Israel begins to make concessions..

Israeli Cabinet OKs settlement withdrawals

Final route of separation barrier also approved

Sunday, February 20, 2005 Posted: 1:39 PM EST (1839 GMT)

JERUSALEM (AP) -- Israel's Cabinet gave final approval Sunday to the government's planned withdrawal from Gaza and four West Bank settlements, marking the first time an Israeli government decided to dismantle Jewish settlements on land claimed by the Palestinians for a future state.

Speaking to American Jewish leaders hours after the withdrawal plan was approved, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said that it was the most difficult decision he has ever made.

Calling the move "historic," he said it would "determine the future of the state of Israel."

Sharon signed an order making it illegal for Israelis to be in Gaza and northern West Bank after July 20, a government official said.

The Cabinet also approved the final route of Israel's separation barrier in the West Bank, initially constructed to keep out Palestinian attackers but increasingly seen as a blueprint for a final border between Israel and a future Palestinian state. Expected to run about 425 miles, the barrier is about one-third complete.

With Sunday's twin votes, Sharon's government began charting Israel's final borders unilaterally, something none of his predecessors have attempted since Israel captured the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem in the 1967 Mideast war.

Sharon, a former patron of settlers, told Cabinet ministers that "it's not an easy day, it's not a happy day," but the withdrawal was vital for Israel's security.

Ministers voted 17-5 for the evacuation plan, sealing the political defeat of withdrawal opponents seeking to put the plan to a national referendum. The evacuation of about 9,000 settlers will begin in July and take two months.

The government plans to allocate $871 million for the settlers, with compensation depending on the size of a family, whether it owns or rents, what it owns and how long it has lived in the settlement.

Under the order Sharon signed Sunday, those settlers not leaving by July 20 face removal by force. Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz told the Cabinet that thousands of troops would participate in dismantling the settlements.

Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu led the five opponents of the Gaza withdrawal, all ministers from Sharon's Likud Party.

Netanyahu said he could not support a withdrawal without a national referendum, but his challenge of the prime minister appeared part of a campaign to position himself for eventual Likud leadership.

Israel's vice premier, Shimon Peres, a longtime advocate of a withdrawal from Gaza, said Sunday's vote was historic.

"After 40 years in Gaza ... what have we gained?" Peres said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/20/...e.ap/index.html

Israel ends demolition of Palestinian houses

Thursday, February 17, 2005 Updated at 12:48 PM EST

Jerusalem — Israeli Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz ordered an end Thursday to the policy of demolishing the houses of Palestinians involved in attacks against Israelis, the military said.

Mr. Mofaz decided to “stop exercising the legal right to demolish terrorists' houses as a means of deterrence” after a recommendation from army chief of staff Lieutenant-General Moshe Yaalon, the statement said.

An internal army review of the policy called it ineffective, concluding that it enflamed anger and failed to deter attacks. The practice has been widely condemned by human-rights groups as collective punishment.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../International/

Israel frees 500 Palestinian prisoners

Monday, February 21, 2005 Posted: 5:30 AM EST (1030 GMT)

JERUSALEM (AP) -- Israel freed 500 Palestinian prisoners in a good-will gesture Monday, a day after the government gave final approval to a pullout from Gaza and a revised route of the West Bank separation barrier that would encompass at least 6 percent of land claimed by the Palestinians for a future state.

With the historic Cabinet vote, Israel began charting its final borders, bypassing negotiations and angering the Palestinians.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said the decision to leave Gaza and four settlements in the northern West Bank was the hardest he ever made, but would ensure a better future for Israel.

........................................

In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri called the planned Israeli pullout "a result of the heroic resistance of our people."

The vote for the barrier route was almost unanimous, 20-1 with one abstention. Several Cabinet ministers acknowledged that the barrier has implications far beyond the original security concept.

"The route of the fence is significant in terms of future negotiations over Israel's borders," said minister Tzipi Livni.

Army planners had to reroute the barrier closer to the old cease-fire line that delineates the West Bank after the Israeli Supreme Court ordered changes to reduce hardships on Palestinians.

The new route leaves 6 percent to 7 percent of the territory in Israeli hands, said Vice Premier Shimon Peres, about one-third of what the original route would have taken.

Some 15,000 to 17,000 Palestinians will also end up on the Israeli side of the barrier, officials said. Also, tens of thousands of Israeli settlers would continue to live on the Palestinian side of the barrier, as there is no decision to remove those enclaves.

Palestinians objected but complained they had no leverage to stop the construction.

"Israel is creating facts on the ground in the West Bank," said Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi. "Sharon wants payback in the West Bank for the disengagement from Gaza, particularly Jerusalem."

