Juvenile Death Penalty Ruled Unconstitutional

High court: Juvenile death penalty unconstitutional

Tuesday, March 1, 2005 Posted: 1:10 PM EST (1810 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that the Constitution forbids the execution of killers who were under 18 when they committed their crimes, ending a practice used in 19 states.

The 5-4 decision throws out the death sentences of about 70 juvenile murderers and bars states from seeking to execute minors for future crimes.

The executions, the court said, violate the Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

The ruling continues the court's practice of narrowing the scope of the death penalty, which justices reinstated in 1976. The court in 1988 outlawed executions for those 15 and younger when they committed their crimes. Three years ago justices banned executions of the mentally retarded.

Tuesday's ruling prevents states from making 16- and 17-year-olds eligible for execution.

"The age of 18 is the point where society draws the line for many purposes between childhood and adulthood. It is, we conclude, the age at which the line for death eligibility ought to rest," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote.

Juvenile offenders have been put to death in recent years in only a few other countries, including Iran, Pakistan, China and Saudi Arabia. Kennedy cited international opposition to the practice.

"It is proper that we acknowledge the overwhelming weight of international opinion against the juvenile death penalty, resting in large part on the understanding that the instability and emotional imbalance of young people may often be a factor in the crime," he wrote...

Justices were called on to draw an age line in death cases after Missouri's highest court overturned the death sentence given to Christopher Simmons, who was 17 when he kidnapped a neighbor, hog-tied her and threw her off a bridge in 1993. Prosecutors say he planned the burglary and killing of Shirley Crook and bragged that he could get away with it because of his age.

...The 19 states allow executions for people under age 18 are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Utah, Texas and Virginia.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/01/scotus.d...y.ap/index.html

thank god. hopefully the death penalty as a whole goes next.

yea fuck the death penalty.

the government could totally just fabricate an lie about your life and have you executed for it!*

*Speculating.

I personally think they should be sentenced life in prison rather than be put to death. I still think lethal injection is one soft ass death penalty.

plus with all the legal hoops they have to jump through to get someone killed it would be a cost savings to let these guys rot in cell.

Good. Thats one problem down, only 175,182,376,220 problems to go. On the real though, thats a good thing. The system doesnt fuck around with juveniles even for petty shit. this country needs to well, not "soften up" on crime all together but maybe focus its energies on on "hard crimes", maybe we wouldnt be locking up as many people as we are now, i live in california so i know about that shit.

I'm waiting for bobthebuilder to come in here and say some stupid shit about how we should kill minors. I'm surprised this would happen under the Bush administration.

Originally posted by CACashRefund@Mar 1 2005, 06:09 PM

Good. Thats one problem down, only 175,182,376,220 problems to go. On the real though, thats a good thing. The system doesnt fuck around with juveniles even for petty shit. this country needs to well, not "soften up" on crime all together but maybe focus its energies on on "hard crimes", maybe we wouldnt be locking up as many people as we are now, i live in california so i know about that shit.

Quoted post

I think if you kill someone (except in the case of self defence) you should get some kind of punishment, but for fucks sake if someone sells like a little bag of drugs they get like 30 years in prison. That's totally fucked up.

Yeah it's real nice seeing my state as one that executes minors.

our system relies too much on punishment and not enough on education. if you dont give someone a way to get out of their "life of crime" they arent going to stop.

Originally posted by ERIZENO@Mar 1 2005, 06:17 PM

plus with all the legal hoops they have to jump through to get someone killed it would be a cost savings to let these guys rot in cell.

Quoted post

it costs MORE to execute someone than to imprison them for life.

...the cost of keeping a 25-year-old inmate for 50 years at present amounts to $805,000. Assuming 75 years as an average life span, the $805,000 figure would be the cost of life in prison. So roughly it's costing us $2 million more to execute someone than it would cost to keep them in jail for life. This is just the dollar cost, the externalities will be discussed in a moment....

from:

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

Some of these prisons make money off head counts. And some of them are like wage slave factories.

Wake up people. Are there a bunch of tree hugging liberals in here?

The death penalty is a great idea!

IF some stupid ass minor (or an adult) wants to go rob a store for some easy money, and ends up killing someone, that little dumbshit needs to DIE!!!

What if he killed your sister, mom, grandma, girlfriend, wife, son, daughter??? Wouldn't you want that son of bitch dead? I know I would!

We spend to much money on housing a bunch of criminals anyway.

Prison isn't supposed to be fun.

I also think there needs to be a major reform in the educational system in America! That's where the problem starts in the first place. I don't think that the rich areas need to have better schools, but what teacher would want to teach at a school where he/she is disrespected by the students and possibly attacke or shot?

People need to take responsability for there actions.

Originally posted by symbols+Mar 1 2005, 11:25 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (symbols - Mar 1 2005, 11:25 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ERIZENO@Mar 1 2005, 06:17 PM

plus with all the legal hoops they have to jump through to get someone killed it would be a cost savings to let these guys rot in cell.

Quoted post

it costs MORE to execute someone than to imprison them for life.

