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Israel Grounds Pilots Who Refused Mission

Discussion in 'News' started by mental invalid, Sep 25, 2003.

  1. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    Israel Grounds Pilots Who Refused Mission



    By KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer

    JERUSALEM - Israel on Thursday temporarily grounded reserve air force pilots who — in an unprecedented protest — condemned airstrikes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as "immoral" and refused to fly such sorties.


    The declaration by 27 pilots, including nine on active duty, was widely criticized in Israel as subversive at a time of war, but it also revived a flagging debate on the ethics of Israel's three-year war on Palestinian militants.


    The protest struck a nerve because many Israelis believe their military has higher moral standards than that of their neighbors, and that other countries would have been much more ruthless.


    The military is also seen as an institution that binds the fractious nation; Israelis get jittery at signs of cracks in the ranks. The air force in particular is considered key to Israel's survival, and pilots are held in the highest regard. Critics also say such talk gives ammunition to Israel's enemies.


    Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said the rebel pilots would be dealt with swiftly.


    "Everyone can express his opinion, but it is unacceptable that a group of people in the military would interfere in a subject that does not apply to them," he told Israel TV.


    The air force quickly tried to contain the damage. Commander Maj. Gen. Dan Halutz said the nine active pilots, grounded for now, could face suspension and perhaps military jail if they don't retract.


    He said the rebels are a tiny minority among thousands of pilots. Hundreds of pilots began circulating declarations Thursday that expressed support for their commanders.


    The protesters came under fire for mixing their moral dilemma with political opinion — their declaration said the continued occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip corrupts society.


    Even moderate Israelis said this is a mistake, because it could set a precedent. "When the time comes, say, to remove settlers from their homes, other people in the army or in the air force will say they don't want to obey these orders in the same way," said Col. Uri Dromi, an air force reservist.


    Veteran journalist Dan Margalit wrote in a front-page commentary in the Maariv daily that the pilots abused their exalted standing.


    "If their idea is accepted, Ahmed Yassin and his compatriots in the Hamas leadership will be able to plan the next murder of Jewish children on a Jerusalem bus without interference," Margalit wrote, referring to an August bus bombing that killed 23 people, six of them children.


    Only veteran leaders of Israel's dovish left, including Yossi Sarid and Shulamit Aloni of the Meretz party, defended the pilots.


    Several hundred Israelis have refused to serve in the West Bank and Gaza. There have been protests such as last weekend's Tel Aviv rally in which several thousand called for ending the occupation. But no major anti-war movement has emerged during the current fighting with the Palestinians, and most Israelis support the military's actions.


    The group of 27 is informally led by Brig. Gen. Yiftah Spector, a highly decorated retired pilot who, according to Israeli media, took part in the bombing of an Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981.


    In their petition, the pilots said airstrikes on crowded Palestinian areas are "illegal and immoral."


    In three years of fighting, Israeli pilots have carried out hundreds of airstrikes, targeting Palestinian police installations and weapons workshops of militants. The most controversial involve targeted killings in which helicopters — and sometimes warplanes — fire rockets and bombs at cars and homes of Palestinian militants.



    Some 140 wanted Palestinians have died in targeted raids, according to Palestinian medical officials, though the figure also includes those killed resisting arrest. More than 100 bystanders have also died, they said.

    The Israeli public, traumatized by a Palestinian suicide bombing campaign that has killed hundreds since September 2000, largely supports the targeted killings.

    A watershed for some pilots was last year's attack on Salah Shehadeh, leader of the Hamas military wing. A one-ton bomb killed Shehadeh, an assistant and 14 civilians, nine of them children. Halutz, the air force commander, had said he felt the bombing was morally correct.

    In response to last month's Jerusalem bombing, Israel accelerated targeted attacks, killing 13 Hamas members and six bystanders in nearly a dozen airstrikes in Gaza City.

    One of the 27 pilots, identified only as Capt. Alon, told the Yediot Ahronot daily he was now ashamed to be a member of the air force. "It's an organization that has no qualms about dropping bombs ... on the densest neighborhoods in the world ...," he was quoted as saying.

    Brig. Gen. Eliezer Shakedi, a senior air force official, said great efforts are made to keep Palestinian civilians from harm, and that some missions were aborted if the risk to innocents was too high.