In the West Bank, Palestinian legislators from Abbas' Fatah movement agreed early Monday they would vote in favor of his new Cabinet, after a long debate in which many lawmakers demanded extensive changes.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/21/...d.ap/index.html

Amazing how things are actually turning around. I thought maybe Sharon would have to die too.

gotta love the caption:

Israeli border policemen arrest a Palestinian youth during a protest against Israeli security barrier in the West Bank village of Bil In February 20, 2005. Israel's cabinet met in a pivotal session expected to give the go-ahead to evacuate Jewish settlers from occupied Gaza and for the first time remove settlements from land where Palestinians want a state. REUTERS/Ammar Awad

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/16/...over/index.html

Israel returns Jericho to Palestinian control

Town is first of 5 West Bank cities to be handed over

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 Posted: 12:59 PM EST (1759 GMT)

JERICHO, West Bank (CNN) -- Israel transferred security control of the West Bank city of Jericho to the Palestinian Authority on Wednesday, but not without a brief delay in a formal signing ceremony.

Jericho is the first of five cities where the Palestinian Authority will be allowed to resume control.

Israeli forces began pulling back from Jericho earlier Wednesday, but the signing of a formal agreement to hand over control of the city was stalled at the last minute.

Without offering specifics, the Israel Defense Forces said there were "technical problems" but the problems were resolved during a meeting with Palestinian officials and the transfer document was formally signed.

Palestinian Authority negotiator Saeb Erakat said the formal signing was held up when an Israeli commander asserted that Israel's attorney general had to review the agreement.

He said Israeli negotiators hadn't mentioned such a document review during three weeks of talks.

Live television pictures showed an Israeli checkpoint being dismantled and Palestinian police setting up a new one. Two other checkpoints are scheduled to be taken apart in about a month.

The West Bank town of Tulkarem is set to be handed over next, according to understandings between the Israeli government and Palestinian Authority. Qalqilya, south of Tulkarem, will follow.

No date has been set for the handover of two remaining cities, Bethlehem and Ramallah.

Thats bullshit, Israel fought a bitchload of Arab nations for their independance, they whooped those motherfuckers good. All the countries in the region were against them, they still won. So, guess fucking what, Fuck PALESTINE, I want Israel to crush those motherfuckers ASAP.

that blind support is just what i expect from you.

i dont support either side ... i think the whole thing is bullshit. no one owns the land in the long run of things. fight over it all you want ..... or dont which is the better option to me !!!

but i heard the end of the world will be lead in by a big peace time in the holy land ... maybe this is a sign of that ....

uh, bob really means the united states won.

after all, we are the ones funding their wars.

well, just to counter bob, i'd like to restate my long standing 'FUCK ISRAEL' stance.

i'd also like to include a 'raspberry' and a 'na-na-na-boo-boo' as well as a donald-duck esq rump shaking.

Originally posted by bobthebuilder@Mar 17 2005, 12:12 AM

Thats bullshit, Israel fought a bitchload of Arab nations for their independance, they whooped those motherfuckers good. All the countries in the region were against them, they still won. So, guess fucking what, Fuck PALESTINE, I want Israel to crush those motherfuckers ASAP.

Quoted post

You're a doushbag.

Israel was formed by the united nations less than 60 years ago.

Progress is good, but giving the Israeli government and Sharon any credit is giving any other genocidal ruler credit for ending his own evil...

this is not the most credited web site, but of what I've read and learned, this story is the truth...Sharon was at the center of the descisions made here...

http://www.indictsharon.net/massacres-intro.shtml

THe brief, but read the story...

After two months of fighting, a cease-fire was negotiated through the mediation of United States Envoy Philip Habib. Under the terms of these negotiations, the PLO was to evacuate Beirut under the supervision of a multinational force deployed in the evacuated part of the town. The Habib Accords envisaged that West Beirut would subsequently be under the control of the Lebanese army, and the Palestinian leadership was given guarantees by the Americans regarding the security of civilians in the camps after their departure.

The evacuation of the PLO ended on 1 September 1982.

On 10 September 1982, the multinational forces left Beirut. The next day, Mr Ariel Sharon announced that “2,000 terrorists” had remained inside the Palestinian refugee camps around Beirut. On Wednesday 15 September, the day after the assassination of President-elect Bashir Gemayel, the Israeli army occupied West Beirut, “encircling and sealing” the camps of Sabra and Shatila, which were inhabited by Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, the entirety of armed resistors (more than 14,000 people) having evacuated Beirut and its suburbs.[3]

Historians and journalists agree that it was probably during a meeting between Ariel Sharon and Bashir Gemayel in Bikfaya on 12 September that an agreement was made authorising the “Lebanese forces” to “mop up” these Palestinian camps.[4] Mr Sharon had already announced, on 9 July 1982, his intention to send the Phalangist forces into West Beirut,[5] and in his autobiography he confirms having negotiated the operation during his meeting with Gemayel in Bikfaya.[6]

.....