...the cost of keeping a 25-year-old inmate for 50 years at present amounts to $805,000. Assuming 75 years as an average life span, the $805,000 figure would be the cost of life in prison. So roughly it's costing us $2 million more to execute someone than it would cost to keep them in jail for life. This is just the dollar cost, the externalities will be discussed in a moment....

from:

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

[/b]

So you agree with me ... good.

I didn’t mean to leave out "in a" cell but I liked the way it read, almost like hell but cell...

To me it’s about my tax dollars ... straight up. Save my money and make that fuck miserable in a cell for good, no parole, no good behavior, just a cube of cement and 3 squares a day. Fuck 'em that’s worse to me that letting them off and taking their life.

And don’t get me wrong I am not opposed to the death penalty, but it’s a debate that will never end. If we keep it I think we should go back to public killings.. Maybe bring the guillotine back or fuck it even hangings...

Originally posted by AW@Mar 2 2005, 07:20 AM

Wake up people. Are there a bunch of tree hugging liberals in here?

 

The death penalty is a great idea!

 

IF some stupid ass minor (or an adult) wants to go rob a store for some easy money, and ends up killing someone, that little dumbshit needs to DIE!!!

 

What if he killed your sister, mom, grandma, girlfriend, wife, son, daughter??? Wouldn't you want that son of bitch dead? I know I would!

 

We spend to much money on housing a bunch of criminals anyway.

Prison isn't supposed to be fun.

 

I

Quoted post

I don't think revenge, which you would likely hold synonomous with justice, is the means to healing for victims or for a better society. To kill in retaliation for killing is to make ones guilt mute, our system is built on the notion that the system itself is one that has errors or is open to the influence of corruption - hense 'innocent until proven guilty', the three branch system, tiered courts and an array of mechanisms designed to keep the state locally and federally honest. If we take a flawed individual and kill him at at the hands of a flawed system than we are hypocrits before anything else and have placed the state as ideal and above its citizens and its own admitted inherant errors. We stop our own direction towards improvement as a just and equal society when we decide that the state is perfect enough that it has the right to the ultimate and irreversable death of fits own. Your arguments are all emotional, but I'll say if anyone close to me was killed I would not wish them death in any real way, how bout that?...and the last quote (in line with the rest of your writing there) seems to imply that we should kill criminals because we spend too much money and prison is fun, did I get you wrong? We could always drop some narcotics laws, or divert funds into other more productive systems...but I don't know, maybe the criminals enjoy the fun time so they'd just find another way in to the arcade which is jail

Originally posted by AW@Mar 2 2005, 10:20 AM

Wake up people. Are there a bunch of tree hugging liberals in here?

 

The death penalty is a great idea!

 

IF some stupid ass minor (or an adult) wants to go rob a store for some easy money, and ends up killing someone, that little dumbshit needs to DIE!!!

 

What if he killed your sister, mom, grandma, girlfriend, wife, son, daughter??? Wouldn't you want that son of bitch dead? I know I would!

 

We spend to much money on housing a bunch of criminals anyway.

Prison isn't supposed to be fun.

 

I also think there needs to be a major reform in the educational system in America! That's where the problem starts in the first place. I don't think that the rich areas need to have better schools, but what teacher would want to teach at a school where he/she is disrespected by the students and possibly attacke or shot?

 

People need to take responsability for there actions.

Quoted post

You are a fucking moron and you should leave. Take bobthebuilder with you.

Jesus always said to forgive.

Death penalty and life imprisonment is the same to me, so I'd go with whatever is cheaper.

I think they should make it peoples choice. If your sentenced to life without parole then you should have the option of getting the death penalty or living in a cell the rest of your life. This should apply to everyone except the mentally retarded.

And AW, never speak again

GOOD , sentencing someone under 18 or even 19 or 20 or whatever to death is absolutely insane . When i was young i did alot of stupid shit , broke the law got arrested , some serious shit . Now that im older i realize i REALLY didnt understand the nature of what i was doing nor the consequences of those actions.

As far as the death penalty goes i think its almost barbaric , And for the most part it should be banned. However if someone raped ank killed my mother/daughter/sister etc. i'd definately be all for the death penalty.

The other arguement for it is that is it worth it to keep seriously crazy ppl like serial murderers or rapists alive and costing joe blow tax payer millions of dollars each year , or give them the death penalty and be done with it .

Originally posted by ASER1NE@Mar 3 2005, 03:24 PM

As far as the death penalty goes i think its almost barbaric , And for the most part it should be banned. However if someone raped ank killed my mother/daughter/sister etc. i'd definately be all for the death penalty.

The other arguement for it is that is it worth it to keep seriously crazy ppl like serial murderers or rapists alive and costing joe blow tax payer millions of dollars each year , or give them the death penalty and be done with it .

Quoted post

So you think the death penalty is bad but have no intention of living by your beliefs if it actually effected you in anyway? Doesn't that work both ways? Like if you don't really believe in anything, than why wouldn't I kill you mother? I mean, it would be barbaric and all but still at least I wouldn't kill my own mom...

And as for "keeping people alive" I don't think you're gonna see any tax breaks for killing the murderers. That save the tax payers shit is the most ridiculously unfounded and played out rationale ever for anything and is the the back drop for uninformed, illogical, vague and under contemplated ideas. Me personally I'd rather not have someone die so that, once a year, it will save me the cost equivalent of a 7-layer barito at Taco Bell or less...

