 13,989 Likes Received: 313
    no, it wasent just one offense, she was in and out for i think 5 or six years for more than just that, i think that was the last straw. I know it was more, this story just dopsent tell it. i just got out of court, damn court