During the course of the morning, shells were being fired down at the camps from higher elevations and Israeli snipers were shooting at people in the streets. By approximately midday, the Israeli military command gave the Phalangist militia the green light to enter the refugee camps. Shortly after 5 pm, a unit of approximately 150 Phalangists entered Shatila camp from the south and south-west.

At this point, General Drori telephoned Ariel Sharon and announced, “Our friends are advancing into the camps. We have co-ordinated their entry.” To which Sharon replied, “Congratulations! Our friends’ operation is approved.’’[11]

For the next 40 hours the Phalangist militia raped, killed, and injured a large number of unarmed civilians, mostly children, women and elderly people inside the “encircled and sealed“ camps. These actions, accompanied or followed by systematic roundups, backed or reinforced by the Israeli army, resulted in dozens of disappearances.

The Israeli army had full knowledge of what was going on in the camps right up until the morning of Saturday 18 September 1982, and its leaders were in continuous contact with the militia leaders who perpetrated the massacre. Yet they never intervened. Instead, they prevented civilians from escaping the camps and arranged for the camps to be illuminated throughout the night by flares launched into the sky from helicopters and mortars.

....

The count of victims varies between 700 (the official Israeli figure) and 3,500 (in the inquiry launched by the Israeli journalist Kapeliouk). The exact figure can never be determined because, in addition to the approximately 1,000 people who were buried in communal graves by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) or in the cemeteries of Beirut by members of their families, a large number of corpses were buried beneath bulldozed buildings by the militia members themselves. Also, particularly on 17 and 18 September, hundreds of people were carried away alive in trucks towards unknown destinations, never to return.

The victims and survivors of the massacres have never been deemed entitled to a formal investigation of the tragedy, whether in Lebanon, Israel, or elsewhere. After 400,000 Israelis took to the streets in protest once news of the massacre was broadcast by the international media, the Israeli parliament (Knesset) named a commission of inquiry, to be presided over by Mr Yitzhak Kahan, in September 1982. In spite of the limitations of the Commission’s mandate (limited because it was a political rather than a judicial mandate and because the voices and demands of the victims were completely ignored), the Commission concluded that the Minister of Defence was personally responsible for the massacres.[12]

Fuck Isreal.

when your ignorance is so obvious that you cannot spell a nation's name properly, you render your comment utterly ridiculous.

surprise surprise.

not all those nutty israelis are in favor of PEACE.

so, fuck em.

Israeli minister resigns over Gaza plan

Monday, May 2, 2005 Posted: 1018 GMT (1818 HKT)

Sharansky opposes the proposed Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Natan Sharansky, a member of the Israeli Cabinet known for his criticism of the Israeli government's dealings with the Palestinians, submitted his resignation Monday, his adviser confirmed to CNN.

The adviser said Sharansky wrote a letter to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announcing his resignation, which will take effect Wednesday, in protest at Sharon's Gaza disengagement plan.

"I would like to express my appreciation to Natan, not for his resignation -- I would be happy if he continued his role -- but I'd like to thank him and praise him for his work on the issues he was in charge of," Sharon said.

.so, get the fuck out of gaza and maybe we can all get on with life.

I dont get the point of your stories posted Symbols?

Are you trying to show Israel in a good light by posting this bullshit propaganda.

There is a new apartheid,and it has been happening for quite some time.

You will never see this on American Television. The suffering of the Palestinian people, Instead you will find a compelling story on nightline about a family of Israeli settlers who will lose their home when the withdraal thats already been delayed happens......wah-wah

hmmmmmmm. I wonder who's runnin the Media

Just Watch BBC people.......please

I dont see you posting anything about how Israel has already renigged on their word,and has delayed the withdrawal to August to comemorate a time of mourning for a destroyed temple in July. Israel,and our support in letting them do whatever the fuck they want is one of original reasons why we are the enemy in the Muslim world. For every american a small % of theyre hard earned tax dollars got to the Israeli Army and support this Apartheid. WTF is that bullshit.

Bob the builder,shut the fuck up you Zionistic Pig.