Originally posted by ODS-1@Mar 3 2005, 03:19 PM

You are a fucking moron and you should leave. Take bobthebuilder with you.

Quoted post

Your the last one on here that should call anyone a moron. Just look at all your posts. They speak for themselves.

Originally posted by AW+Mar 4 2005, 10:12 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AW - Mar 4 2005, 10:12 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ODS-1@Mar 3 2005, 03:19 PM

You are a fucking moron and you should leave. Take bobthebuilder with you.

Quoted post

Your the last one on here that should call anyone a moron. Just look at all your posts. They speak for themselves.

[/b]

Atleast it's not republican rightwing bullshit. Come on, executing kids? Sure kids can be little fucking assholes but they're still young. A lot of times they don't know what they're doing. And shit, executing someone because it's cheaper? Get real here. Why don't we gas all the little retarded kids because programs for them cost too much?

Were not talking about just executing a kid for hitting someone, or for stealing a car or for being an asshole, were talking about kids commiting Capital Murder.

If your 17 and don't know that murduring and torturing people isn't a good idea, then I think it's obvious that this person isn't playing with a full deck.

You make it sound like were just pulling kids out of class for drawing in their school books and killing them.

out of interest, is america the only wetern/european govt. which still uses the death penalty?

Originally posted by KING BLING+Mar 3 2005, 07:51 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KING BLING - Mar 3 2005, 07:51 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ASER1NE@Mar 3 2005, 03:24 PM

As far as the death penalty goes i think its almost barbaric , And for the most part it should be banned. However if someone raped ank killed my mother/daughter/sister etc. i'd definately be all for the death penalty.

The other arguement for it is that is it worth it to keep seriously crazy ppl like serial murderers or rapists alive and costing joe blow tax payer millions of dollars each year , or give them the death penalty and be done with it .

Quoted post

So you think the death penalty is bad but have no intention of living by your beliefs if it actually effected you in anyway? Doesn't that work both ways? Like if you don't really believe in anything, than why wouldn't I kill you mother? I mean, it would be barbaric and all but still at least I wouldn't kill my own mom...

And as for "keeping people alive" I don't think you're gonna see any tax breaks for killing the murderers. That save the tax payers shit is the most ridiculously unfounded and played out rationale ever for anything and is the the back drop for uninformed, illogical, vague and under contemplated ideas. Me personally I'd rather not have someone die so that, once a year, it will save me the cost equivalent of a 7-layer barito at Taco Bell or less...

[/b]

Well to be honest yeah, I dont really think that its a very intelligent or civilized way of dealing with criminals,(Nor do i think the prison system is but thats another thread) and shows the lack of concious progression in our society . BUT, like i said if it were up to me whether or not my daughters/mothers/sisters etc. killer did or didnt get the death penalty i would suddenly become blind to my beliefs . Maybe thats uninformed, illogical, vague and under contemplated, But oh well , i never said my beliefs were the right ones , or any more important than anyone elses.

I guess its kind of like the idea that most Aethiests or non-believers suddenly discard their beliefs(or lack of) in the face of death .

As far as the saving tax money , i personallly dont believe thats the case , i was just stating one af many ongoing arguments .

When I think of all the fucked up ways kids grow up and all the shit they deal with these days, I don't think I would condemn a kid to death. Kids are undeveloped. That goes for mentally as well. Problems should be detected and resolved before it becomes this serious.

I sympathize because I know that could have been me on death row.

But personally I think I would opt for death over life in prison.

Originally posted by villain@Mar 8 2005, 01:17 AM

When I think of all the fucked up ways kids grow up and all the shit they deal with these days

Quoted post

I hate to be the one who apparently doesn't agree with 99% of the people here, but what do kids have to deal with that's so different than 30 or 40 years ago?

There was terrorism there was the big Oil/Gas shortage in the 70's, there were gangs, there were riots, drugs etc.

i just dont understand the argument that a 17 or 16 or 15 year is responsible for his actions, and they cant vote, or sign up for the army, buy smokes, porn or booze...

if they are so responsible that the state can impose the death penalty, then arent they responsible enough to elect who the state is?

i mean if thats your logic, then fine, but do away with the social double standards...

you cant have your cake and it eat too...

echo*

I was 18 when the drinking age was 18. I joined the ARMY when I was 18 also, but before I turned 21, the drinking age went up to 21. I could die for my country but could not drink beer. I was stationed in Germany, so I was able to drink, but in America, I couldn't by law.

Who gives a shit! I drank anyway and didn't bitch about it. Maybe the problem with certain youth is that they aren't willing to mature at 16 or 17. They should already have a job at 16 (in some cases 15).

If they don't know by now that murder, rape, arson, robbery is wrong, then they have serious problems to begin with.

As far as booze porn and cigarettes go, if there's a will there's a way.

Do you honestly believe that there are no 15, 16 or 17 year old that drink, smoke or look at porn? If so, your living in a bubble.

Bottom line is "Can't do the time, Don't do the crime"