    It was the first time pilots have come out openly against air force policy. In the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, some expressed reservations about bombing cities and refugee camps but did not go public.
     
  2. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
  3. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2000 Messages: 6,979 Likes Received: 2
    you know what allways kills me....

    no... not missles.

    the fact that the story of David and Goliath is part of
    Hebrew learning but Isreal cant seem to actually understand it.
     
  4. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    no....not missles



    hahahaha.....


    yeah seriously......its just such an ugly situation.......just chaos
     
  5. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2000 Messages: 6,979 Likes Received: 2
    the thing that really kills me ( even more than the missles!)
    is the living conditions in Palestine. A friend was there and he
    saw they way some people live. There's mud brick housing with
    open sewers (ditches) running in front of every house.

    Now this isn't like Lybia or Somalia where people grew up in these
    conditions and dont know any better. These are men who had normal
    houses and some level of comfort before the occupation. Take away
    everything that a man has and he will act like an animal.
     
  6. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    i hear you man.....its fucking wrong, and now they wanna build a wall for security purposes....this will only cause more violence....


    in the same way, what do you do if your israel? arafat is a joke...
     
  7. im not witty

    im not witty Guest

    Those pilots have balls. im glad though, im sick of hearing my jewish roomate spout bullshit he learned as a child about palestinians, and refusing to see the issue from the other side. I always love to see jews protest against israel.
     
  8. Tbious One

    Tbious One Junior Member

    Joined: Nov 2, 2002 Messages: 111 Likes Received: 0
    Well, it IS just chaos.
    Each side get fucked up.
    But just to add - the Palastinians terror leaders get civilians around them to make it "morally incorrect"...
    Its not that people just stand there.


    Though both sides are fucked up:(
     
  9. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    are you really in israel man??
     
  10. im not witty

    im not witty Guest

    "ill fight a tank with a shank, and thats my fucking word"
     
  11. Tbious One

    Tbious One Junior Member

    Joined: Nov 2, 2002 Messages: 111 Likes Received: 0
  12. --zeSto--

    --zeSto-- Veteran Member

    Joined: Jul 12, 2000 Messages: 6,979 Likes Received: 2
    can you believe he won the nobel peace prize?

    he sure isn't acting like it these days.
    As much as I'm not about the Isreali policies,
    they do have a very hard time making anything stick
    with Arafat as a point person on the other side of the table.

    here's an interesting chart...

    http://www.ict.org.il/casualties_project/s.../stats_page.cfm
     
  13. Tbious One

    Tbious One Junior Member

    Joined: Nov 2, 2002 Messages: 111 Likes Received: 0
    If there is one thing that really bothers me about most Israelis that they are so full of shit.
    The jewish ppl were supposed to be on of the nations who got the most racism in the past and still many of them talk about how Nazi's were stupid and sick and then act kinda similar towards the Arabs.
    Im not saying Israel is like the Nazi's at all.
    But a lot of youth are talking like that and also older ppl.
    Really drives me nuts and some of it is because of our "fabulous" rappers.

    Anywho, near my town we have this most Arabic village which really shows how muslims, jews and christians can live together in peace.
    Its really nice and you can really see how each culture affects the other.
     
  14. mental invalid

    mental invalid Dirty Dozen Crew

    Joined: May 11, 2001 Messages: 13,050 Likes Received: 8
    so whats the general consensus over there TB??


    i mean all i get is our ass backward media spin on it....


    what is the general feeling over there???

    fabulous rappers???
     
  15. Tbious One

    Tbious One Junior Member

    Joined: Nov 2, 2002 Messages: 111 Likes Received: 0
    lol.
    They are like fachist media toys rappers.
    Anywho, most Israelis are all about Self Pride.
    They want to see only half of the picture.
    But actually its the otherway around in Europe and sometimes in the states.
    I think its also because our speakers for the media around the world are the worst.
    The Palestinians have people who graduated Oxford Uni. with good english and whom are qualified to talk in the media.
    Most of our speakers, in my opinion, are either army ppl or stupid politicians. In most cases they all have terrible english (including grammer,accent and vocabulary).

    Anywho, our economic situation is REALLY BAD so a lot of ppl are also concerned about that...

    What are the opinions about this in the states or wherever you are from:cool:
     
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