Free Palestine

Fuck Israel

^it's "reneged"..

fuck israel sounds good, but the

bloodshed falls almost directly on

the US support and certainly it's

veto history.

if selfishone could stop thinking about himself for a couple seconds, maybe he would realize that i am very well informed on this issue.

i support the palestinian people in their attempt to establish a sovereign nation.

and yes, fuck israel does sopund good for your soundbytes

(this is PROPAGANDA too)

but it is not that simple.

read about the establishment of the current middle east.

many more people than just some jews are to blame.

why does their always have to be a fucking agenda to debate???

this place can be about MORE than arguing, and ALSO about DISCUSSING..

IF people are willing to keep an open mind about some things.

besides, saying FUCK YALL is not going to suddenly solve ANY problem.

can't i just post some goddamn news?

why don't some of you just try to step back and look for a bigger context or a broader picture?

the one thing that i cringe hearing is people who blame

israel for everything and always quote sharon saying

'we the israeli's control america' or whatever he said.

drives me nuts.

edwin black either has his new book out, or it's coming out..

i don't know how much detail there will be for specifically

israeli/palestinian issues, it may be iraq intensive..

anyhow, it should be amazing..the history of the region type of

thing with mammoth research behind it.

yes, blaming one group of people for the state of the nation, the world, whatever, is naive.

First off. I'm not tryin to argue with anyone "SYMBOLS". This thread and your news posts are basically what the Mainstream Media covers about these issues,and its frustrating to see the same biased news reports here on 12 oz.

You say that you are just posting some "goddamn news",well post some news about both sides,and whats going on in Palestine, and the horrible things Israel does instead of just the good deeds which have to be forced on them by the rest of the world.

KING BLING thank you for posting your story,that is more of the truth that is never covered in the general media.

You will see barely any covereage of this in the American media if any

Israel to be sued by slain British film makers family

It emerged today that the family of the award-winning British film maker shot dead in Gaza by Israeli occupation forces (IOF) is taking civil action against the Israeli government.

James Miller was making a documentary about Palestinian children in the Rafah refugee camp when he was murdered by an Israeli soldier in May 2003.

The 34-year-old Miller and his colleagues were attempting to leave the home of a Palestinian family in Rafah on May 2. The group attests they were carrying a white flag and called out to troops stationed nearby to inform them that they were British journalists.

As they walked towards an armoured personnel carrier, a soldier opened fire and seconds later aimed a second shot at reporters, striking the father-of-two in the neck between his body armour and helmet.

The officer who fired the deadly shot is a first lieutenant in the Bedouin Desert Reconnaissance Battalion and was commanding the unit at the time of the killing.

He was due to face a disciplinary hearing but was then acquitted by Brigadier General Guy Tzur, the head of the army's southern command.

A spokeswoman for the family said that Israeli lawyers and human rights lawyer Avigdor Feldman issued a writ yesterday on behalf of the family against the state of Israel in connection with his death two years ago.

yeah, good luck with that lawsuit

:rolleyes:

You know what, I never thought to blame Israel for the "state of the world".

But now that you mention it we probably wouldn't have beef in the Middle East if it weren't for Israel and our support for them.

Fuck Israel.

yes, its good to see a thread on israel has been started. i have a few things to add that are key to understanding some of the new developments taking place.

first off, a. ariel sharon is sincere about puling out of gaza in june/july this year, and if as read above he also plans to evacuate 4 settlements in northern gaza then well and good; even though the p'stinians have abosultly no say(they welcome egyptian envolvement, however sceptical) they cant say no can they? in the wider scheme of things gaza is of absolutly no economic/strategic interest to israel.

b. the devil is always in the detail. even though israel is commited to a freese on increasing the size of settlements in the west bank, the territorial size of settlements is more often double that of actual housing settlements, so while it seems sure that gaza will lead to increaded migration to the west bank, settlements themselves 'won't increase'.

it's not going to give up greater west bank clearly. its almost logistically impossible becuase communities I and P are so entrenced and intertwind together, however unequal an arrangement it might be.

c.the wall is a force to be reckoned with. this will be built, regardless of court ruling or u.s pressure., isolating p'stnns on both sides; if you think it being built arround the west bank, wrong, its being built Within the west bank, almost entirely annexing jerusalem, in particular all of the holy sites, to israel.

i went to a talk on zionism (by John Rose)last week. many people were there from the international solidarity movement who had spent time in p'stn and the outlook with pretty bleak, despite these new developenmts.

being heavily critical of the motives of zionism has to be distinguished from being anti semetic, and anti jewish.

zionism is the apparatus of israely state and the u.s. ; and right to return for palst'nn refugees 'should' be a central issue.

ok, (said enough) a few links ive seen recently,

year in the arab israeli conflict -radio piece behind the political scenes.

John Rose - Israel: the hijack state - article in the guardian

photos,

Some intersting areal photographs of settlements

these areal photos are good too

dumb ass.

if you think this news isn't good enough, post some of your own moron.

i am not here to please everyone.

if you don't like the tone of the thread, find some shit and change it.

don't come crying to me because of media bias and what you perceive as a slanted thread.

maybe if you had more history on the site or actually read some things i wrote you'd know that I SUPPORT PALESTINE.

Okay I will

Israeli forces use new deadly weapons

Israeli occupation forces (IOF) have started to use new weapons to disperse Palestinian protestors participating in anti-Israel marches, Palestinian sources unveiled.

According to the Palestinian sources, the Israeli troops used a mini-gun that fires round-shaped tiny metal bullets, able to penetrate the human body in addition to releasing a nerve-racking gas from an auxiliary barrel.

It has been unveiled that the Israeli troops used those deadly weapons to disperse Palestinian protestors, demonstrating against the Israeli so-called Separation Barrier.

Anti-Israel marches have been staged over the past few days by Palestinian residents in Bala'een village to the west of Ramallah.

Five Palestinians, including a cameraman working for Associated Press, were wounded during the protests after the Israeli forces fired those bullets at them.

Scores of Palestinian civilians are currently being treated for suffocation they sustained after they inhaled nerve-agitating gases the Israeli forces released at them from a very short distance, the sources added.

SUPRISE SUPRISE!!!

Posted on Wed, May. 04, 2005

ISRAEL FREEZES HANDOVER OF WEST BANK TOWNS

JOSEF FEDERMAN

Associated Press

JERUSALEM - Israel will not hand over any more West Bank towns to Palestinian control because militants are not being disarmed, the Israeli Security Cabinet decided Wednesday, despite a truce pledge to transfer five towns.

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz charged that the Palestinians are not fulfilling their commitment to collect weapons from militants in the two towns Israel transferred under terms of a Feb. 8 cease-fire. He was speaking at a meeting of Israel's security Cabinet.

Interior Minister Ophir Pines-Paz, who took part in the meeting, said the security body agreed with Mofaz's decision.

The step added tension to an already shaky atmosphere surrounding the truce, though it has led to a significant reduction in the violence that plagued the area for more than four years. Rebuffing Israeli and U.S. demands, the new Palestinian Preventive Security chief said Wednesday that he would not order the disarming of militants.

In the weeks after the truce was declared, Israel turned over control of Jericho and Tulkarem to Palestinian security, but held up turning over Bethlehem, Qalqiliya and Ramallah, charging Palestinian violations.

Senior Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said the Palestinian Authority was never formally notified of the Israeli freeze. "It's a very unfortunate approach and decision," he told The Associated Press.

In Gaza, meanwhile, the newly appointed Palestinian security chief in charge of reining in militants said Wednesday he has no plans to disarm them, but asked the armed groups not to flaunt their weapons.

Brig. Gen. Rashid Abu Shbak also said a long-promised crackdown on crime would only begin after local elections are held this week, to avoid allegations that the security services are trying to intimidate candidates or influence the voting.

Israel and the United States have repeatedly demanded that the Palestinian Authority dismantle the armed groups. Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has avoided large-scale confrontation, opting instead for persuasion and compromise.

Israel and the United States urged the Palestinian Authority once again on Tuesday to dismantle militant groups.

Abu Shbak was unmoved.

"We are not going to have any confrontation with anyone," he told reporters. "We will not reach this point, and we will not allow anyone to bring us to this point."

He urged the Palestinian groups to act responsibly, cautioning that they could bring bloodshed upon the Palestinian people should they not.

Fear of bloodshed was also on Abbas' mind Tuesday when he attacked Israel for pressuring him to confront militants.

"Israelis want Palestinian blood to be spilled, and we don't accept that," the Palestinian government news agency, WAFA, quoted Abbas as saying. Still, he said, "the Palestinian Authority is acting to prevent chaos and a proliferation of guns on the streets and in public places."

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has said Israel intends to hold on to major West Bank settlement blocs, and over the past year, has received backing on this from the United States.

With peacemaking at an impasse, Sharon has planned a unilateral evacuation of Israeli settlers and military from the Gaza Strip and four small northern West Bank settlements this summer.

um, no...no surprises here.

some people, no matter what fucking nationality, aren't interested in solving conflict.

i was looking through 'crossfire' today

and buried in the back pages are reams of threads on israel, and palestine, including one thread titled "fuck israel"

take a look through before you make any more accusations